Wonder Woman (2017)

[CJohn]

This was way better than had any right to be. 

[Amadeus]

It a was a completely different experience to watch this than any other super hero movie. 
It deals with ideals and is questioning the human being in such a bizzarely moving way. 

Wonder Woman is the perfect being (a so called übermench) and she finds herself in a war started by humans.
The first world war setting is kinda perfect because it's hard to imagine a stranger war than this. In the end the war was pretty much a result of tensions between states and the greed of authorities. (Compare WWI to WW2 which (kinda) was a result of ideologies.)

It's funny but at the same time tragic to watch Wonder Woman come to our world and see how lost we are. She has no understadning of this.She wants to help humanity but can not relate to it and is not prepared to handle humanity. She thinks evil is because of divine powers when they really are not and it's so cool and sad to see how she comes to realize this. 

[RobinHood26]

My main problem is simple, My 3 least favorite things in movies in general is without a doubt fake fire, CGI humans fighting CGI Humans and Over use of Slo Mo. This movie has all of them in spades.

 

Plus Wonder Woman would have fought along side Germans, or the Japs, or Russians or whoever would have arrived on her shore first. She just trusts him and fights for the "good" guys. But she has NO idea if he is really good or not. From any soldiers point of view they are the good guys. And from any point of view she would have saw the other side killing civilians or bombing towns and so forth. The Americans were developing chemical weapons too.

 

Superman grew up for 20 years seeing the actually world, he knows right and wrong, he knows the choice he's making to become superman. Captain America is an American. I see she struggling with the idea later on I guess, but its weird to show here go kill 100 soilders who are doing there "duty" and could have been on any side and then let the actual girl creating weapons live (I know its a movie haha).

 

This movie is almost like if Superman landed on earth as an adult and the SAME day someone was like you must help us defeat the bad guys. "who are you!?" says Superman, they reply "the Good guys!" Superman says sure and goes and fights on his command.

 

 

Also I found the opening to be in the land of woman poorly created. It was a not a world what so ever. It all felt so plain and sterile. It didn't feel like a living breathing place in anyway.

 

Honestly If i enjoyed the film this wouldn't really bother me and its still just a big nitpick, but I just don't find Wonder Woman overly naive. I was hoping they fall in love but don't have sex haha but Wonder Woman had to sleep with and fall for the first man she ever meet. Not that its a big deal, but I didn't feel like she was developed any stronger because of Jenkins over another director.

 

Same with with Chirs Pines assistant. She honestly has NOTHING to do with the story or plot, besides, we need a few jokes in the 2nd act to remind you its fun. The female villain is ALSO a flat character with no motivation who for no reason really we know she lets this guy push her around.So actually the women in the the first major female superhero movie has 3 women characters all weaker than the movie stealing Chris Pine. I mean c'mon its equally his movie and he's a more developed character with a much stronger arc.

 

It felt like just more of the same, average blockbuster/standard blockbuster film, I found the the plot to have a lack of thrust, lots of sitting and talking nothing to stand

out blocking wise in any dialogue scenes, painfully generic score outside the Main theme.

 

And so I also want to point out in 1917 they had Gas Pills to make you a Meta-human *SIGH*

 

The action half the time felt like that scene in Pirates 5 where CGI jack sparrow like jumps over a destroyed bridge or billing or something when they pull the house.

It was like watching that shot on repeat.

 

The 3rd act was insufferable and almost laugh\gable. Boring pointless CGI villain. Even the close up you can tell the helmet is CGI and the background ugh.

Keep in mind I do not play video games, I do not get any excitement or joy from watching video game cut scenes really. Visually I cant see how this films 3rd act is any different really

than BvS or MOS. And for the 3rd act lets all fight on a flat big runway. lame.

 

Not sure why they showed what Chris Pine said to Diana after he already died. Personally, if you're going to have that moment give it me when the actual moment is happening.

Instead of asking me to be emotional during his death, your asking me to be emotional 5 minutes when we are neck deep into a big mindless battle.

 

Oh and why to god end on a email. Thank you for that pointless connection to BvS no one wanted.

 

The 2nd shot in the movie was fanatically directed though, great mini oner, linking shots and it played with perspective well.

 

 

C (75)

Edited June 2, 2017 by Jay Hollywood

[FTF]

Saw it last night and really liked it. As others have said, great first 2/3rds and then the final act is a little long and drags the movie down a bit. Gal was great though as was Pine. Solid 8 or B/B-.

