jaybox

There’s people debating if Drake and Taylor have equaled or surpassed MJ. They’re probably younger and I understand cause the way things are are probably all they’ve seen and can comprehend (I literally am the era of Taylor Swift and Drake aka Millennials btw the older squad saw Mariah, Whitney, Britney, Beyoncé, Backstreet Boys, NSync, Eminem, etc). If you look at it contextually - imo I think MJ has a tier 1 argument (beatles do too etc just saying tier 1* level) for most famous artist ever - especially of the last 50 years. When counting worldwide it’s another level. At one point the man had the 1st and 2nd biggest selling albums of all time in a non-single sales driven era. When you bring someone into the MJ / Beatles / Madonna / Elvis (I don’t think Elvis is as big worldwide as the other 3 btw but in the US he’s propped and held up in insane fashion- also if people think someone else is up there all good just my opinions not trying to debate or get into the fandom wars) - you’re going to split pop culture follicles into separation between the greatest of the great. Again there is no question, Taylor is one of the biggest stars ever etc.

Chartmaster’s is awesome

that’s not what I’m seeing. I’d link the sources but this platform isn’t letting me. rihanna has higher certs, higher reputed sales - 230-250 million, more number 1’s taylor has lesser certs lesser reputed sales between 170-200 - * the date source was 2021 reporting it but I doubt she’s sold 60-80 million within 2 years. I don’t think Rihanna is bigger than Taylor Swift btw- I’m just saying can we compare her with someone in her own era who has comparable sales, with the same affordances (streaming YouTube social media both started in 2005/6ish) before vaulting her to top of the top. There’s no doubt she’s one of the biggest stars ever there’s no debating that. Unfortunately tho there’s levels and when people say MJ / Beatles / Madonna / Elvis (whatever order) these splitting hair comparisons happen. there’s also heavy hitters not even mentioned like Whitney, Mariah Carey, Garth Brooks, Elton John and bands like Led Zeppelin, AC/DC that have sold millions and have moved needles Pop culturally etc.

Peak Gaga was pretty damn (2009-2011) big so imma put some respect on that era. She was pretty much getting all the hype Taylor is now. Difference is Taylor sustained it. Gaga had a dip after born this way with her art pop release and hasn’t quite been as bright since (she’s obviously still huge but we’re splitting hairs here). Adele between 2011-2015 attained heights Taylor hasn’t yet album sales wise. Opening week record (although with streaming which I think should be asterisked or separated after like 2014) and she had an album that was being called the Thriller of the digital era. Hard to get bigger than the biggest seller of the 21st century. But again: she went away and when she came back it while she was still huge, it was a slight dip compared to that (with the 30 album). Drake has more hits than her in the streaming era and is also being compared to MJ (it’s always MJ notice that?) rihanna has sold more than her and has more number 1s. where Taylor gets all of them at is just sustained album opening week dominance, concert sales, and fandom. This movie record is bonkers too- no one has done that- tho Em and Prince arguably did it a little differently (number 1 album, number 1 song and movie etc) - but this is just a concert film- not a feature flick. So Taylor has that- I don’t see this being beat for long time. That’s a feather in her cap for sure. I’m sure this will make some others upset I’m not trying to cause any debates! Just mentioning that there are still other monstrous artists competing with Taylor and while she may be ahead of the pack can we acknowledge these other heavy hitters before saying she’s MJ / Beatles / Elvis / Madonna status? Is it that her tour numbers and pop culture megastardom from this year has vaulted her over all those others as like a cherry on top to her career? Would love another viewpoint thanks!

Watch it. I posted numbers, context, while saying Tay Tay was one of the biggest stars ever, but also asked if we can compare her to other monstrous stars like who you mentioned that are in her OWN ERA before anointing her with a guy who at his apex was arguably (tier 1 argument) the most famous artist in modern music history. I got scorched by the swifties - got called names, racist (even tho I was one of the people who defended Taylor Swift when people claim Kanye West made her famous). A lootttaaa people got mad. Just mentioning to ya to prepare yourself. These Swifties are different. Lol!

