Sunshine, Light, and Joy

 

This is a post that I've been thinking about for awhile. Recently, I opened up the discussion to other members of the staff to get their feelings on the matter, and their opinions generally matched mine, which is this:

Within the last year or so, there's been a steady increase of negative posts in movie threads. We've always had some heated discussions for some movies, but recently things have not only gotten more histrionic in those threads (generally speaking, the CBM ones), but they've started to spread to other franchises and other movies as well. I'm not talking about out-and-out trolling, I'm talking about members feeling they have to consistently shit on a movie (or studio, or star) simply because they aren't interested in the current project or projects. With every piece of news about a movie, it's now a virtual guarantee that there's a flood of people rushing to say they think it sucks, they don't like the current trailer/tv spot/actor/actress/director/concept. And I get it -- we all have movies we don't like, movies which we think are bad ideas, industry people that just don't appeal to us. But there's a fine line between expressing your opinion about this and doing it so often, with such consistency, that the collective emphasis of all of it basically brings down the entire thread and thus the entire forum.

There's no easy answer to this. We don't want to crush freedom of expression here. But at the same time, the spirit of this forum is for people to have fun talking about the movies they love and the box-office runs they love.

To have fun.

And while it may be fun -- in a sense -- to personally vent about a movie, or to vent at people who dare to enjoy something you don't, it doesn't bring fun to our community. In fact, it generally drags down the overall fun for everyone else. We've had people repeatedly mention to us over the last several months or so that in some cases they don't even bother going into some threads -- even for movies they're curious about! -- because they just don't want to deal with the overall mess those threads contain. And frankly, that matches the personal opinion of most of the staff as well.

So this post is both a request and a warning. 

The request: Next time you feel like taking a dump on a movie (or a topic) for the dozenth time, take a moment to consider whether it's really worth it. People probably already have a good idea of what your attitude about the project is. Maybe just put your posting energy into a movie that you enjoy and love or are excited about.

The warning: The staff is going to be taking a closer look at some of these threads and we'll be more active with temp thread-bans if we think it'll help the overall vibe of the forum. I'd rather we don't have to, but it's not going to constrain any of you too much if you aren't allowed to post about a movie you supposedly don't care about anyway.

Remember the words of Bill and Ted: "Be Excellent to Each Other".

They're just movies, guys. It's about having fun.

Welcome to The Box Office Theory — Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

Tele Came Back

Alien: Covenant (2017)

Alien: Covenant (2017)   45 members have voted

  1. 1. Grade it


Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

108 posts in this topic

Alien: The Force Awakens - far, far more than I expected - with a dash of 'what if James Cameron directed Alien'. But that isn't to say it isn't well done and I didn't like it - because it is very well done, hell maybe even a better put together film than Prometheus except for maybe the cinematography (I honestly don't know why Scott did this approach, except for maybe bashing us over the head with THIS ISN'T LIKE PROMETHEUS BUT LIKE THE ORIGINAL except Prometheus was closer visually to the original than you think?).

 

And overall, as 'wrong' as it may seem to say, it's probably way too fun for its own good, Scott absolutely indulges in it, hence the Cameron/Aliens comparison (the tone is way closer to that) - exhibit a: that infamous shower scene capping the red-band teaser is even more hilarious here.

 

The characters and ensemble cast are brilliant, all far far easier to get on board with compared to Prometheus (thanks to the couples idea) and I appreciate Scott and the writers equalising things out between them in terms of emphasis. Performances were very good, just what you need - and of course Fassbender steals the show once again. And Kurzel's score is absolutely fantastic, blending Goldsmith references with own chilling original material effortlessly. Don't want to say too much about the story....it's definitely like The Force Awakens in terms of repeating plot beats from the original in places, but thankfully Ridley injects it all with that Cameron-esque tone and overall 'steroids' that makes it all feel fresh-ish.

 

But IMO it's the fresh elements - the Prometheus connections and the like - that I enjoyed most. Without saying too much - what they decide to follow-up on from Prometheus works and makes absolute sense in the grander scheme of things, of course-correcting this 'prequel franchise' back to Alien instead of being its own thing like Prometheus was. In fact the only problems I have are to do with the larger direction this takes and the familiarity of it all (and a flashback which kinda feels out of place), but I enjoyed it all so much in spite of that, and - again, cinematography aside - it's so well crafted that I cannot fault it. Very interested to see what curveball Ridley throws next with this.

 

8.5/10

 

and P.S. to close off the Prometheus comparisons - I'm torn between which one I like more....because Prometheus' flaws compared to this are offset by the potential it has to take the franchise in a whole other direction, a direction Scott and co decided not to take.

 

P.P.S. still not over how goofy this is:

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, antovolk said:
  Hide contents

well the first and final acts have almost identical (but not completely - changed/reworked in aspects) plot beats:

1. ship heading to a completely different destination picks up a distress call causing them to divert from their original mission

2. they arrive at a planet where they find the source of the call - an Engineer ship

3. once they go into the ship some crew members get alien-ed up (facehugged in Alien, infected by spores in this one)

4. return to ship and shit goes down with people getting sick and bursting chests (except here it happens much sooner - on the way back to the lander)

 

and in the end - leads chasing the Xeno through the ship and of course ejecting him into space. And that's not to mention the intentional callbacks to the original from the score cues, main title, the approach/landing sequence.... The middle part of the film is where it gets different because it starts integrating Prometheus elements, but the first and last third are the original film's plot beats changed up and on steroids.

