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Noctis

Should China be counted separately from the rest of the OS markets?

Should China's grosses be separated from Overseas' gross?  

44 members have voted

  1. 1. Should China's grosses be separated from Overseas' gross?

    • Yes, China should be separate from Overseas Grosses, starting as soon as possible
      14
    • Yes, China should be separate from Overseas Grosses, but after ___ amount of time
      3
    • Yes, China should be separate from Overseas Grosses, but after a movie grosses ___ amount of money
      1
    • No, China should not be separate from Overseas Grosses
      17


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The Futurist    22,045

Then, given Frozen grossed $250M in Japan, it should be viewed separately as well.

No because Frozen in Japan happens once every ten moons.

Us tentpoles doing stupid numbers in China is/will happen every year for multiple tentpoles with even larger numbers than Frozen in Japan.

It s like the Skyfall number in UK, it s just a movie overperforming like crazy, very rare occurence, not the rule.

Or Untouchables in France.

China s bo is becoming a Monster we don t even know what will be its final size.

300m in China, how many tickets it represent, does anybody know ?

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Noctis    21,513

Until China is listed as a NA country, then it is an international market.  Pretty simple.

 

What on earth does NA have ANYTHING to do with China?! 

 

Then, given Frozen grossed $250M in Japan, it should be viewed separately as well.

 

This makes absolutely no sense and you've just proved my point.

 

Japan is a stable market. China is growing exponentially by the day. 

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PDC1987    2,826

Irrelevant.

 

Domestic is domestic. International is international.

 

China is an international market. It is part of the International box office. Separating it for arbitrary box office nerd reasons will not change that.

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redfirebird2008    18,235

People talk about China separately anyway, so it doesn't really matter. The real question is how much longer North American box office will be deemed important enough to be talked of as equal to the rest of the world.

 

Probably as long as Hollywood deems it necessary. They love the opening weekend publicity.

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RaidensSword    826

I will make this easy for you

You dont have to make anything easy for me. I think that's a weak argument to separate it from OS results. It's on the rise in China which is a big part of the overseas market, therefore it's results should be included as part of that. Like I said before, some movies get the bulk of their profit from Europe and don't make much money in China or Asia, so should we separate Europe from WW?

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Goffe    8,953

You dont have to make anything easy for me. 

See, I don't believe you because you didn't understand what I said.

what you are understanding: I want China gross separated because they're huge

what I actually said: China gross must be separated because they expanding really fast, you can't compare two big movies more than one year apart without taking China gross out of the equation.

 

Studios are already doing this, why shouldn't Box Office dedicated websites? 

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PDC1987    2,826

What does expansion have to do with the fact that China is part of the international box office?

 

Box office grosses aren't about "comparing one film with another a year later." They are factual numbers that are reported daily, nothing more.

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RaidensSword    826

See, I don't believe you because you didn't understand what I said.

what you are understanding: I want China gross separated because they're huge

what I actually said: China gross must be separated because they expanding really fast, you can't compare two big movies more than one year apart without taking China gross out of the equation.

Studios are already doing this, why shouldn't Box Office dedicated websites?

And I dont think you understand my point. I dont agree that China should be taken out of the equation because it is part of the equation. Nothing 'must' be separated. You can compare them, you say it made X amount internationally and when you see the breakdown of each country you can see where it came from, including China. I dont see the need for it to simplified any more than that. Edited by RaidensSword

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Goffe    8,953

What does expansion have to do with the fact that China is part of the international box office?

 

Box office grosses aren't about "comparing one film with another a year later." They are factual numbers that are reported daily, nothing more.

by the same logic we shouldn't have USA gross separated from the rest, it should be called "Earth BO gross".

Edited by Goffe
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kowhite    14,210

by the same logic we shouldn't have USA gross separated from the rest, it should be called "Earth BO gross".

In all fairness, we don't report USA grosses versus the rest. We report USA and Canada plus...a few other places...versus everywhere else.

It's how we do it.

It don't matter. They invented the asterisk for a reason. And God knows well be asterisking the hell out of foreign with foreign grosses on any movie that gets a China release.

In other words...it's not like anyone is going to try and hide the China grosses. You'll know.

Edited by kowhite

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Gokai Red    741

As we go further and further into the decade, China's grosses are taking up an increasingly large percentage of movies' OS grosses. As far as I know however, it was not until Transformers: Age of Extinction and now Furious 7 broke numerous records in China and exceeded the DOM grosses that the debate to separate China really heated up. Within the next few years, China will have exceeded DOM to be the world's largest movie-going market. Should Box Office sites separate China's grosses from the rest of the Overseas Grosses?

 

For now, this topic is only in its first edition. As time goes by, I will compile a list of movie's grosses with and without China, as well as possibly edit the post to contain reasons for or against the proposed split.