[somebody85]

5 hours ago, Tele Came Back said:

Wavering between an A- and a B+. I'll go with A- for now. Whatever quibbles I have are mostly muted by the strong emotional current throughout.

Yep right there too. Everyone else has already written too much that I'd say, but whatever flaws I had with the film were outweighed by the pros. When it gets something right (which is quite frequent), it smashes it. It felt really long but a lot of these movies do but I was never bored or anything. 

I would have liked it more if Ares hadn't been an actual character and Steves speech about humanity had been the truth. He could have still sacrificed himself for Diana to come to the same understanding about humans and war. But if that happened, we wouldn't have gotten the big final fight which all these movies need nowadays.

And I wish they had cut that scene of the group hugging the Germans after Ares is deafeated....it goes against Diana's final monologue and felt too cheesy. Also thought the movie should have ended with Diana standing on the building looking out at London instead of jumping at the camera. But that's nitpicking. 

Dunno how quick I'd want to go out and watch it again but as far as a superhero movie...besides the villains, not sure what more you could ask for. Felt a lot more emotion and heart here then Guardians 2, Doctor Strange, etc. and was a lot less depressed compared to Logan - A

Edited June 3, 2017 by somebody85

[rukaio101]

Sorry Jay. But your post gives me an excuse to talk about a lot of stuff I want to discuss about this movie, so I'mma milk this a bit.

 

3 hours ago, Jay Hollywood said:

My main problem is simple, My 3 least favorite things in movies in general is without a doubt fake fire, CGI humans fighting CGI Humans and Over use of Slo Mo. This movie has all of them in spades.

Yeah, I can entirely get personal peeves ruining part of a movie for you. I'm the same with stuff like overused shakey cam or dull, overly-grey colour schemes used 24/7. Even if the movie in question is otherwise good, that element still ends up really boring and subtracting from your enjoyment. And I can totally see why you'd dislike this movie if those are your major pet peeves. It has a lot of them. But I'm rarely that bothered by CGI or slow mo, so I enjoyed it just fine.

 

2 hours ago, Jay Hollywood said:

Plus Wonder Woman would have fought along side Germans, or the Japs, or Russians or whoever would have arrived on her shore first. She just trusts him and fights for the "good" guys. But she has NO idea if he is really good or not. From any soldiers point of view they are the good guys. And from any point of view she would have saw the other side killing civilians or bombing towns and so forth. The Americans were developing chemical weapons too.

I definitely agree with what you're saying here but I think you're missing that that was actually kind of the point in the film. Yeah, Diana fights for most of the movie believing the Allies are unambiguously the good guys and the Germans/Axis bad. But she also fights believing that the entire conflict was created by Ares and that killing him would make everyone nice and friends again. She's naive and doesn't understand mankind/war. That's the point and the movie is about her growing out of that mindset. 

 

I really don't think it's a coincidence that one of the last scenes in the movie, directly after she defeats Ares, is the surviving German soldiers taking off their gasmasks (which are face-concealing and dehumanising) to reveal the people beneath. We get to see their faces and reactions and that they're all simply shellshocked/happy to have survived the whole thing. Diana learns that mankind is capable of evil (on both sides) without godly intervention, but she also learns, through Steve's sacrifice, that they're capable of good. And it's not a coincidence that, just as she learns that, the 'evil' German soldiers start being portrayed as people. It's symbolic of her journey and the greater themes of the movie.

 

(It's also why I remember Patty Jenkins saying in an interview somewhere that the movie couldn't be set in WWII, because there was a much clearer good/evil there).

 

Quote

I see she struggling with the idea later on I guess, but its weird to show here go kill 100 soilders who are doing there "duty" and could have been on any side and then let the actual girl creating weapons live (I know its a movie haha).

That was more about the context of the moment though than just 'because it was a movie'. Wondy kills a bunch of German soldiers, yes, but she does so in honourable combat. Killing Dr Poison then and there would've been an execution of someone who couldn't fight back and an acceptance of Ares's ideals. It's a choice given to Diana while she's at her most vulnerable (emotionally) and on the brink of the tipping the line. Hence why it was so important when she chose to spare her instead.

 

Quote

This movie is almost like if Superman landed on earth as an adult and the SAME day someone was like you must help us defeat the bad guys. "who are you!?" says Superman, they reply "the Good guys!" Superman says sure and goes and fights on his command.

