Plain Old Tele Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Barnack said: The movie is told from a Spartan narrator trying to build a myth in history and inspiring/convincing is city to go to war, that guy telling that story is yes being hyperbolic, hyper-patriotic, diminishing of the other cities place and role, etc.. It is in part the concept of the movie. I don't think it paints much more than what a Spartian soldier talking about how it wanted that moment to be romanced and remembered. Does the audience will see it like that, even if the movie is really clear that it is an unreliable narrator with magical beast, giants, and showing that everything we saw was the way it was told by a soldier ?, I don't know. If you mean it's told from the perspective of a homophobic nine-year-old, then sure. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valonqar Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, PDC1987 said: Bullshit. The Spartans were depicted as raging homphobes in 300 even though their society accepted homosexuality and they literally screwed each other as part of their training. Now that you and @Telemachos mentioned it, I googled and you are right. It was a masculine thing to do. All warriors, Alexander the Great, etc practiced it because they wouldn't be considered manly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenedictL11 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 hours ago, ban1o said: Get out is really dropping now. Disappointing. I expected more from it. Guess the hype wore off. Child, bye! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainiac5 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, BenedictL11 said: Child, bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, PDC1987 said: Bullshit. The Spartans were depicted as raging homphobes in 300 even though their society accepted homosexuality and they literally screwed each other as part of their training. I'd never dodge THAT draft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 300 is one of the most overwhelmingly boring movies I've ever seen. Zack Snyder has the storytelling capabilities of a 12-year old. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPZVGOS Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 34 minutes ago, Telemachos said: If you mean it's told from the perspective of a homophobic nine-year-old, then sure. You are utilizing the value-system of contemporary American liberalism to judge historic events of Antiquity. Back then, there was no such thing as homophobia, human rights, sexism, racism, unemployment, polls and everything else you understand today. Hell, not even Christianity had been invented yet. Back then, when a state/tribe/empire/race wanted to steal the other peoples' resources and/or labor, they did not need moralistic propaganda to justify their actions. For example, Xerxes would just say: "Fuck these poor, eccentric weirdos the Greeks, let's take them over, just like we did to the Egyptians, Phoenicians, Babylonians and so on and so on..." The "homosexuality" of the Spartans was nothing like the homosexuality we know today, it was yet another social custom designed to maximize the efficiency of the infantry phalanx by strengthening the bonds between the soldiers. The information relayed from that movie has nothing to do with the screenwriters/producers/director of the movie. Most of it is taken straight from Herodotus himself (the father of History) who was Greek but actually a subject of the Persian Empire (as around half of Greeks were at the time) All the claims made about the Spartans in that movie are corroborated by multiple ancient sources that have survived to this day (both Greek and non-Greek alike) In fact most of what we know about the Spartans comes from their most bitter rivals, the Athenians (who bothered taking records of things) including Thucydides (chronicler of the seminal account of the Pelloponesian War) who was an Athenian General. To give you a clue of what that means, imagine, that all information left to humanity 2000 years from now about the USA of the 20th Century, came from the Soviets (lol) or vice versa. But, like I said earlier, back in Antiquity, hypocrisy was much less developed than it is today, hence we find much more consistent accounts between the different historians. In any case, the depiction of the Spartans in "300" is if anything, watered down, in reality, they were even more macho, ruthless and brutal. Just to give you one example, a Spartan mother is alleged to have killed her own son when she suspected that he showed cowardice in battle. When in the movie the Queens says: "Return with your shield, or on it" This is exactly what Spartan women would tell to their men before battle, it's not dramatization. The same goes for other lines you hear in the movie like "Then we will fight in the shade" or "Come and get them"? These are reports coming from *literally* eyewitnesses! In fact, Herodotus says that he had asked and learned the names of every single one of the 300 Spartans who fought in that battle, and he does in fact name several of them in his book. In that book, he also lists the entire family line of Leonidas, going back centuries to prove that he was in fact descended from the very first rulers of Sparta etc... Forget the stylized action and surreal background, the essence of that movie is correct, ask any serious historian if you may. There are several lectures available on youtube by very good American historians that will confirm what I am telling you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Old Tele Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I'm very familiar with Herodotus, Thucycides, and Greek history. I'm of Greek descent and I also studied Classics in college. The movie (and the graphic novel) are a pastiche of some of the most popular tropes about the Spartans, written with little depth or concern for history. And you know what? That's fine, it's a fictionalized, mythologized take on things. The problem isn't hat it's ahistorical, it's that it's neither good drama nor a good movie. In fact, like most Frank Miller and Zack Snyder creations, it's an immature vision of what manly action should be: shallow and loud. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPZVGOS Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, Telemachos said: I'm very familiar with Herodotus, Thucycides, and Greek history. I'm of Greek descent and I also studied Classics in college. The movie (and the graphic novel) are a pastiche of some of the most popular tropes about the Spartans, written with little depth or concern for history. And you know what? That's fine, it's a fictionalized, mythologized take on things. The problem isn't hat it's ahistorical, it's that it's neither good drama nor a good movie. In fact, like most Frank Miller and Zack Snyder creations, it's an immature vision of what manly action should be: shallow and loud. D'you wanna know my real take on "300" Here goes, in brief: The movie was green-lit at the height of US-Israel threats against Iran, so the history of the Greco-Persian Wars suited the age-old East-West dichotomy narrative, and could also present Iran (Persia) as the villains. I believe that this was the central motivation behind the movie. Unwittingly however, Snyder actually captured much of the historical context of the Persian Wars themselves