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The Panda

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  1. Here is my full ranking of everything I've seen from the list. Will update it as the months go on and I potentially watch more. Air Bud also has a chance to rise after a re-watch into the top 5!
  2. I have a very busy week, since I won’t be able to get around to tallying the votes until this weekend I’ll accept lists until October 13th
  3. Sorry if you tried to send something and my inbox was full. I went ahead and cleared it!
  4. I realize there are quite a few lists on the docket, but I wanted to open this one up early to give people time to discuss eligibility. My hope was to create a list with a topic that: 1. Hasn't been done on this forum before and has scarcely been covered elsewhere on the internet 2. Forces forum participants to think harder about their inclusions than is traditionally expected from our lists 3. Was over a relevant genre or topic 4. Would not have singular obvious winner from the get go This will be a forum list that follows the literary genre definition about tragedies. This is not a list about sad movies, or movies about real life tragedies. This is a list of films that follows the rise and fall of tragic heroes/protagonists; or a narrative arc in which things start out in order and end in disarray. For some help in understanding what this genre is covering, watch this video and take a look at the following article. Here are some of the key components the film must include in order to be eligible for this list: 1. It must follow a tragic protagonist whose brings about their own downfall. This tragic protagonist should be morally ambiguous and cannot be purely good or evil. 2. It must end with the protagonist's fall and/or consequences of that character's fall, brought about by their own doing. "Tragedy is a genre of story in which a hero is brought down by his/her own flaws, usually by ordinary human flaws – flaws like greed, over-ambition, or even an excess of love, honor, or loyalty. In any tragedy, we start with the tragic hero, usually in his prime. The hero is successful, respected, and happy. But he has some tragic flaw that will ultimately cause his downfall. Usually, the plot of the story follows a gradual descent from greatness to destruction. ... In the end, we feel deep sadness and pity (also called pathos) for the hero. But we also feel a sense of understanding – the story warns us to guard against the ordinary flaws that brought down the hero. Sometimes, people use the word “tragedy” for any sad event. For example, we might say that an airplane crash or tsunami was “tragic.” But in literature, the word has a much more specific meaning than that." - https://literaryterms.net/tragedy/ It's worth noting, many modern tragedies can also be comedic. Do not necessarily equate sad movie with a tragedy. Examples of films that qualify and why: West Side Story - Follows the most famous Shakespearian tragedy to a T. Barry Lyndon - A traditional rise and fall arc of a flawed protagonist Citizen Kane - Although the story begins with the character's death and then explains how we reach the ending, it follows the tragic arc nonetheless Parasite - While the focus is on the family as a whole, the rise and fall arc of flawed protagonists is still there. This fits in more with a modern tragedy where an interplay of both the characters own actions and the failure of the surrounding economic system. Uncut Gems - While this got nominated as a 'comedy' in the awards season, it still follows the meteoric rise and fall of Howard. American History X - The protagonists may learn and correct their flaws, but earlier actions already set in motion the tragic ending. Oppenheimer - The protagonist's fall does not necessarily have to end with their own death to still be considered a Fall. Star Wars: Episode III - The Revenge of the Sith - Some modern blockbusters also fit the definition of a tragedy. Examples of films which do not qualify and why: Schindler's List - An undoubtedly tragic event in history, but the film follows a hero whose virtouos actions end up saving lives. It's a terribly sad movie but it is not a tragedy in literary terms. Titanic - They're starcrossed lovers whose romance ends tragically. However, the tragic ending has no relation to flaws or actions the protagonists take themselves. They experience the consequences of hubris of others, not themselves. V is for Vendetta - The movie ends in victory for the protagonist. Saving Private Ryan - The heroes succeed in their goal of saving private ryan. Sacrifice = / = tragedy. Avengers: Infinity War - While some modern blockbusters fit the definition of a literary tragedy, others with 'defeat' endings do not. Thanos is arguably the protagonist, and his sacrifices lead to succeeding in his goal. On the other end, if you follow the Avengers the traditional 'rise and fall' arc is not there. This is also a more traditional good vs evil story and the Avengers generally lack the moral ambiguity and tragic flaw you would expect from tragic heroes. Submit a list of thirty films. Scoring as follows For lists of 30 1: 15 points 2-5: 12 points 6-10: 10 points 11-15: 8 points 16-20: 6 points 21-30: 2 points For lists of 15 1: 15 points 2-5: 8 points 6-10: 6 points 11-15: 2 poitns