Joker isn’t a Batman movie but it’s literally Batman’s main villain and Batman related. I think negating what Joker did because it wasn’t a Batman solo film… is a bit of a reach. It’s clear as day if Batman is quality with no negative preceding factors it’s a constant Billion dollar movie contender. Nolan doing one more Bale Dark Knight movie probably pushes 1.5 billion. This is also without Batman being connected to a mega game changing movie universe franchise. TLDR- Batman has overseas pull and can probably go higher depending on the movie and who’s involved and the landscape surrounding it.

Yeah to add to what you said it’s more than just sales imo. They play a factor but there are more indicators. Impact worldwide plus the inflation factor of racist record labels, racist audiences, attitude’s during Elvis’s era places an asterisk by his name IMO. He’s in the discussion and I’ll give the historical respect but it’s pretty obvious to me Michael Jackson at his peak was the most famous celebrity / artist ever/ certainly post Elvis / Beatles without question no debate. MJ made people not care about what color he was - on 20x the level that anyone did before him, while breaking records and selling out stadiums and thensome. I was just overseas last year and heard more MJ than Taylor Swift whenever non-native radio was playing. Small sample size but let that sink in. Lol For at least Music artists It’s certainly Beatles/Elvis*/ MJ in that tier- I’d throw in Madonna right after that but I’m sure others will have opinions for others. there’s a lot of names to put in the “most famous non-Jesus, non-religious figure” celebrity ever but those names would def be up there. For sports obviously Ali, Jordan, Ronaldo, Messi, Pele, Woods (I know there’s others I just named off the top of my head for impact purposes)

Reactions look awesome. Movie has a lot to overcome press wise- people will be out to get it because of Miller’s antics. So due to that will take the reviews with a grain of salt (example - when Joker came out I saw a review saying it was a very good movie but because of fear of inspiring incels the reviewer couldn’t give it a fresh review). IMO as long as this movie is better than Ant Man 3, MoM, Thor 4 (shouldn’t be hard) it’ll be fine. Just needs to be solid to very good. I’ll also say this - once again, people are vastly underestimating Michael Keaton’s return. Only Christian Bale returning would be bigger because Nolan’s Trilogy is hailed as the apex of next level CBM making (due to the Dark Knight). Keaton for many is the best and most iconic Batman. Millennials born in the 80s grew up with Batman: TAS and Batman / Batman Returns. Gen Xers identify with Keaton too. Keaton’s Batman 3 is one of the biggest what ifs in the genre. I’m not saying it gonna go bonkers opening weekend (if Bale was back lock 150 million opener) but it will definitely play a factor (domestically). Just my opinion of course.

Yeah I hear ya- I’m probably in the range you’re talking about seeing as Bale’s batman (Begins and Dark knight are my top 2 favorite live action batman movies B89 is third) and Tobey ‘s Spidey the live action blockbuster heroes of my “youth” but I’m just saying Keaton’s batman is a batman many in that specific age group grew up with be it thru theaters or home video / TV or discovering it thru B:TAS since it’s connected thru the main theme. He’s definitely going to be a factor how much remains to be seen.

Yeah I hear that - we’ll see. My sample size is obviously small but people on my end- half of which hate DC btw- all said the trailer was amazing and they’re happy to see Keaton again. Even my boss who’s 50 said it cool seeing the trailer and Keaton being back.

Trailer was fire. People complaining about CGI, it'll be better by the time it's released. I wonder if there was similar energy for some of Marvel's awful CGI (She-Hulk, Kang looks laughable in Quantumania so far but Majors will kill it, Multiverse of Madness etc). Shame Miller probably ruined its ceiling BUT To people hating on Keaton or wondering what the big deal is. Batman 89 was THE Batman movie and actually is still up there; it was one of the biggest blockbusters (blueprint for modern blockbuster marketing since) of all time (shattered the open weekend record) with an iconic joker, iconic Batman, iconic score (still the best one imo) etc. Keaton's Batman is viewed as the GOAT live-action Batman (other than Bale probably) for most people above 30. Keaton coming back is a big* deal. He's probably going to be one of the main reasons this makes any amount money. If it weren't for the miller factor I'd say this could open to 130+ million easy, even with the DC baggage.

Star Wars won’t fade, it’s too engrained in American pop culture. Vader, Luke Skywalker and Yoda alone (not even counting Leia and Solo and others who are heavy heavy hitters) are way too iconic. Even while holiday shopping I’m seeing damn baby Yoda everywhere. Don’t see how it fades in any phase if I’m begin honest, especially now that nerd culture is mainstream (ironically due to comic book movie successes over the last 20 years).

