BK007

Also, not sure why everyone is surprised at Andrew Garfield being the best Spider Man. I thought it was common knowledge, no matter what opinions may be of his movies. And really neither Holland movie has been that good either.

If you put in a little thought, the whole thing unravels. Why have they all forgotten who he is? They are just meant to forget he's Spider Man. He was friends with Ned before he was bitten (I assume, can't remember). MJ only finds out in the last movie. How does Happy date Aunt May without ever seeing Peter lol. It's stupid. Then on top of that, the universes are colliding because they know Peter Parker = Spider Man, so if they now all forget, then wouldn't Garfield and Maguire Spider Man universes also no longer know Spider Man? lol

Wiki said Strange was due out May 2021 and Spidey July 2021 and obviously it's now Spidey in Dec 2021 and Strange in May 2022. How can DS2 be the same if it used to be before Spidey? Is that why they're doing all the reshoots now? Otherwise, depending on if Strange learns anything in his movie, he just decides to open the multiverse again in the next movie? That wouldn't make sense. Oh wait, damn it's been a long pandemic. I was thinking of May 2020 and that both movies were already in the can then.

If you put in a little thought, the whole thing unravels. Why have they all forgotten who he is? They are just meant to forget he's Spider Man. He was friends with Ned before he was bitten (I assume, can't remember). MJ only finds out in the last movie. How does Happy date Aunt May without ever seeing Peter lol. It's stupid. Then on top of that, the universes are colliding because they know Peter Parker = Spider Man, so if they now all forget, then wouldn't Garfield and Maguire Spider Man universes also no longer know Spider Man? lol

They didn't even credit Rhys Ifans or I must have missed it. I thought it was weird how little both of them were featured, so I assume they weren't really in it? All just CGI? Also, can someone more keyed in let me know - Dr Strange 2 was meant to come out before this pre-pandemic, but in the trailer at the end, it seemed like Dr Strange 2 is based on what happened in this film...so did they have to reshoot the entire film or something? Just because of the pandemic and Sony wanting to release Spider Man first or what's the story behind it?

Wow impressive for Shang Chi. Doing more than I thought it would without a pandemic. PA should hopefully be dead and so too 'day and date'. I don't even think 45 days is long enough, the old system worked fine, but I guess that's the best we can expect moving forward.

Also ironic that Disney is also responsible for a movie proving theatrical exclusives do well. I mean, they don't deserve the credit considering all these are leftover Fox movies which I assume are contractually obligated to be exclusive releases. But lame that even in these times Disney is still #1. Ugh.

What misinformation are you talking about? Veering wildly into fake news here. Are the full pediatric ICUs in Florida a sign that people should not be worried about their kids who aren't approved to take the vaccines? Movies whose target audiences are demographics that have been vaccinated & without dependents should do well if left as theatrical exclusives, but when no animated movie has topped $60m yet, there's obviously hesitation. Yes, most if not all of them have been available on streaming platforms, however if they weren't, you still wouldn't be seeing the blockbuster numbers of the past yet. What the studios need to be careful about is making high tier animated movies an expectation. Things like Reminiscence and the Protege look like they belong on Netflix. Generic action movies are a staple of DTV and now streaming. Sci-fi/fantasy has always been a hard sell in the States for whatever reason and many turn out the way of Reminiscence. As someone said, in a world without a pandemic, sci-fi dropping at the end of August is a recipe for bomb level numbers no matter who is starring. International audiences tend to be more forgiving but those markets are still mostly dead. Reminiscence is my kind of movie, though the ratings are crap, I'll still give it a shot if it ever comes here.

Shang Chi looks like a generic superhero movie and Eternals currently looks like a bad space opera. The atmosphere in the latter is just dead. Hope Free Guy can hold well next weekend despite Delta so that we can have more evidence on why being a theatrical exclusive is good. And obviously it has to be well received so not like Snake Eyes.

Paramount should have sold Snake Eyes to Amazon instead of The Tomorrow War. Pratt is a star, Golding is not. Worldwide potential for sci-fi blockbusters is huge, for flailing has-been franchises it's not. Disney were smart to start planning for a global streaming platform early and start to expire their film rights. Paramount+, Peacock and WB/Discovery - how are any of them realistically going to expand? All of them are owned by bigger companies - well I suppose WB/Discovery is now sort of free from clashing objectives/perspectives but I think it's a legacy mess. Can they make enough $ in the US alone to offset losses elsewhere? I don't think so. Disney itself, the best prepared has already struggled to get it right but they have the most leeway since they own pretty much all the biggest brands. If Americans cannot associate any franchises or brands with Paramount, Peacock and WB/Discovery, then why would global audiences be able to? I guess the one thing in common they now all have are animation arms which is a necessity. But no one goes into a film and says "Ah, a Universal/Paramount/WB film". I guess to be fair, it's not like people are giving Disney itself much credit but Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars have strong enough identities to offset that.

What sucks about the WB decision was that it was made presumably by AT&T clowns who then washed their hands off of it within a few months, but the consequences of that are massive. Fucking brainless executives. When has an executive ever done anything with considerations of anyone besides themselves and the mythical shareholders?