Yeah. It is. But that's deliberate. Plus Superman and Wonder Woman, while both being moral, are ostensibly different characters. Superman may have been born on Krypton, but he was raised as a man. Wonder Woman was both born and raised as an Amazon and is completely unaware of the world of men. That affects a lot of how they react to situations.

 

Quote

Also I found the opening to be in the land of woman poorly created. It was a not a world what so ever. It all felt so plain and sterile. It didn't feel like a living breathing place in anyway.

Eh, kinda agreed. I think the Amazons stuff escapes a lot of criticism by virtue of being gorgeous to look at (colour and landscape-wise, not like that!) and having a lot of great actresses to prop the material up. But I also think suffers from a lot of pacing issues and some elements being underexplored.

 

Quote

Honestly If i enjoyed the film this wouldn't really bother me and its still just a big nitpick, but I just don't find Wonder Woman overly naive. I was hoping they fall in love but don't have sex haha but Wonder Woman had to sleep with and fall for the first man she ever meet. Not that its a big deal, but I didn't feel like she was developed any stronger because of Jenkins over another director.

Did she ever actually sleep with Steve though?* I supposed the kissing scene could've implied it but it didn't really feel like it to me.

 

*aside from the boat scene obviously.

 

Quote

Same with with Chirs Pines assistant. She honestly has NOTHING to do with the story or plot, besides, we need a few jokes in the 2nd act to remind you its fun.

I disagree. While I do think her role was slight and mainly confined to comic relief, she also worked as a solid way to introduce/compare Diana to the attitudes and sensibilities of WWI-era women at that time in a way that Steve Trevor clearly couldn't. It's a subtle, but needed use for her. 

 

Quote

The female villain is ALSO a flat character with no motivation who for no reason really we know she lets this guy push her around.

It's pretty heavily implied in a lot of scenes that Dr Poison's motivation is that she basically loves seeing the destruction her weapons can cause. Just look at the way she dashes to the window to see the effects of her gas on those German officers Huston kills. Or the excitement in her voice when she states how her newest weapon will be 'terrible'. Or how Steve, at the gala, gains her attention by talking about the entropic nature of fire and its capability for destruction. And it's also implied that the reason she's loyal to Danny Huston is because he's pretty much the only one willing to let her actually create the weapons/gases she loves so much. It's not openly spelled out to the audience, but it's there.

 

Quote

So actually the women in the the first major female superhero movie has 3 women characters all weaker than the movie stealing Chris Pine. I mean c'mon its equally his movie and he's a more developed character with a much stronger arc.

Eh... Agree to disagree. Actually, what character arc did he even have, aside from falling in love with Wondy? He seemed more or less the same from beginning to end, character-wise.

 

Quote

And so I also want to point out in 1917 they had Gas Pills to make you a Meta-human *SIGH*

*shrugs* That's comics for ya.

 

Quote

 

The 3rd act was insufferable and almost laugh\gable. Boring pointless CGI villain. Even the close up you can tell the helmet is CGI and the background ugh.

Keep in mind I do not play video games, I do not get any excitement or joy from watching video game cut scenes really. Visually I cant see how this films 3rd act is any different really

than BvS or MOS. And for the 3rd act lets all fight on a flat big runway. lame.

 

I'll be honest, I'm kinda that opposite of you in that obvious CGI really doesn't bother me as much as most people. But the reason the third act really worked for me wasn't because of all the smashing and explosions (although those were nice) but because it was directly tied to the climax of Diana's character arc.

 

Her fight with Ares is while she's at her lowest point, where she can't so easily refute Ares's claims about humanity, where she has doubts in her mission and what she's fighting for. And, as a result, she's getting her ass kicked. Then Steve dies and, in her grief-stricken rage, she goes berserk on a bunch of German soldiers and nearly ends up giving into Ares's temptation and killing Dr Poison. Then she remembers (or possibly realises, since it's implied she was initially having trouble hearing Steve due temporary deafness post-explosion) what Steve said and realises the extent of his sacrifice and his love. This helps restore her faith in humanity's ability to do good as well as evil and completes the character arc the movie had been working towards for its entire runtime. And that catharsis is completed when she unlocks her full potential and one-shots Ares.

 

So while it definitely looks like a big CGI fest like MoS or BvS, there's actually a lot going on under the surface of WW's third act, which I think people are kinda overlooking due to the CGI fighting and explosions. 

 

Quote

Oh and why to god end on a email. Thank you for that pointless connection to BvS no one wanted.