Thanks for opinion. I still don't consider it TFA situation because Alien movies can't get away much from this type of plot structure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Firepower said:

Thanks for opinion. I still don't consider it TFA situation because Alien movies can't get away much from this type of plot structure.

Aliens did....and so did Prometheus.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, antovolk said:

Aliens did....and so did Prometheus.

Yes, but I mean if they did structure similar to Aliens, for example, people would still complain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Firepower said:

Yes, but I mean if they did structure similar to Aliens, for example, people would still complain.

Well it just makes you think they are running out of ideas when sequels/prequels have similar scenes to other films in the franchise.

I mean Cameron was smart and knew not to try and do another 'haunted house' film with ALIENS so he turned it on its head and made it a war/combat movie, and it matched the orig film because of it.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, stuart360 said:

Well it just makes you think they are running out of ideas when sequels/prequels have similar scenes to other films in the franchise.

I mean Cameron was smart and knew not to try and do another 'haunted house' film with ALIENS so he turned it on its head and made it a war/combat movie, and it matched the orig film because of it.

Well, I think there are some ways to make a fresh structure, but there are not many options because in this type of monster movies there are not many ways to do it. You can't run away from general "something bad happens and shit hits the fan, monsters running everywhere etc". But I don't think they are running out of ideas yet, I thought the second act of Covenant is actually fresh and very unique for the franchise, especially the villian.

Edited by Firepower

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very disppointing, much worse than Prometheus..

Esppecially after Fox cut all violent scenes for China release.

Still don't like the main plotline at all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think the final nail in the coffin was the ending. I was hoping Ridley wouldn't go for such obvious twist, that the movie wouldn't end in such *sigh* note, but it did and that made me retroactively despise the movie even more. Plus, turning David into this not interesting at all character, something that I was afraid Prometheus would do (but didn't), was a big NO.

 

Covenant is bad in every conceivable way, except for Fass and the one setpiece in the Engineer city, I guess.

Edited by Goffe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Decent movie with fast, fiery monsters. The human cast is pretty much worthless but for Fassbender.

 

No where close to Alien or Aliens. About the level of Alien Resurrection.

 

B-

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was a good effort to resolve the problems of Prometheus (or rather, just avoid them completely), in that it doesn't try to ask as many big, vague questions. It's just a straightforward kind of B-movie. I don't really feel as strongly about the film as others since I don't really have anything invested in the franchise. I mean I didn't even clock that this is the creation of the xenomorph in this movie. I just took the film at face value, it was fine, enjoyable as an action-horror film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a horror movie i thought this sucked. The aliens were not scary, the cgi seem to eliminate the fear and the final 3rd just seemed stupidly over the top. However as a prometheus sequel this was satisfying. Davids gift to the engineers was the best scene of the year so far and i liked where they went with his character. It was nice to see ridley scott did have a plan all along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jessie said:

As a horror movie i thought this sucked. The aliens were not scary, the cgi seem to eliminate the fear and the final 3rd just seemed stupidly over the top. However as a prometheus sequel this was satisfying. Davids gift to the engineers was the best scene of the year so far and i liked where they went with his character. It was nice to see ridley scott did have a plan all along.

 

Man, I'll tell ya: That last TV Spot I saw a couple a days ago looked like 1 big CGI Videogame.. How we yearn for the days of Cameron and ALIENS and how they looked then compared to in 2017..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The aliens (well not the little one) were played by actors in costumes. Are you sure you're not just using another excuse to rip on CGI needlessly? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So the creators of humans did not create the xenomorphs, it was instead the creation of humans that did.

 

Worse than Prometheus. Nothing intriguing about the storyline. No real history told about the engineers. I know David was always a prick but didn't really explain why he killed Shaw via facehugger. Also he experimented with the black liquid and a fly and eventually ended up with the face huggers...which obviously must have been quite a few years after he killed the engineers. So Shaw was alive all those years? She witnessed the destruction of the engineer people but nothing was shown from her point of view. Was she complicit or was she a prisoner?

 

Anyways, very disappointed. Very weak storyline.

 

D

 

 

thinking about it now, maybe David killed Shaw before he got to the engineer planet and kept her deceased body to experiment on. But needed a live host to see the full results. Meh still a D

Edited by Omario

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

LOL, wait, so David is the big bad (he was the bad in Pometheus but not the big bad) who killed Shaw (I thought he had hots for her?) and all the engineers? That sounds so bad it might be good. :lol: Also, I'm reading on another site that Fassbender is in a Full Ham Mode. How do you ham it up as an android? I'm intrigued!

Edited by Valonqar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The Alien part was baaaad. Much like the force awakens this was just nostalgia and tongue in cheek. 