Also btw Home video sales were up to $21b alone in the height of its popularity in 2003/2004. Today's marketing including subscription streaming is only at $13b. So not only is it way down, but streaming is also eating into box office, pay TV windows etc. So for those still arguing that streaming makes the studios more money - that is definitely not the case. It's one product eating into everything else that generates revenue. There will be an optimal point in the future, but day and date is not it. And Premiere Access will either shoot up dramatically in price or be remoulded into the familiar PVOD 24hr rental a few weeks into release that I think already exists. It'll probably be both. Or maybe studios start making movies for particular tiers - that might be the future of movies. Day and date is suicide. & once again this goes for traditional studios as opposed to Netflix, although even for the latter, they need to find a better balance in their content spend/quality, at least with regard to their movies.

Something to note is that a panel/userbase/etc. can be overindexing certain demos. Something like Mortal Kombat getting 3.8m seems like that. Normally you can't really tell until it happens whether the index is skewed. If anyone knows about App Annie, their metrics are all over the place. They have a panel as well, but wildly overestimates. How does Nielsen know which demograhic is watching to properly attribute? and also given that these are from a sample - how is it no one who is part of it has ever found their way to one of these forums to give us the lowdown? Unless there's some kind of NDA or something.

You guys know the person who released it was that woman aligned with Iger. She was meant to be leaving too.

And whilst we ponder about this pandemic affected BO - there's really no guarantee in our lifetimes that anything goes back to normal. When covid finally subsides - if it does - will there be another pandemic? Climate change just continues to get worse. The way these movies are made won't last forever. All those dystopian films are a lot closer to reality than once thought. And obviously no one is watching movies in those. I know it's off topic, but it just kind of hit me that we're all hankering for a normality that will not return. You can't go back to 2019 no matter how much people want it to happen. I wonder when the rest of humanity will realize and pivot. Can't say I'm too optimistic about it when the elites in governments and businesses are all about the return to status quo to exact the same amount of control as before. It'll be too late once we do, I'm sure.

They may be part of the entertainment industry but their model is different to that of the studios. It's the studios trying to copy them not the other way around. Except with the studios, they already had all kinds of legacy revenue that their current movies look bad compared against older movies. This statement makes 0 sense. What does "make it at a loss" even mean? The only place these are played, and have been played, is Netflix. Subscription revenue is the only place to pay for their budgets. You're getting your wires crossed. Well, you could argue that despite theatrical and home video collapsing, SVOD didn't even increase. It still fell. Obviously in a pandemic you can't rely on the latter two, but to say that in the future without a pandemic that the studios need to pivot to streaming is not true. Streaming just cannibalizes other revenue streams. The closer to release date it is, the more it affects overall revenue. As previously mentioned, the studios are not currently and will not ever be like Netflix. They run on different models. Yeah but if it resides on a streaming platform, there is zero way to attribute any new money to it. Unlike direct home video sales, rentals, PVOD, TV deals etc. I don't think they've come up with a formula to attribute the subscription price across all their movies. Maybe they will start doing it. They should although each studio would do it differently. I mean, think about it in this example, for a given month: Subscriber A: Watches Moana for 2mins, Watches Endgame fully Subscriber B: Watches Moana for 2 mins, 30 mins, full movie, Watches Endgame for 30 mins Subscriber C : Watches 100 movies fully and watches 100 movies for 30 mins What formula are you going to split your subscription revenue to all these movies to determine what movie is retaining your users? Obviously those that are never played would not get any piece of that. Companies aim for power users, but each movie for sub C is getting cents, whereas sub A, Endgame gets it all. You can keep drawing different metrics to what should count and it becomes hard to attribute. Ironic that its popularity was due to it being in the public domain and then they pulled it back in. But this is why the public domain is so important but too many want to defend Disney and corporations for what they did to make sure most culture is destroyed by time instead of being preserved. But TV episodes aren't exactly short. The budget for special effects would balloon no? Also, once again, the studios need to figure out how to attribute subscriber revenue to their content that makes sense and I doubt they have figured it out and it will always be done differently within each company until someone forces a standard - probably the SAG, DGA, WGA have to come together and do so. And for the rest of the topics in this thread. Saying that the content is crap, so that's why no one is watching anything is dumb when you can then only refer to a handful of films each year that meet your criteria. That handful is not enough to sustain the marketplace - and if you look back at any pre-pandemic year, there are lots of duds that make money. You can't say they just need to make movies like AQP2 and NTTD. It's not even true that good movies necessarily make the most money. Yes, no one asked for TSS. Who even reboots a film in less than 5 years and keeps most of the cast and the name? Casual audience will certainly not be excited - myself included - because the first was a really terrible movie. But having said all that, it wouldn't have opened to less than $30m without the pandemic.

I think the UK has a better handle on vaccination than the US though. Florida has like record cases which is a fucking joke when we're 2 years into the pandemic and vaccines have been available for 6 months. Also re: CinemaScore - has it changed much? Back when BOM forums were still alive, or maybe the start of these ones, there was a scandal when CS was revealed to be like only a few hundred people in a handful of theatres - or maybe even less than that. Maybe they might have changed it because the studios can't have been happy finding out what they paid for was no better than a Twitter poll.

