Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)

[John Marston]

I really wanted to like this movie more than I did but I just couldn't

 

 

first is this supposed to be a comedy? Pretty much every scene in the movie except for one or two maybe have some sort of gag. I am not saying this should be an overly serious movie but I felt they were going too far here

 

 

also, I didn't care for the friends. They weren't interesting and flat out annoying sometimes, and while Marisa Tomei is actually looks like an aunt and not a grandma she doesn't have anything really to do

 

 

this movie for the most part was just a paint by numbers flick. I don't get how anyone can claim it is as good as the first two Raimi films. Those did the action, humor, drama, chemistry and blended them all so much more.  I personally don't see why this has a rating of one of the best superhero films ever made. 

 

 

But it is not a bad film though. Tom Holland is fantastic and many scenes I clearly saw Spider-Man come to life. RDJ elevates this movie greatly and I wish he was actually in it more. Keaton makes his stock villain more interesting than most. 

 

 

So overall just an entertaining, but forgettable summer flick. On to the next one... 

[John Marston]

1 hour ago, grimfandango said:

Since most everybody's covered everything else, I'll just focus on the few things that really stood out to me:

 

For me the first issue is that by the end of the movie, Spiderman comes off as a weaker superhero than what I felt he was in Civil War. His character arc was one of some maturation, but because of all the help he got from the Stark costume, at the end I felt the costume was more powerful than Spiderman himself. It really drove home the point that if Spiderman ever has to come to the aid of the Avengers in a desert, he better charter a plane otherwise they'll be dead by the time he gets there.

 

The second issue is that only a few characters in the film actually get fleshed out at all: The Vulture, Spidey and his buddy (I can't even remember his name). And Keaton's talent really overshadows everybody else, even against RDJ's cameos.

 

A huge problem for me was that the plot entirely hinged on Happy repeatedly hanging up the phone a little too early....?  It feels like lazy writing.

 

One spot that I though really could have turned this movie into something special was the ferry sequence. When that laser thing was going nuts, I thought sure people had gotten killed (I mean, come on, every person on that boat should have bought lotto tickets at that point just for surviving that!). And if not then, when the boat was split in half. The fact that the ferry definitely should have sunk in a couple of seconds BUT DIDN'T broke my suspension-of-disbelief meter. What was wasted was that if Peter had actually caused the deaths of those innocents, the entire lesson of the movie would have been made right there, and in a much more impactful way. But Iron Man saves the day, welds the boat together and we are reminded that this is a Avenger's Marvel Movie attempting to be a John Hughes movie.

 

The last thing I will harp on is something that's bugged me in a lot of Marvel films but a recent youtube video was actually able to put a label on it, and that is bathos: whenever things get serious, somebody has to crack a joke or some out of place humor gets injected into it, and it just drains away the emotional impact of the scene. The best example is when Happy brings Peter into the men's room to have a heart-to-heart talk with him, and I really want to hear what he has to say....but then we get that awkward, cringey piece where we have to wait for the kid in the bathroom to pop out of the stall and slowly wash his hands and slide out of the bathroom. I was completely taken out of the moment and thought to myself "God-dammit Marvel!" It's supposed to be humorous, but really comes off as a cheap laugh. This happened here and there and especially with some of RDJ's scenes, and there is a cost to this kind of humor; and that cost is that as a viewer, I am less invested in the movie, and in particular I care a little less about the characters.

 

I did like the movie as a popcorn CBM and I liked Holland's performance but especially Keaton's, and I give it a B. 

 

 

yeah and many points I was thinking if this was really after Civil War. The Spidey in Civil War almost was nothing like this one

[MrPink]

I felt like Tom Hardy had snuck his way into the film and it was of course, Logan Marshall Green, his doppleganger.

[baumer]

You nailed it @grimfandango.

 

I too thought that Spider-man came across as a wimp.  He pretty much got his ass handed to him every time he fought.  Even in the bank he was getting a beat down because of the weapons.  He also would have died in the water if Stark didn't have wi-fi.  And I love your point about Happy being annoyed with him and hanging up on him.  If he just would have not been such a complete dick to him, some of the stuff could have been avoided.  If IM and Spidey take on Vulture, he's done...but they can't do that or they have no movie.