Honestly, that was actually one of my favourite subtle low-key moments of the movie and possibly one of my favourite universe tie-ins in any movie, Marvel or DC. Why? Because it was tied into Diana's character arc and actively shows how she's grown. At the end of the movie (as her narration spells out), she's learnt that mankind has potential for both darkness and light and that that light can be fueled by love. Hence why she makes it her duty to spread love wherever she can. And what does she do onscreen while that particular line is being said? Writes a email to Bruce thanking him. It's a small subtle act of kindness that shows she's taken her lessons to heart. It's easily missed, yes, especially if you're not invested in her character arc like I was, but I personally loved it. 

 

[lilmac]

16 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

Sorry Jay. But your post gives me an excuse to talk about a lot of stuff I want to discuss about this movie, so I'mma milk this a bit.

 

Yeah, I can entirely get personal peeves ruining part of a movie for you. I'm the same with stuff like overused shakey cam or dull, overly-grey colour schemes used 24/7. Even if the movie in question is otherwise good, that element still ends up really boring and subtracting from your enjoyment. And I can totally see why you'd dislike this movie if those are your major pet peeves. It has a lot of them. But I'm rarely that bothered by CGI or slow mo, so I enjoyed it just fine.

 

I definitely agree with what you're saying here but I think you're missing that that was actually kind of the point in the film. Yeah, Diana fights for most of the movie believing the Allies are unambiguously the good guys and the Germans/Axis bad. But she also fights believing that the entire conflict was created by Ares and that killing him would make everyone nice and friends again. She's naive and doesn't understand mankind/war. That's the point and the movie is about her growing out of that mindset. 

 

I really don't think it's a coincidence that one of the last scenes in the movie, directly after she defeats Ares, is the surviving German soldiers taking off their gasmasks (which are face-concealing and dehumanising) to reveal the people beneath. We get to see their faces and reactions and that they're all simply shellshocked/happy to have survived the whole thing. Diana learns that mankind is capable of evil (on both sides) without godly intervention, but she also learns, through Steve's sacrifice, that they're capable of good. And it's not a coincidence that, just as she learns that, the 'evil' German soldiers start being portrayed as people. It's symbolic of her journey and the greater themes of the movie.

 

(It's also why I remember Patty Jenkins saying in an interview somewhere that the movie couldn't be set in WWII, because there was a much clearer good/evil there).

 

That was more about the context of the moment though than just 'because it was a movie'. Wondy kills a bunch of German soldiers, yes, but she does so in honourable combat. Killing Dr Poison then and there would've been an execution of someone who couldn't fight back and an acceptance of Ares's ideals. It's a choice given to Diana while she's at her most vulnerable (emotionally) and on the brink of the tipping the line. Hence why it was so important when she chose to spare her instead.

 

Yeah. It is. But that's deliberate. Plus Superman and Wonder Woman, while both being moral, are ostensibly different characters. Superman may have been born on Krypton, but he was raised as a man. Wonder Woman was both born and raised as an Amazon and is completely unaware of the world of men. That affects a lot of how they react to situations.

 

Eh, kinda agreed. I think the Amazons stuff escapes a lot of criticism by virtue of being gorgeous to look at (colour and landscape-wise, not like that!) and having a lot of great actresses to prop the material up. But I also think suffers from a lot of pacing issues and some elements being underexplored.

 

Did she ever actually sleep with Steve though?* I supposed the kissing scene could've implied it but it didn't really feel like it to me.

 

*aside from the boat scene obviously.

 

I disagree. While I do think her role was slight and mainly confined to comic relief, she also worked as a solid way to introduce/compare Diana to the attitudes and sensibilities of WWI-era women at that time in a way that Steve Trevor clearly couldn't. It's a subtle, but needed use for her. 

 

It's pretty heavily implied in a lot of scenes that Dr Poison's motivation is that she basically loves seeing the destruction her weapons can cause. Just look at the way she dashes to the window to see the effects of her gas on those German officers Huston kills. Or the excitement in her voice when she states how her newest weapon will be 'terrible'. Or how Steve, at the gala, gains her attention by talking about the entropic nature of fire and its capability for destruction. And it's also implied that the reason she's loyal to Danny Huston is because he's pretty much the only one willing to let her actually create the weapons/gases she loves so much. It's not openly spelled out to the audience, but it's there.

 

Eh... Agree to disagree. Actually, what character arc did he even have, aside from falling in love with Wondy? He seemed more or less the same from beginning to end, character-wise.

 

*shrugs* That's comics for ya.