  5. My updated predictions BO Barbie - 162m / 680m The Super Mario Bros Movie - 146m / 574m Dune: Part II - 125m / 410m Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse - 120.6m / 385m Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 - 118.4m / 360m Oppenheimer - 82m / 320m The Little Mermaid - 95m / 299m Wish - 70m / 280m Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom - 65m / 260m Migration - 45m / 220m Ant-Man and the Wasp - 106m / 214m The Marvels - 85m / 190m John Wick Chapter 4 - 74m / 187m Killers of the Flower Moon - 40m / 185m The Sound of Freedom - 20m / 180m Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny - 60m / 175m The Hunger Games: Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes - 70m / 170m Wonka - 45m / 170m Mission: Impossible - Dead Reckoning Part 1 - 54.6m / 165m Transformers: Rise of the Beasts - 61m / 158m Creed 3 - 58m / 156m Elemental - 29.6m / 155m The Color Purple - 30m / 150m Fast X - 67m / 145m Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem - 26m / 140m The Creator - 35m / 120m Trolls Band Together - 35m / 115m Strays - 35m / 115m Five Nights at Freddy’s - 50m / 110m The Flash - 55m / 109m Scream VI - 44m / 108m Saw X - 45m / 100m The Equalizer 3 - 35m / 100m
  6. Greta Gerwig delivered - A24 their biggest hit at that point in time (a quiet coming of age indie at that) - A 100m+ DOM hit out of yet another Little Women adaptation. - And now Barbie She has had nothing but overperforming hits for her early domestic career. All of these were movies too that weren’t necessarily going to sell themselves (no matter who directed), and did not have stars that sold themselves. She may not have bought herself a Nolan sized pull yet, but it’d be obtuse to think she’s not at least in some touch with what a certain slice audiences want (also audiences that have historically been underserved bigger tentpole level content because of the male dominance in Hollywood exec).
  7. Whether it’s hard to follow with or without the TV show isn’t the point. It matters if people perceive that they have to do their homework to follow the movie or not. An endgame comparison is also bad. The excitement for that movie was permeating throughout pop culture and it turned it into a “can’t miss” type of event (same with The Avengers). The Marvels has none of the novelty, high profile stars, or highly seen lead-ups and cliffhangers those films had. Further, unlike those movies this is truly a test where one of the films is highly connected to multiple TV Shows (that most people haven’t watched) vs movies. My speculation is that this will “dilute” the branding. You could easily have another ant-man 3 situation where most people marginally interested choose to just wait until it’s inevitably out on Disney+ a few months later The Marvels has its work cut out for it for many reasons. - It’s surrounded by competition - It will get limited PLFs - The TV shows and some poorer quality movies seem to be diluting the MCU brand - it’s getting increasingly harder and harder to follow with how much interconnected content has come out Can it still be successful? Sure, but it’ll likely really ride on its quality.
  8. Barbie’s legs about to look like this
  9. you don’t need to watch Hawkeye or shehulk to see either of those movies. The Marvels requires that you’ve seen at least Ms Marvel, WandaVision, and Secret Invasion out of the shows.
  10. The casualties in WW2 are awful, but it's a major fallacy to use those numbers to write-off the casualties from the atomic bomb. Even at the low end of 110k casualties, that is 110k people (mostly civilians) dead from two single bombings over the course of two single days (This isn't even considering long term damage from radiation and psychological affects of those that survived). Bombings which intentionally chose civilian targets of a country that was at the verge of surrender and essentially defeated. The debate around whether the atomic bombs should have been dropped is not determined by them being the largest cumulative source of casualties during the war. It also isn't meant to justify or forgive Japan for atrocities they committed during the war. It also isn't a sick dick measuring contest of which country suffered the most damages. It is examining two horrific single day events that changed the course of the world. It's a complex issue, but writing it off because the rest of the six year war was also bloody is a poor way to think about it.