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peludo    3,908

Well, China is, by definition, an overseas market, so we can not separate from it. But we could create an split of OS figures. Something like OS = China + RW (Rest of the World). Now, we make predictions saying DOM / OS / WW. We could start saying DOM / RW / China / WW. OS will remain being OS, and that includes China. That can not be changed. But I think that to make fair comparisons it is becoming, at very least, recommended.

 

This has been a bit controversial debate in main Chinese thread since F7 explosion. And I understand the point of those who defend to keep the current model, but I think that if we want to compare WW grosses we should start to make this distinction. One can ask why just China and not other expanding markets like, maybe, Mexico or South Korea. You can have several answers. The fact that nearly every blockbuster released in China is making over $100m, iconical figure to call a blockbuster in US too. Or maybe the fact that the China all time list is changing monthly (the top 20 has 7 movies released in 2014 and, for the moment, 4 released in 2015, excluding Avengers, which will be on that list tomorrow or on Sunday).

 

And the perspective that within few years, probably every blockbuster will be grossing as much or more money than in US. The gap is making closer faster than many had thought. In 2012, we had Avengers (623 DOM / 90 China). In 2015 we will probably have TA2 making 450 DOM / 250 China. The gap has narrowed from 530 to 200 in just 3 years, being Avengers the biggest franchise in US right now. And, for example, the predictions say that Kung Fu Panda 3 has chances to be the biggest animated movie ever in a single market next year (some predictions give it the $500m chance in China).

 

WW list will become a crazy joke in few years and we will need this distinction to understand it.

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POTUS    4,255

no, not separate from OS

but it should have it as its own region within OS. Like Latin America, Europe, Asia and now China

Of course its apart of asia but the numbers will be evened out.  could be 150-300m for each of the 4 big territories for big movies

then you have oceania and Africa as smaller territories

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Quigley    1,269

See, I don't believe you because you didn't understand what I said.

what you are understanding: I want China gross separated because they're huge

what I actually said: China gross must be separated because they expanding really fast, you can't compare two big movies more than one year apart without taking China gross out of the equation.

 

Studios are already doing this, why shouldn't Box Office dedicated websites? 

 

This argument implies that when China reaches a saturation level with minimal levels of growth (like NA), we should reincorporate its grosses into OS because at that point it will be possible to compare two big movies more than a year apart.

 

So why bother?

Edited by Quigley

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Goffe    8,953

This argument implies that when China reaches a saturation level with minimal levels of growth (like NA), we should reincorporate its grosses into OS because at that point it will be possible to compare two big movies more than a year apart.

So why bother?

it will take like 15 years, at least, to reach the saturation point, it's far far away, that if China doesn't somehow collapse.

It should still be separated even if China reach the saturation point.

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Quigley    1,269

It should still be separated even if China reach the saturation point.

Then we're right to think that you're argument is basically: "China should be separate cuz grosses are huge" because even when it stops growing so rapidly, you still think grosses should be separate.

Edited by Quigley

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Noctis    21,513

No, and the mere notion is completely retarded. China is not part of the domestic box office. It's overseas, it's international. End.

 

 

Ask me if I care.

 

Chinese grosses will always be international box office grosses. I don't see why this is even a discussion.

 

 

Sorry I don;'t usually say stuff like this but this is a really dumb thread.  

 

Is China in North America?

 

 

After thinking about it, it doesn't really make any sense. China only releases a certain number of American films a year. Therefore, if we adopted Noctis' system, there would be a lot of Dom/0/OS/WW . There are way too many zeros in the China column to justify tracking films in that manner.

 

The Chinese box office offers limited information. It doesn't tell us which foreign film was best liked in China. It only tell us which of the limited number of films released there did the best. There just isn't enough value to be gained by using Noctis' system. The only advantage is that really lazy people don't have to look at the BOM country breakdown to find the China number. But, in reality, it makes sense to have the domestic number (the number from the home country of the film) and the OS number (the number from all of the other foreign countries), then a combined WW number.

 

 

Well, I think it's a pretty silly topic.  It's a huge market that grew quicker than anyone thought.  I see no reason to take it out of the international equation.

 

 

Well, there's enough of you who seem to see Noctis' side.  I think it's kind of ridiculous, but carry on.

 

 

Why should China be separated from the other international markets when it's an international market? Domestic is called domestic because Hollywood is an American industry. Simple as that.

 

SmoothnessOnTheCatwalk.gif

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Gokai Red    741

I compiled a list of the highest grossing films OS and took away their China grosses for comparison purposes. 
 

Edit: Holy crap. How do I copy and paste a chart from Microsoft Word without the formatting getting all messed up?

Edited by Gokai Red
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Olive    23,428

I compiled a list of the highest grossing films OS and took away their China grosses for comparison purposes. 

 

Edit: Holy crap. How do I copy and paste a chart from Microsoft Word without the formatting getting all messed up?

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