Should China be counted separately from the rest of the OS markets?

[Kvikk Lunsj]

Yeah, agree. One can't just break up the OS vs Dom just because it's taking their favorite film a notch or two down on the OS/WW Box office totem pole. If we start separating a particular country from the rest of the OS gross, then we might as well do it for all of the major continents. 

 

Mexico is consider overseas but it is part of North America. 

[peludo]

Yeah, agree. One can't just break up the OS vs Dom just because it's taking their favorite film a notch or two down on the OS/WW Box office totem pole. If we start separating a particular country from the rest of the OS gross, then we might as well do it for all of the major continents. 

 

With all my respect, I think you do not get it. There is not any other market that 15 years ago was grossing 5-10 million per movie at most and now is looking to outgross US as the biggest market for big blockbusters. If India or Russia were becoming so big we could start the debate you say, but that is not the situation. This is a very special case. The fact is that China is becoming so absurdly big year after year that any OS/WW comparison not just with 10 years ago films, but with 3-4 years ago films are absurd. F7 has increased a 500% relative to F6 in China in just 2 years. Or F7 is grossing in China more than 4 films of the Furious franchise WW, one of them released just 6 years ago. That is not normal. Maybe within 2 years we wil be looking at $500m for F8. Any WW comparison without this differentiation become unfair and absurd.

 

And I do not want to make an alternative WW list without China. Just to split in 3 numbers instead 2 to have more information. If something is able to make $500m in China, good for it in the same way than if it is able to make $200 in Japan or $100 in Korea. It is just that the Chinese case of enormous figures is becoming too usual to ignore it.

 

Said this, each one can make what he/she want. I will start to split the figures.

[druv10]

With all my respect, I think you do not get it. There is not any other market that 15 years ago was grossing 5-10 million per movie at most and now is looking to outgross US as the biggest market for big blockbusters. If India or Russia were becoming so big we could start the debate you say, but that is not the situation. This is a very special case. The fact is that China is becoming so absurdly big year after year that any OS/WW comparison not just with 10 years ago films, but with 3-4 years ago films are absurd. F7 has increased a 500% relative to F6 in China in just 2 years. Or F7 is grossing in China more than 4 films of the Furious franchise WW, one of them released just 6 years ago. That is not normal. Maybe within 2 years we wil be looking at $500m for F8. Any WW comparison without this differentiation become unfair and absurd.

 

And I do not want to make an alternative WW list without China. Just to split in 3 numbers instead 2 to have more information. If something is able to make $500m in China, good for it in the same way than if it is able to make $200 in Japan or $100 in Korea. It is just that the Chinese case of enormous figures is becoming too usual to ignore it.

 

Said this, each one can make what he/she want. I will start to split the figures.

 

Where do you draw the line? Personally, I would wait until grosses reach 500M+.

[eXtacy]

Where do you draw the line? Personally, I would wait until grosses reach 500M+.

 

Avatar 2 says hello

[BadAtGender]

Studios get 25% of gross in China while they collect 40-50% in other OS markets, maybe divide Chinese grosses by 2 and compare the re-calculated WW numbers to pre-Chinese-boom blockbusters WW numbers. If you understand what I mean.

 

I suppose that raises an interesting question about why we track box office numbers.

 

Do we care more about how much the studio makes or do we care more about how many people see the film?

[druv10]

Avatar 2 says hello

 

It's Avatar so we don't know when it'll come out. 

[peludo]

Where do you draw the line? Personally, I would wait until grosses reach 500M+.

I would say right now. There will be no difference in the results. i do not have problems to start to say something like this (being OS figure every dollar grossed outside NA excepting China):

 

F7: 350 DOM / 700 OS / 350 CHINA / 1,400 WW

TA: 623 DOM / 805 OS / 90 CHINA / 1,518 WW

TA2: 550 DOM / 800 OS / 250 CHINA / 1,600 WW

Avatar: 760 DOM / 1.827 OS / 200 CHINA / 2,787 WW

TF4: 245 DOM / 526 OS / 320 CHINA / 1,091 WW

DH2: 381 DOM / 900 OS / 60 CHINA / 1,341 WW

ROTK: 377 DOM / 732 OS / 10 CHINA / 1,119 WW

 

And so on... I really do not see the problem with this. it is just a format problem, nothing more.

[Fullbuster]

No, it's an OS territory, it's outside the US, so that would make no sense.

OS doesn't mean "weak territory", just that is abroad.

[Gokai Red]

Then change "overseas" to "rest of world" or something similar. So BO would be reported like: DOM/CH/ROW/WW, so in F7's case (as an example), 350/360/690/1400. Simple enough right?