 

I'll be honest, I'm kinda that opposite of you in that obvious CGI really doesn't bother me as much as most people. But the reason the third act really worked for me wasn't because of all the smashing and explosions (although those were nice) but because it was directly tied to the climax of Diana's character arc.

 

Her fight with Ares is while she's at her lowest point, where she can't so easily refute Ares's claims about humanity, where she has doubts in her mission and what she's fighting for. And, as a result, she's getting her ass kicked. Then Steve dies and, in her grief-stricken rage, she goes berserk on a bunch of German soldiers and nearly ends up giving into Ares's temptation and killing Dr Poison. Then she remembers (or possibly realises, since it's implied she was initially having trouble hearing Steve due temporary deafness post-explosion) what Steve said and realises the extent of his sacrifice and his love. This helps restore her faith in humanity's ability to do good as well as evil and completes the character arc the movie had been working towards for its entire runtime. And that catharsis is completed when she unlocks her full potential and one-shots Ares.

 

So while it definitely looks like a big CGI fest like MoS or BvS, there's actually a lot going on under the surface of WW's third act, which I think people are kinda overlooking due to the CGI fighting and explosions. 

 

Honestly, that was actually one of my favourite subtle low-key moments of the movie and possibly one of my favourite universe tie-ins in any movie, Marvel or DC. Why? Because it was tied into Diana's character arc and actively shows how she's grown. At the end of the movie (as her narration spells out), she's learnt that mankind has potential for both darkness and light and that that light can be fueled by love. Hence why she makes it her duty to spread love wherever she can. And what does she do onscreen while that particular line is being said? Writes a email to Bruce thanking him. It's a small subtle act of kindness that shows she's taken her lessons to heart. It's easily missed, yes, especially if you're not invested in her character arc like I was, but I personally loved it. 

 

 

Awesome. Great review all around rukaio

[RobinHood26]

@rukaio101Thats a good post, I don't disagree with pretty much anything you said and understand that and got what the movie was saying, except however I didn't FEEL any of them personally. My issues with the movie are a lot boarder 

 

Everything you said is kinda in-between the lines stuff. You talk about implied sorry telling. Thats fine. But heres the thing, none of those concepts or themes or ideas make it different than any film. Ive heard a director talk in DEPTH about every little frame in his unwatchable hour film "trace" as if he made fucking 2001. haha Len Wiseman could could break down Underworld the same way. All movies can. All movies have these things. I could legit talk about each scene in my film for about an hour. I could explain every single little cut, every little movie of a hand and theres a reason. there is not one question asked about my movie or someone had while making my film that I couldn't bullshit a 15 minute overly beyond complex in depth reason on why he put his hand on her left shoulder and not her right. I legit made probably 5,000 different small but creative decisions making movie, shoot certain characters with certain lenses and so forth too, I could find as much depth ( or at least they were trying ) in my little indie, or Resident Evil as you could in any blockbuster including Wonder Woman. Its kinda a given, its all about how to tell it or present it. 

 

Its not about what you imply. its about what you make someone feel. And it works for most people great I'm really glad people like it, I hope the movie is huge. but I had little investment, so I cared less..

 

When you like a movie you pick up and love all those little things. When you don't, you simply don't care for them. Ive heard people say Jack Sparrow is one note in DMC I think theres in insane amount of depth there but then again I like the movie. 

 

Movies are nothing but execution. 

 

You fall out a window and survive 15 stories its LAME and makes no sense - Bad storytelling not just false character. You fall out a window and die 15 stories in another movie and its bad ass? - Its execution again not just character that make you care or feel invested. 

 

In sequels we've seen characters do equally outrages things (pirates). Maybe they work in one movie and the next something similar feels bad or cheesy. what changed? The execution, the direction. Now how we judge that is of course lots of times based of personal taste. 