There was a Pixar Canada too that didn't seem to do anything of note before it was closed.

The question is, how stupid are they collectively to have not realized this? It doesn't take a genius to predict that. Driven by shareholders, clueless executives tried to replicate Netflix without any idea of what they were doing. Not to mention, having been part of a legacy company attempting to play in the digital space, they have no idea what they are tracking at first. I would not be surprised if they weren't even tracking the right things knowing how intransigent executives are. Yep, most or all of these digital analytics are extrapolating because fundamentally, those that hold the data (in this case the studios) will not share it. Which app will voluntarily share their data for public use? None of them. Same as above. Is Nielsen even really that accurate? It is the most accurate of metrics, but fundamentally how accurate can it be? If only there were visionaries in charge of the studios instead of the usual morally bankrupt, short term perspective, clueless leaders. Only if theatres close forever. Idiotic studio executives when blindly into streaming without due diligence and through shareholder pressure. As EmpireCity states below: They are basically destroying their current revenue streams for a singular one which undermines their revenue streams further lol. The subscriber revenue is the only new source of revenue but that competes directly with theatrical repeats, TV rights, PVOD/rentals and home video. & you need to keep spending on content to keep that subscriber revenue. The difficulty for them is that there are no win-win strategies. They tried to adapt (badly) in the States by opening streaming platforms but since most have no presence in any other countries, piracy has flourished. Counterintuitive but maybe should have done a deal with Netflix/Amazon/Apple to host the movies worldwide at a theatrical ticket price that would expire after 1 day & give a % of that to closed theatres whilst they figure out worldwide strategies. But it's every man for himself. Yep, but the whole thing has been ill thought out. I think sub revenue is the cash cow but also offsets all the other traditional sources. And since the other sources are generally easier to find information on especially theatrical and maybe home video/PVOD, you wonder how talent wants to structure new contracts. Everyone will want a piece of that sub revenue. Maybe the studios will just have to have a higher salary upfront so they can continue to not reveal numbers. Otherwise they would be forced to tell the likes of Johansson, Johnson and Stone who is watching and find out a formula that will reward them for their movies dominating the views on the streaming platforms.

Can't wait to see Chapek get fucked. All these useless executives add absolutely nothing of worth.

Because they refrained from releasing numbers for Mulan, Raya and Cruella before. & clearly Black Widow, though not necessarily Jungle Cruise, would've been expected to do more pre-pandemic. Obviously it's impossible to compare, but then everything besides BO gross has been so opaque for so long. They didn't even give any follow up numbers for Widow. Clearly PA is frontloaded. Every additional week it gets closer to being free. Also PA isn't available worldwide and piracy is global especially with OS markets closed or limited. Anyway it's a reckoning for the West. Hoarded vaccines and yet still can't even vaccinate to herd immunity in their own countries but fucked over and continue to fuck over poorer countries. If another variant pops up that is even worse than Delta, shall we just let Pfizer and Moderna hold the world to ransom? Systemic collapse would be in store sooner or later all for the sake of shareholder profits.

Love it when shithead CEOs face consequences. Doesn't happen enough. Unrelated to Johansson but CEOs (and other execs) should face criminal charges if they are found to have covered up crimes. The US (but also everywhere else) is pathetic at pursuing them. Has a single CEO ever been prosecuted? None from Big Tobacco, Oil & Gas, Finance, Pharma etc. Perhaps only the Enron guy but that's because he stole from other rich people.

Or it could just tell you that most people have already seen it. How many times do we need to bring up piracy? I haven't brought this up on this site I think, but the analogy is this: Compare the ease of availability of finding a stream for the Champions League or World Cup final as opposed to a CL qualifier between an Israeli & Azerbaijani team or a WC qualifier between Fiji and the Cook Islands. Yes, everything can be pirated, but big movies are more widely available and of course we have the pandemic as another filter, but as others have said before hosting a stream on Discord etc.

Black Widow did not have a bad reception though. It has a 92% on RT audience, all the rest of those movies are below that, in some cases far below that. Old is the worst with 52%. I guess RT may not be as useful as it was before but you can still compare it within the same year. Why are people so invested in day & date streaming being a success? Do you own Netflix and Disney stocks? Anyway, I hope Johansson wins. So much for any PA profit lol. If you didn't know the Amanda Knox story, you'd wonder why on Earth anyone would make a film like this? And recently Knox herself came out to criticize McCarthy and Damon. Not that she made a difference to the box office, but you really have to ask who this movie was for.

Nah, the Green Knight may not have been sold as action heavy, but it was still sold like an epic medieval fantasy. Maybe that may not be true, but audiences don't have many points of reference. I wonder if I'll like it, but these bait and switch campaigns are only good for opening weekend, if that. Re: the window. They should really keep it at 45 days. 30 days, or basically a month, is enough for a person to say, they'll wait for streaming. 15 days doesn't seem like a lot of difference, but I think in the human mind it is.