during which the Persian Empire resembled the current US alliance system (that dominates much of the planet) and the Greeks who resisted the Persian Empire were very much the hapless underdogs (remember that many Greeks actually fought on the side of the Persians back then a bit like Ukraine has sided with NATO and against Russia in recent years) who had to overcome a numerical, economic and technological disadvantage in order to survive as independent states. I think that Snyder is probably unaware of this, but the modern-version of the Persian Empire, would in fact be the US-NATO-assorted allies system, and it would in fact be Russia-Iran that are the heroic and noble resistors. On the historical events themselves, the movie is in fact quite faithful, sans the the peculiar aesthetics of Miller's graphic novel who are designed to spice things up for the consumption of the masses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlborn Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 300 is fun bullshit. Nothing more nor less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plain Old Tele Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, PPZVGOS said: D'you wanna know my real take on "300" Here goes, in brief: The movie was green-lit at the height of US-Israel threats against Iran, so the history of the Greco-Persian Wars suited the age-old East-West dichotomy narrative, and could also present Iran (Persia) as the villains. I believe that this was the central motivation behind the movie. Unwittingly however, Snyder actually captured much of the historical context of the Persian Wars themselves during which the Persian Empire resembled the current US alliance system (that dominates much of the planet) and the Greeks who resisted the Persian Empire were very much the hapless underdogs (remember that many Greeks actually fought on the side of the Persians back then a bit like Ukraine has sided with NATO and against Russia in recent years) who had to overcome a numerical, economic and technological disadvantage in order to survive as independent states. I think that Snyder is probably unaware of this, but the modern-version of the Persian Empire, would in fact be the US-NATO-assorted allies system, and it would in fact be Russia-Iran that are the heroic and noble resistors. On the historical events themselves, the movie is in fact quite faithful, sans the the peculiar aesthetics of Miller's graphic novel who are designed to spice things up for the consumption of the masses. I think you're reading an awful lot into things that don't have much to back them up, but your opinion is your opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Heatnix Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 It's funny that you guys are talking about 300, because Lgan has made 300 million worldwide so far, lol. Timing is perfect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I rolled my eyes a record breaking amount of times when I watched 300 in the theaters back in the day. Just a taste of what a right wing Hollywood would be like. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPZVGOS Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, grey ghost said: I rolled my eyes a record breaking amount of times when I watched 300 in the theaters back in the day. Just a taste of what a right wing Hollywood would be like. Ancient Sparta can inspire both the far-left and the far-right, but definitely not contemporary liberalism. For the far-left, Sparta provides a great historical precedent of collectivism, denial of self-interest, devotion to a higher cause etc, to the far-right, it provides ultra-militarism, ultra-patriotism and suspicion, even outright disdain for foreigners. Liberalism on the other hand hates collectivism, is highly suspicious of sacrifice, is open to foreigners (especially if they can serve as cheap labor and put upward pressure on rents/house prices) and nowadays hates masculinity as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey ghost Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, PPZVGOS said: Ancient Sparta can inspire both the far-left and the far-right, but definitely not contemporary liberalism. For the far-left, Sparta provides a great historical precedent of collectivism, denial of self-interest, devotion to a higher cause etc, to the far-right, it provides ultra-militarism, ultra-patriotism and suspicion, even outright disdain for foreigners. Liberalism on the other hand hates collectivism, is highly suspicious of sacrifice, is open to foreigners (especially if they can serve as cheap labor and put upward pressure on rents/house prices) and nowadays hates masculinity as well. Despite the complexities of Ancient Spartan values and society, the movie 300 is basically macho, white nationalist porn for the alt right. (Yes I realize the film pre-dates the term "alt right") 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YM! Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 To be real, Zack Synder's only good movies are 300, Dawn of The Dead, Watchmen, and the owl movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPZVGOS Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, grey ghost said: Despite the complexities of Ancient Spartan values and society, the movie 300 is basically macho, white nationalist porn for the alt right. (Yes I realize the film pre-dates the term "alt right") It can definitely be "read" in that way, and can also be interpreted the way I am. This is because it's always the present that interprets both the past and the "future". For example, back in the 18th and 19th centuries, western scholars thought that Ancient Greece was the most awesome thing, ever! Now, they find it fascist/inspiration for the alt-right, sexist, slave-owning, hypocritical, white-supremacist and everything else the mainstream deems toxic and unwelcome. People tend to view events through their very own ideological and situational prism. This is how Hegel thought of the Persian Wars: Never in History has the superiority of spiritual power over material bulk – and that of no contemptible amount – been made so gloriously manifest. This war, and the subsequent development of the states which took the lead in it, is the most brilliant period of Greece. Everything which the Greek principle involved, then reached its perfect bloom and came into the light of day. And this is the latest trend: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eevin Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but LA LA LAND just topped $400m worldwide. Should end over / under Les Miserables ($441m) and become the second-highest-grossing live-action musical, behind only Mamma Mia ($610m). Phenomenal run for a movie like that in this day and age. So what if it didn't win Best Picture? It's still a massive success for Lionsgate and the film industry as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Panda Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 300 is one of the worst big-budget/blockbuster movies that's ever been made, easily Snyder's worst. Edited March 10, 2017 by The Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Marston Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Panda said: 300 is one of the worst big-budget/blockbuster movies that's ever been made, easily Snyder's worst. 300 wasn't big budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