[baumer]

Here's a great summation of it, kind of echoes my thoughts:

 

Tom Holland delivers a good performance as a hyper-active, mildly charming kid. Michael Keaton is extremely good as a sinister weapons dealer. Unfortunately the film itself is lacking on every front.

If you went to the film looking to see the next comedic installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, then you probably left happy. If you went to the film looking to see Spider-Man, you were probably very disappointed.

The film lacked heart. The one element that Spider-Man is known to deliver better than any other super-hero. Homecoming constantly throws away dramatic moments for the sake of comedy. Many of Spider-man's abilities are erased (or at least overshadowed) by Tony Starks Spider-Iron-Man suit. There was no mention of Uncle Ben, great responsibility, or Peter's Spider-Senses. Essentially all the things that make Spider-Man Spider-Man. Spidey was even afraid of heights, and chose to drive a car rather than web-slinging.

Considering how much fans celebrated returning Spider-Man to his roots, it's shocking how much this film changed from traditional Spidey mythology. Many supporting characters don't resemble their inspirations in any way, shape, or form. Peter and his best friend border between mildly funny and very annoying, and feel like a cross between the two buddies in SuperBad and Spritle and Chim Chim. Speaking of whom this film actually delivers a tone similar to the failed Speed Racer film, which I actually enjoyed much more than this.

Finally, the action and fight-scenes really under-deliver. Spidey and friends never feel like they're in any sort of danger or true struggle. And Tony Stark replacing Uncle Ben as Pete's mentor is just really off-putting.

Marvel has a formula that delivers successful movies, but it's just not worth sitting through 2 hours of fart-joke type humor to advance the MCU a couple inches all the while killing the heart of Spider- Man

[GrimFandango]

20 minutes ago, baumer said:

Here's a great summation of it, kind of echoes my thoughts:

 

Tom Holland delivers a good performance as a hyper-active, mildly charming kid. Michael Keaton is extremely good as a sinister weapons dealer. Unfortunately the film itself is lacking on every front.

If you went to the film looking to see the next comedic installment of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, then you probably left happy. If you went to the film looking to see Spider-Man, you were probably very disappointed.

The film lacked heart. The one element that Spider-Man is known to deliver better than any other super-hero. Homecoming constantly throws away dramatic moments for the sake of comedy. Many of Spider-man's abilities are erased (or at least overshadowed) by Tony Starks Spider-Iron-Man suit. There was no mention of Uncle Ben, great responsibility, or Peter's Spider-Senses. Essentially all the things that make Spider-Man Spider-Man. Spidey was even afraid of heights, and chose to drive a car rather than web-slinging.

Considering how much fans celebrated returning Spider-Man to his roots, it's shocking how much this film changed from traditional Spidey mythology. Many supporting characters don't resemble their inspirations in any way, shape, or form. Peter and his best friend border between mildly funny and very annoying, and feel like a cross between the two buddies in SuperBad and Spritle and Chim Chim. Speaking of whom this film actually delivers a tone similar to the failed Speed Racer film, which I actually enjoyed much more than this.

Finally, the action and fight-scenes really under-deliver. Spidey and friends never feel like they're in any sort of danger or true struggle. And Tony Stark replacing Uncle Ben as Pete's mentor is just really off-putting.

Marvel has a formula that delivers successful movies, but it's just not worth sitting through 2 hours of fart-joke type humor to advance the MCU a couple inches all the while killing the heart of Spider- Man

 

Excellent point--that was bugging me too but I didn't know why.  You're on point, because they really did mess up Spidey's own mythos by wedging the Avengers into it the way they did.

[aabattery]

I think Ben's influence was there. I agree it could have been fleshed out more, but I get why they tiptoed around it.

 

Couple of scenes stood out to me; There was the one where Peter said he couldn't do something to May after all that's happened and then there was the scene where May was having a bit of a panic attack when Peter was missing. I can't remember the lines but I think she inferred something about not being able to deal with it, which I think was a nod to Uncle Ben.