  11. A major blow to the list for both Femme Fatale and Swordfish to miss.
  12. Some early mid-year predictions. I am assuming Dune: Part 2 gets delayed to 2024 Best Picture 1. Oppenheimer 2. Killers of the Flower Moon 3. Past Lives 4. The Zone of Interest 5. Barbie 6. Maestro 7. The Color Purple 8. Anatomy of a Fall 9. Saltburn 10. Poor Things Alts: The Holdovers, Nightbitch, Ferrari Best Director 1. Christopher Nolan, Oppenheimer 2. Martin Scorsese, Killers of the Flower Moon 3. Celine Song, Past Lives 4. Greta Gerwig, Barbie 5. Emerald Fennell, Saltburn Alt: Blitz Bazarule, The Color Purple Best Actor 1. Cillian Murphy, Oppenheimer 2. Leonardo DiCaprio, Killers of the Flower Moon 3. Bradley Cooper, Maestro 4. Adam Driver, Ferrari 5. Kingsley Ben-Adir, Bob Marley: One Love Alt: Paul Giamatti, The Holdovers Best Actress 1. Greta Lee, Past Lives 2. Sandra Huller, Anatomy of a Fall 3. Fantasia Barrino, The Color Purple 4. Emma Stone, Poor Things 5. Margot Robbie, Barbie Alt: Carey Mulligan, Maestro Best Supporting Actor 1. Robert Downey Jr, Oppenhheimer 2. Robert DeNiro, Killers of the Flower Moon 3. Ryan Gosling, Barbie 4. John Margaro, Past Lives 5. Teo Yoo, Past Lives Alt: Willem Dafoe, Poor Things Best Supporting Actress 1. Lily Gladstone, Killers of the Flower Moon 2. Viola Davis, Air 3. Emily Blunt, Oppenheimer 4. America Ferrera, Dumb Money 5. Rosamund Pike, Saltburn Alt: Taraji B. Henson, The Color Purple Original Screenplay 1. Past Lives 2. Saltburn 3. Maestro 4. The Holdovers 5. Anatomy of a Fall Alt: Poor Things Best Adapted Screenplay 1. Oppenheimer 2. Killers of the Flower Moon 3. The Zone of Interest 4. Barbie 5. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse Alt: Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret Animated Feature 1. The Boy and the Heron 2. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse 3. Nimona 4. Wish 5. The Super Mario Bros Movie Alt: Elemental Cinematography 1. Oppenheimer 2. Past Lives 3. Killers of the Flower Moon 4. The Zone of Interest 5. Maestro Alt: Poor Things Editing 1. Oppenheimer 2. Killers of the Flower Moon 3. Maestro 4. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse 5. Barbie Alt: Air Production Design 1. Oppenheimer 2. Barbie 3. Killers of the Flower Moon 4. Napoleon 5. Asteroid City Alt: The Color Purple Costume Design 1. Barbie 2. Killers of the Flower Moon 3. Oppenheimer 4. Maestro 5. Napoleon Alt: Wonka Makeup and Hairstyling 1. Maestro 2. Barbie 3. The Hunger Games: The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes 4. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 5. Wonka Alt: Priscilla Sound 1. Oppenheimer 2. Maestro 3. Killers of the Flower Moon 4. The Zone of Interest 5. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse Alt: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 Visual Effects 1. Oppenheimer 2. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 3. Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning - Part 1 4. The Little Mermaid 5. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny Alt: Transformers: Rise of the Beasts Score 1. Oppenheimer 2. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse 3. Elemental 4. Asteroid City 5. Past Lives Alt: Priscilla
  13. Barbie - 245,000,000m OW Oppenheimer - 75,000,000 OW 320m
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