 

 

End of the day what makes a movie good or bad is really only a handful of things - Pace, Structure, Tone, Characters,   Depth in story telling can only be felt if those things are working enough for you. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Jay Hollywood

[RobinHood26]

@rukaio101 We talked about it, but we should find a way to get you on the podcast. It would be lots of fun, you could spice things up and change the tone for an episode. We would have a great back and forth discussion. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Jay Hollywood

[rukaio101]

26 minutes ago, Jay Hollywood said:

@rukaio101Thats a good post, I don't disagree with pretty much anything you said and understand that and got what the movie was saying, except however I didn't FEEL any of them personally. My issues with the movie are a lot boarder 

 

Everything you said is kinda in-between the lines stuff. You talk about implied sorry telling. Thats fine. But heres the thing, none of those concepts or themes or ideas make it different than any film. Ive heard a director talk in DEPTH about every little frame in his unwatchable hour film "trace" as if he made fucking 2001. haha Len Wiseman could could break down Underworld the same way. All movies can. All movies have these things. I could legit talk about each scene in my film for about an hour. I could explain every single little cut, every little movie of a hand and theres a reason. there is not one question asked about my movie or someone had while making my film that I couldn't bullshit a 15 minute overly beyond complex in depth reason on why he put his hand on her left shoulder and not her right. I legit made probably 5,000 different small but creative decisions making movie, shoot certain characters with certain lenses and so forth too, I could find as much depth ( or at least they were trying ) in my little indie, or Resident Evil as you could in any blockbuster including Wonder Woman. Its kinda a given, its all about how to tell it or present it. 

 

Its not about what you imply. its about what you make someone feel. And it works for most people great I'm really glad people like it, I hope the movie is huge. but I had little investment, so I cared less..

 

When you like a movie you pick up and love all those little things. When you don't, you simply don't care for them. Ive heard people say Jack Sparrow is one note in DMC I think theres in insane amount of depth there but then again I like the movie. 

 

Movies are nothing but execution. 

 

You fall out a window and survive 15 stories its LAME and makes no sense - Bad storytelling not just false character. You fall out a window and die 15 stories in another movie and its bad ass? - Its execution again not just character that make you care or feel invested. 

 

In sequels we've seen characters do equally outrages things (pirates). Maybe they work in one movie and the next something similar feels bad or cheesy. what changed? The execution, the direction. Now how we judge that is of course lots of times based of personal taste. 

 

 

End of the day what makes a movie good or bad is really only a handful of things - Pace, Structure, Tone, Characters,   Depth in story telling can only be felt if those things are working enough for you. 

 

I definitely agree with a lot of this. All the depth and thought in the world don't really matter if your film isn't engaging and the execution isn't solid. If you, as an audience member, are bored then all the subtle, between-the-lines stuff will easily go over your head. 

 

However, I feel there are a couple of small things I should bring up. First of all, just because a filmmaker puts in what they believe to be subtle/deeper meaning does not mean that that's necessarily what an audience member will take out of it. In Salo (which, to be honest, is not a great movie to be bringing up in a Wonder Woman thread but I couldn't think of any better examples off the top of my head), a character eats literal shit, in a scene that, apparently according to the filmmaker, is supposed to be a metaphor for the fast food industry. However, watching the scene itself, there's literally nothing to really suggest that and you'd never have guessed it unless you'd already read it elsewhere. So the metaphor doesn't really work. I'm praising Wonder Woman not just because it has a lot of subtle, between-the-line stuff but because a) it's presented well enough that I was able to pick up on it without too much effort (since I rarely go into films deliberately aiming to pick them apart) and b ) said moments subtly helped to bolster the more obvious major themes and moments. I get that they didn't work for you, but they were still recognizably there.

 

The second thing I wanted to bring up is that not everything subtly implied in a movie is necessarily a deliberate action by the filmmaker and/or an actual positive. For a more appropriate example than Salo, I saw the BvS Extended Cut a while ago (it still sucked) and one scene in particular stood out to me for its subtle and (I assume) unintentional implications. It's after the courtroom bombing where Clark is on his pointless wangst-fest. He's travelling through the mountains when he passes a couple of native american stereotypes. One of said stereotypes comments that Clark looks like a man looking for a place to die. Now, I suspect the intention of the scene was just to set up the talk with Ghost Pa Kent, as well as pointing out that Supes is very depressed. But, considering the movie never did a good job of actually showing Clark get over his issues and that Supeman actually does end up dying at the end of the movie, it created for me the (again presumably unintentional) implication that Clark was actually suicidal and that's why he killed himself on Doomsday's spike. And, viewed through that lens, a lot of the movie ends up taking a very different tone. Again, I severely doubt that that's what the filmmakers were going for, but it's still very easy to read from the movie. 

 

So yeah, I agree that it's easier to pick up/overlook subtler things if you respectively love/hate a movie and WW is no exception, but it's still worth appreciating that the movie did actually manage to include those themes/ideas in a recognizable way to begin with. Or at least recognizable enough that you (a person who wasn't that fond of the movie) can acknowledge them when I point them out to you. To go back to BvS, people have tried to talk about deeper meanings in scenes like 'Martha' or Lex Luthor's motives, but more often than not, it's still easy to argue why those scenes/the movie didn't do a good job of establishing that intent and not just that I wasn't feeling them.