 

If they had more May scenes, I think that the Ben part would have been a bit clearer and it would have made the movie better. However, I am of the opinion that more Marisa Tomei would improve any movie so maybe I'm being biased here.

 

I really enjoyed the movie personally. Didn't really have any issue with the suit or Stark's role. He definitely seemed like he could hold his own to me, but I do really enjoy watching superheros getting the shit kicked out of them. I find it kinda boring if they just go around #winning all the time.

[The Panda]

15 hours ago, aabattery said:

I think Ben's influence was there. I agree it could have been fleshed out more, but I get why they tiptoed around it.

 

Couple of scenes stood out to me; There was the one where Peter said he couldn't do something to May after all that's happened and then there was the scene where May was having a bit of a panic attack when Peter was missing. I can't remember the lines but I think she inferred something about not being able to deal with it, which I think was a nod to Uncle Ben.

 

If they had more May scenes, I think that the Ben part would have been a bit clearer and it would have made the movie better. However, I am of the opinion that more Marisa Tomei would improve any movie so maybe I'm being biased here.

 

I really enjoyed the movie personally. Didn't really have any issue with the suit or Stark's role. He definitely seemed like he could hold his own to me, but I do really enjoy watching superheros getting the shit kicked out of them. I find it kinda boring if they just go around #winning all the time.

 

I think the biggest problem is Peter really didn't have a single #winning moment.  It made him almost feel like a parody of Spider-Man versus actually being Spider-Man.  I do like that they made him more novice and younger, but it would have helped to see him really have moment where he could be Spider-Man.  They kind of skated around any webslinging moments, and it made it seem more like the director didn't know how to direct action versus it being a stylistic choice (And the few action sequences really make me think that, the majority of them are poorly done).

 

Yeah, I've kind of moved my ranking down to a B/B-.  It's really enjoyable on the surface level, but looking back a lot of things in the movie really miss the mark.

[Morieris]

Disclaimer: I have not seen Civil War in its entirety. I can't compare Spiderman from there to here.

 

That being said, this being a slightly more down to earth sideshoot of the MCU works for me. When it starts getting overly quippy, long and frankly boring fight scenes (specifically the one on the boat and some of the last one), that's when I tuned out. If I wanted that, I'd have kept up with the MCU outside of Guardians.

 

The side characters are pretty surface-level too. I thought Flash and Abraham had a more interesting dynamic than Peter and Ned. I liked Zendaya simply because it was Zendaya. I'm not really gung-ho about Spiderman canon, the Raimi films were my first and only foray until now.

 

I liked how weirdly incompetent Spidey was in the sequence where he goes from the party across the suburbs (badly), and to the arms dealers, but if it doesn't fit chronologically...I get why people hate it.

 

Not upset at "it never felt like anyone was in real danger" aspect because from what I see, the MCU is about playing it safe and selling toys. Even the side characters aren't going to die if they're kids. There is never any suspense about who is going to die in the MCU movies to me in the ones i've watched. The sequence in the car with Liz, Peter, and Tooms I thought was the highlight of the film.

 

Did anyone else find some of the action scenes needlessly dark at points. & it's another movie where you really could have reworked it so that ferry scene didn't need to be there and maybe Peter could have messed up and almost gotten his friends killed in a more direct fashion.

 

It's fine. I certainly liked it more than Guardians 2. B.

 

 

 

 

 

[Water Bottle]

1 hour ago, The Panda said:

Yeah, I've kind of moved my ranking down to a B/B-.  It's really enjoyable on the surface level, but looking back a lot of things in the movie really miss the mark.

 

Overthinking almost any film isn't always a good idea. My belief is that if it works in the moment your watching it, it's great. If not, that's when it's a problem. "really enjoyable on the surface level" means "really enjoyable".

[Goffe]

Marvel has been doing this cheap gag ruins dramatic moment thing for ages now, it's their shtick after all. 