[Warhorse]

I suppose that raises an interesting question about why we track box office numbers.

 

Do we care more about how much the studio makes or do we care more about how many people see the film?

Or, how about how much the tickets in China are compared to the UK? 

 

Mexico is consider overseas but it is part of North America. 

Personally, Mexico and the middle americas should be their own entity. I actually have old school books that depict exactly that. 

[Goffe]

I agree with Noctis here, China exploding so fast makes it really hard to compare total OS numbers. A prime example is Transformers, AOE's 845m make us believe that the franchise is still on the rise, when that's not actually true. It's like comparing adjusted numbers, except that it won't take 15-20 years to make a comparison invalid, just around 2 years or so.

[Walt Disney]

After thinking about it, it doesn't really make any sense. China only releases a certain number of American films a year. Therefore, if we adopted Noctis' system, there would be a lot of Dom/0/OS/WW . There are way too many zeros in the China column to justify tracking films in that manner.

 

The Chinese box office offers limited information. It doesn't tell us which foreign film was best liked in China. It only tell us which of the limited number of films released there did the best. There just isn't enough value to be gained by using Noctis' system. The only advantage is that really lazy people don't have to look at the BOM country breakdown to find the China number. But, in reality, it makes sense to have the domestic number (the number from the home country of the film) and the OS number (the number from all of the other foreign countries), then a combined WW number.

 

 

[Gokai Red]

Exactly what Goffe said. China is making the WW numbers of films rise so quickly that it is becoming extremely unfair to compare two films that were released even 2 or 3 years ago, let alone a decade or more. Obviously right now, while the vast majority of China blockbusters are grossing in the 100-200 range, a relatively small amount, it may seem unnecessary. But do we have to wait until the DOM/OS shares of films become even more lopsided and China is constantly and consistently outgrossing DOM to do something about it? We know that it is coming, and it is coming very soon. 

[peludo]

I would say right now. There will be no difference in the results. i do not have problems to start to say something like this (being OS figure every dollar grossed outside NA excepting China):

 

F7: 350 DOM / 700 ROW / 350 CHINA / 1,400 WW

TA: 623 DOM / 805 ROW / 90 CHINA / 1,518 WW

TA2: 550 DOM / 800 ROW / 250 CHINA / 1,600 WW

Avatar: 760 DOM / 1.827 ROW / 200 CHINA / 2,787 WW

TF4: 245 DOM / 526 ROW / 320 CHINA / 1,091 WW

DH2: 381 DOM / 900 ROW / 60 CHINA / 1,341 WW

ROTK: 377 DOM / 732 ROW / 10 CHINA / 1,119 WW

 

Being ROW: Rest Of the World

 

And so on... I really do not see the problem with this. it is just a format problem, nothing more.

Fixed

[peludo]

After thinking about it, it doesn't really make any sense. China only releases a certain number of American films a year. Therefore, if we adopted Noctis' system, there would be a lot of Dom/0/OS/WW . There are way too many zeros in the China column to justify tracking films in that manner.

 

The Chinese box office offers limited information. It doesn't tell us which foreign film was best liked in China. It only tell us which of the limited number of films released there did the best. There just isn't enough value to be gained by using Noctis' system. The only advantage is that really lazy people don't have to look at the BOM country breakdown to find the China number. But, in reality, it makes sense to have the domestic number (the number from the home country of the film) and the OS number (the number from all of the other foreign countries), then a combined WW number.

But it is not a matter that BOM have to change its list. It is just to discuss here. China releases nearly every big blockbuster, which is what people are really interested on in this forums. Maybe some people are interested in some other small runs, but when big movies and big runs come, all of us are here discussing.

[Walt Disney]

But it is not a matter that BOM have to change its list. It is just to discuss here. China releases nearly every big blockbuster, which is what people are really interested on in this forums. Maybe some people are interested in some other small runs, but when big movies and big runs come, all of us are here discussing.

 

That's a good point. I just think OS is too hard to compare from year to year to begin with. I don't think separating China from the equation makes that any easier.

[Gokai Red]

OS also changes and fluctuates, but not at the stupid speed that China by itself is increasing. We can still reasonably compare non-China grosses from this year to non-China grosses of films 5-8 years ago, exchange rates aside, and still have decent comparisons.

[Noctis]

And did I say that China should be separated now? No. I said it's gonna take a few years until it does, but it's gonna happen where China's top grossing films will outgross the ones in America.

[Warhorse]

Eh, the title change is very offensive. I think the thread should be locked now. OP is having a meltdown.

[Avatree]

Noctis on his manperiod