The covenant part was greeaaaat! Just like in Prometheus Scott seems to be much much more interested in the ideas rather than the plot herein. The characters are just puppets to give the viewer some eye candy. Their actions -- just like in Prometeus -- do matter though. If a character is stupid he acts stupid because he is stupid, and this stupidness of his has its affections on the plot which in its turn serve the whole idea Ridley Scott has. 

Thus:

A (fantastic! unique idea executed in a unique way) for Covenant
C+ (fail!) for Alien

Edited by Amadeus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-5-13 at 9:50 AM, Goffe said:

I think the final nail in the coffin was the ending. I was hoping Ridley wouldn't go for such obvious twist, that the movie wouldn't end in such *sigh* note, but it did and that made me retroactively despise the movie even more. Plus, turning David into this not interesting at all character, something that I was afraid Prometheus would do (but didn't), was a big NO.

 

Covenant is bad in every conceivable way, except for Fass and the one setpiece in the Engineer city, I guess.

 

The twist was so obvious that I was expecting something else.

 

I liked the movie, though. Not in the same level of Alien and Aliens, but definitely better than 3 and 4. In line with Prometheus, but with less embarrasing/annoying characters.

 

B

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So this movie to just put it out there is most def not with Alien or Aliens. However it's much better than Alien Ressurection (really not saying much) and Prometheus. It's perfectly in line with Alien 3 if I had to rank them, not sure which though I'd put over the other.

 

As for the movie, the best thing I can say about it is that it had some great set pieces (the engineers city was fabulous) and great CGI work. All the space scenes felt cool and were done wonderfully. The film also had some great terror moments and action sequences that I genuinely enjoyed. I think Daniels did a good job, nothing amazing, and she was at least interesting enough for me to root for her. I will say though her husband's death at the beginning of the movie felt like a wasted opportunity as you have no idea who these people are and yet, I'm suppose to feel a connection/sympathy? Just a very odd move for Scott.

 

Which brings us to the bad: I think what's bad about the movie is that I felt things just "happened" but with no explanation or reason. Somewhat like Prometheus, you walk out with more confusion and questiins than anwsers. However the few questions you do get a grasp of an anwser for I didn't like (which I'll get to my "ugly").

 

The characters in this one to me weren't neccessarily "bad", but were just super under developed. I think the only names I remember were Daniels, Tennesee (that's probably more of me just finding the bame funny than anything he did), and then of course the two andriods Walter and David. And seriously, I'm sorry but these characters made stupid decision after stupid decision which made it so I couldn't help but shake my head and think "my god, just die already please".

 

First of all, it makes ZERO sense to go to a planet you just found out randomly when the other planet you have alluded to saying they've studied it, ran test run simulations, were extremely cautious. However, one weird distress signal and then boom, okay, let's just go to this planet for no reason other than it looks great and it's close (the whole pod scare to me was lame, sorry). And then they're down there on a planet they have no idea about, and are walking around helmetless! I know it's a breathable planet, but seriously? You still should be wearing hazard outfits as you have no idea what toxins or harmfull chemicals you could be in contact with. Which, clearly does NOT cross the mind of anyone there as one dude when they find the ship, he's sticking his face in those pores and squeezing them and shit, and alas, he breathes the shit in. I mean.....come on now. There werea lot of dumb moments in this movie and I can't remember them all, one of the biggest later when "captain guy" (dont remember his name) went down with David and saw the eggs.......AND STUCK HIS FACE IN IT. Um, WHAT?! Are these guys suppose to be like scientists or at least a human with half a brain? David is probably sitting there thinking "fucking idiot". And then you have all the characters down (including daniels) askingfor the covenent to get them and they would of sooner except for 1 person who actually said "um no" and was smart......until she wasn't and agreed to go down. Do they have any idea they are risking the lives of all those colonists??? Ughh....

 

And now with that rant out if the way, now we get to The Ugly portion : safe to say, I didn't find much about this film that I hated where I would loathe it and mark it ugly, which is a good thing. The bad thing is though is that there is a horrendous ugly portion to this, and that happens to be the storyline/plot. To be more specific, I'm saying all the bits with David and his reasons for what he does. I'm sorry, but it's absolutely incredulously lameto have our classic xenomorph be made by......a robot? Seriously? Was Scott drinking when he wrote this shit? And how would an andriod know how to do any of that??? Like come on now, I get there's artificial intelligence and that some computers can think "creatively" (iput that in quotes as technically even a computers suppose "reasoning" still is embedded and wired around what we program in it), however this is flat out ridiculous. And why were all the Aliens different looking? Why did it matter if you ingested the spore and gave birthro one, or if you created a facehugger, facehugger on host, then host gives birth? And why would David even bother creating the eggs/facehuggers when the spores were already creating basically the same thing?

 

Ugh. My head hurts.

 

Overall, it's a movie that you'll watch and might have some fun with action/terror sequences, so if you're just in it for fun then you'll enjoy the movie more. However if you're looking for more in depth knowleddge of how the xeno's were formed (and like you know, taking the movie seriously), you'll be dissapointed for sure. Overall rating C, 6/10.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously? Was Scott drinking when he wrote this shit? 

 

ha,ha,ha, Lindelof is clear! he didn't write that shit, or did he? :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.