[The Panda]

33 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Overthinking almost any film isn't always a good idea. My belief is that if it works in the moment your watching it, it's great. If not, that's when it's a problem. "really enjoyable on the surface level" means "really enjoyable".

 

I disagree, half the film is in the impact it leaves after you leave the cinema.

 

For example, I wasn't overly fond of The Lost City of Z when watching it in theaters, but it left me dwelling on it.  It fulfilled its purpose, and I admired it the more I thought about it.

 

I only really know what I think about a film after giving it time to sit.  

[Water Bottle]

3 hours ago, The Panda said:

 

I disagree, half the film is in the impact it leaves after you leave the cinema.

 

For example, I wasn't overly fond of The Lost City of Z when watching it in theaters, but it left me dwelling on it.  It fulfilled its purpose, and I admired it the more I thought about it.

 

I only really know what I think about a film after giving it time to sit.  

 

You shouldn't discount the impact you had for any movie during watching it.

[The Panda]

4 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

You shouldn't discount the impact you had for any movie during watching it.

 

I don't discount that, it's why it's still sitting around a B/B- for me.  It's also the reason I haven't dropped movies like Alien Covenant down to a C yet.

 

I tend to like movies less the more I sit on them, there's just a few that really hold up, and that's how I know they're great ones.

Edited July 10, 2017 by The Panda

[lab276]

What counts or doesn't count as #winning though? Does saving all the kids in the elevator not count? Or stopping the plane? Or not letting the bad guy die?

[John Rambo]

This was fun! But i felt this movie was incomplete without certain expected elements. 

For Instance i loved the aunt may element in both the spidey movies (SM and TASM series) it was heartwarming and emotional. In this movie i felt aunt may was just a caricature. 

Secondly the movie lacked originality involved in spidey movies. TASM was better in this aspect surprisingly.

 

Keaton was good as villain but he wasn't powerful enough. Tom Holland excelled as spidey who was in hurry and over(Hyper maybe?) active to perform his duty as spiderman. 

Spideys love interest looked mehh. Zendaya was okay and she was very observant. Ned was perfect as funny guy/friend! 

Aunt May looked hot yes  but she's just a caricature not much importance when compared to other movies!

 

Action scenes were decent and 3D effects were pretty good. Movie lacks pace at times but in the end it delivers. Usually SH do not make any sense as in reality it just not possible for people to have such powers. 

There are certain SH movies even though its illogical makes me forget the logic but spidey doesnt do the same for some extent! Marvel has a winner but @MarvelStudios u surely have disappointed the HC Spidey fan in me! 

 

6.5/10

[cannastop]

This movie mostly bored and annoyed me, although the ending was uplifting.

 

The action scenes were subpar, and the CGI Spidey looked unrealistic.

 

6/10

Edited July 10, 2017 by cannastop

[TheMovieman]

Liked SMH but can't say I loved it.

Pros:
+ Tom Holland as Spider-Man. Best of the bunch though hardly heads above the others, I still liked Andrew Garfield, shamed he got saddled with dumb scripts
+ Thank god they got Michael Keaton as that villain wasn't great (his minions even worse), but did like his different motivations; and nice little twist with him later
+ Nice homage to 1980s high school movies
+ Funny enough. Unlike GOTG2, the jokes didn't feel forced

Cons
- A tad too long
- Spidey's Eyes are just a bit too distracting and weird. Was okay in CA: CW, but seeing it so much just didn't work
- The "MJ" reveal didn't have much of an effect, felt a lot like the end of The Dark Knight Rises revealing Gordon-Levitt's name was Robin *role eyes*
- The finale was a bit too bland and forgettable

And that's it. I'll see it again in 4K but not in theaters.

 

****/*****, (B+, 7.9/10, 3.25/4)

Edited July 10, 2017 by TheMovieman

[cannastop]

22 hours ago, Morieris said:

Did anyone else find some of the action scenes needlessly dark at points.

Are you talking dark as in lighting? Then, yes, absolutely.

[Morieris]

17 minutes ago, cannastop said:

Are you talking dark as in lighting? Then, yes, absolutely.

 

Yeah, lighting.