 

1 hour ago, Jay Hollywood said:

@rukaio101 We talked about it, but we should find a way to get you on the podcast. It would be lots of fun, you could spice things up and change the tone for an episode. We would have a great back and forth discussion. 

Oh definitely. It sounds like it'd be a lot of fun. Especially if it's a movie we have differing viewpoints on, like this one.

[The Futurist]

Tele DC Stan Status Fully Confirmed Now.

We know who poisonned the well in the first place.

 

Younglings, question Your elders.

 

 

[WrathOfHan]

This was very disappointing. The movie isn't bad per say, but it's never really engaging and has an bloated CGI fest of a third act. Gal Gadot and Chris Pine are strong and have great chemistry, but the movie they're in really bogs them down. The action isn't too noteworthy either and relies on slow mo waaaaaay too much. The villains? Shite. Boring movie. 6/10 | C+

[filmlover]

This was awesome and IMO the best comic book movie origin story since the first Iron Man almost 10 years ago. To say it washes out the bad taste from Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and Suicide Squad would be an understatement. Patty Jenkins has finally delivered not only the first decent DCEU movie, but one that can also be compared to the best of the MCU, and more importantly, the first female superhero flick that could actually be labeled any good. The characters and stakes are established without wallowing in any of the grimdark nonsense that has pervaded the universe until now. I was initially skeptical of Gal Gadot taking on the role, but she's perfect as both Diana and Wonder Woman to the point that I can't imagine anyone else in the part. As her sidekick/love interest, Chris Pine is also great and the chemistry between him and Gadot is electrifying (which makes the ending all the more heartbreaking). And the action is terrific (I got chills during the No Man's Land scene), even if it all takes a turn for the typical CGI-filled superhero climax by the end. Between this and the equally excellent Logan (along with the not as great but also very good Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2), 2017 is shaping up to be quite the year for the comic book movie. A-

[robertman2]

4 minutes ago, filmlover said:

This was awesome and IMO the best comic book movie origin story since the first Iron Man almost 10 years ago. To say it washes out the bad taste from Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and Suicide Squad would be an understatement. Patty Jenkins has finally delivered not only the first decent DCEU movie, but one that can also be compared to the best of the MCU, and more importantly, the first female superhero flick that could actually be labeled any good. The characters and stakes are established without wallowing in any of the grimdark nonsense that has pervaded the universe until now. I was initially skeptical of Gal Gadot taking on the role, but she's perfect as both Diana and Wonder Woman to the point that I can't imagine anyone else in the part. As her sidekick/love interest, Chris Pine is also great and the chemistry between him and Gadot is electrifying (which makes the ending all the more heartbreaking). And the action is terrific (I got chills during the No Man's Land scene), even if it all takes a turn for the typical CGI-filled superhero climax by the end. Between this and the equally excellent Logan (along with the not as great but also very good Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2), 2017 is shaping up to be quite the year for the comic book movie. A-

No mention of Lego Batman?

 

[filmlover]

Just now, Robertman2 & Knuckles said:

No mention of Lego Batman?

 

Liked that movie. Didn't love it.

[AniNate]

This is the first superhero film I've seen in awhile that's been really good at actually staging its heroism. Part of it is a credit to Rupert Gregson-Williams' excellent score but I felt some genuine emotional surges when Diana jumped into a fight. The story is pretty standard origin-story stuff but both its surface themes and gender politics allegory are sadly still very prescient in today's world, and Gadot and Pine's chemistry and mutual sense of humor help to move things along. I still have misgivings about the DC universe as a whole but I gotta hand it to Patty Jenkins and DC on this one. They nailed it.

[filmlover]

This movie leaves me wishing and praying that Justice League doesn't suck.

 

And also very excited to see what James Wan does with Aquaman.

[robertman2]

23 minutes ago, filmlover said:

Liked that movie. Didn't love it.

[AdamKendall]

I just got back from seeing Wonder Woman a 2nd time.  I actually liked it better. 

 

You can feel the exact moment the movie really starts to take off.  While there's some cool action scenes on the beach and some awesome training montages with the amazons, it's the moment Steve & Diana have the awkward talk before she decides to help him escape.  That was where I felt like the audience bought into the movie.  There was laughter at the right moments and I feel you connect with Diana and fall in love with her in those moments.  From there, I was with the movie pretty much all the way.  The scenes in London with Etta, Steve & Diana were brilliant.  I found everyone connected perfectly in their interaction.  I would have loved to see more of them together.   The crew was a fun team.  Said was the standout among the others.  Loved his interaction with Diana in different languages.  He was a smooth talker and again provided some levity to certain moments, without it becoming to 'quippy' or whatever.

 

Gal Gadot may not be an award winning actress in any sense of the word, but fuck ... in this role she's a star.  Whether it's being strong in battle, loving towards people who are hurt, or funny with her comrades.  The scene at No Mans Land where she made her choice to do something was honestly one of the greatest superhero moments I've seen.  It's such a beautiful moment and showed how much she cared.  I feel that if some of these characteristics are not addressed or shown in Justice League it will be a missed opportunity.  She needs to be pushed as the face of the league because there's no baggage with her character. 

 

David Thewlis's role was spoiled for me (as many others I assume) but I did like the way he was revealed.  For people who were unaware I'm sure it was a bit of a shock ... then afterward you think back and are like ... yeah, shouldn't have been surprised that Sir Patrick wasn't quite who he seemed to be.  As 'Ares' he was fine ... a basic villain you always see ... his CGI self blowing shit up was okay ... a few moments/lines of dialogue during the battle came across a bit awkward, but whatever.

 

Finally, Chris Pine ... Chris Pine was an amazing choice for Steve Trevor because there's an everyman quality to him, despite being much more attractive than the average man.   His chemistry with Gal makes the movie work and if they didn't have it, the movie may have fallen flat on its face.  You could tell that people really bought into these two because the crying that could be heard from several people in the crowd when she looked at his picture on the wall of fallen heroes was pretty loud.

 

The movie has several flaws, the opening origin with the little girl was a little off and not quite as cute as they probably thought it was.  The usual CGI fest ending is a little been there done that, but felt it worked a bit better in conjunction with Steve's sacrifice than in the other movies.   Also, the villains are a little too vanilla.  I mean they're not really given much to work with and they exist to advance the plot, but lets not act like that isn't anything new with most of these comic book movies in all universes.

 

Overall, I am so happy with how this turned out.  Great action, nice humor, hell ... a  nice romance, and true heroism.  I have high hopes for the universe (especially once we get past Justice League) and hope to see more of Wonder Woman against the likes of Circe & Cheetah.

 

It's easily the best film in the cinematic universe (I would rate MoS a 7.5, BvS Ultimate Cut 7, Suicide Squad 5)

 

Wonder Woman gets an 9 or A- from me.

Edited June 4, 2017 by AdamKendall

[MrPink]

On 6/2/2017 at 0:52 AM, Sam said:

Too lazy to write more detailed review so just copy/paste from the main spoiler thread

 

I liked it. Remind me quite a lot of the first Captain America. Guess I'm just a sucker for the heroic, passionate, old fashioned good-hearted characters.

 

Characterizations for Diana was pretty great. So was Steve Trevor and their relationship. But I thought the supporting cast weren't up to par, none were memorable for me (or at least none was memorable in good/non-ironic way) 

 

I only watched BvS once so I didn't really had much of an opinion on Gadot's limited appearance one way or another then. But I thought she was real neat in the role here. Acting/line delivering was spotty in parts but she really made up for it with the heart and sincerity that shined through. I looked forward to her character evolving and her getting more and more comfortable in the role. 

 

Actions were a bit dodgy, some very good, some pretty boring/repetitive. I used to be annoyed over the abusive use of slow-mo in action movies, but lately, such thing just made me numbed and bored. The set designs and staging was good though. 

 

Funnily enough, Wonder Woman was also similar to Captain America in how their origin movies were brought down by the third acts. Although, in completely different ways: Cap's 3rd act was too subdued and feel unfinished/cut abruptly short; while Wondy's 3rd act was excessive and noisy.

 

However, on the plus side, the 3rd act both contained some genuinely emotional high points of their respective movies.

 

Loved the underlying theme of hope and optimism (not so much 'underlying' since it's consistently presented for everyone to see but you get the point) 

 

Overall, for me, it's easily the most enjoyable offering of the DCEU. I'll definitely watch it one more time in theater. And looking forward to the sequel. 

 

B+

 

Our boy Kirk giving us his Chris Evans Not Another Teen Movie Moment. PRAYER CIRCLE LIVES ON

 

Also going with a B+.