Yup, was a kid when it came out one of my most favorite animated movies ever (probably #1 for Disney). 90s Disney animated flicks was a movement haha

I’m so late on this. But that’s one of the craziest drops I’ve ever seen. Wow. Well deserved movie was pure fun.

Lol. Y’all gotta chill. Been a Batsy fan all my life. This is the umpteenth Batman movie coming of not the best of casual reactions in Batfleck and DC’s “universe” is a wreck compared to marvels. It’s not like this Batman is coming out having been aided by a behemoth connected universe elevating its numbers. (Strange will outgross The Batman but it’s not cause Strange is a bigger name it’s cause of MCU being MCU for example). This should be treated like Batman Begins imo. The movie has to earn the trust of skeptics again and it has to get fans to buy in. It might be cap’d by its detective noir vibe but nonetheless it still had to earn its stripes. Begins had to do this in worse fashion in 2005 coming off the worst comic book movie ever made (Batman and Robin). its a much different landscape. MCU has been consistent quality even with its bumps along the way, DC’s Batman has not since 2016 and even with Rises people were polorized with that at times (despite it being a blockbuster). If WOM is overall good then people will buy in. With the Penguin (amazing portrayal by Farrell) and the GCPD HBO Max shows if those are good (hopefully Batman cameos too) history would say if Reeves does a sequel it’ll explode. stop melting down lol.

More than that (just posted it haha). Easily .

Yup. Was on Box office forums and all that. Big Batman and Box Office junkie / forum lurker over the years. Batman & Robin killed the Batman movie brand. Batman Begins put faith back and the cliffhanger Joker card reveal was huge. The movie had great legs for the time and people forget (I don’t) how huge the SECOND trailer for The Dark Knight (First full trailer) was. It revealed the Joker, and mad people were hyped to see it. I went to see I Am Legend in 2007 which had the 5-10 minute preview for TDK that showed the opening scene. There were signs at the door saying not to show up just for the Batman trailer. It was the first Joker since Jack. People were hyped as hell. This was December 2007, before Heath’s death. Given the reception to Begins and the hype, AND the Batman and Joker dynamic- which broke opening weekend records 19 years earlier, and the fact that Batman broke the OW record 3 times before doing it the 4th time with the Dark Knight, I was one of ones predicting an 100+ opening and upwards of 400 million. The Batman movie brand modern day wise is fortified due to the Nolan films, but it has been dented by the reaction to the “failed” DC cinematic universe. Dont get it twisted. If this movie is good to great then you can book the sequel to 200+ million. If there’s the Joker dynamic (I doubt it but if they did a multiverse and put Phoenix’s Joker in the next batman movie or something) then 225+ and beyond. This movie doesn’t have to make 500+ million it just needs a good showing. Wouldn’t be shocked if it “underwhelmed” or wouldn’t be shocked if it “blew up.”

Could this movie break 220 million+ OW? Thoughts? Nostalgia for the past movies, intrigue about Tobey and Andrew, MCU brand, biggest release since the pandemic began, etc.

Lol, I think it blows past that, especially if it wasn’t covid. I think it would be better to compare adjusted.

Saw it, wasn’t better than the first but it was still solid. Felt the soundtrack - which was a monster part of the first- was lacking in this movie. James’s acting was fine- loved that he poked fun at himself. Felt the plot was inferior the villains were inferior (monstars > goon squad) but considering the digital era it made sense and that’s all that matters. Kids of this era will love it just like kids from the past era loved the first one. People wondering why there’s “hate.” Remember, the first wasn’t well received either critically so who cares. I wonder if people were saying people “hated” Jordan because of the reviews. For many Lebron James is the MJ (GOAT) of the gen Z and younger millennial generation, but while being a better human being, better role model (and sorry if this is going to hurt his hardcore fans), he simply is NOT QUITE what Jordan was in the pop culture zenith of popularity in the US and Worldwide. Why that is? That’s up for debate. I do think there’s a bit of that for people going on in this movie and it’s a waste of time. Lebron is Lebron. MJ is MJ. Space Jam 3 (if there is one) should continue to star the GOAT tier ball player of the generation (so wait another 15-20 years for the next lol).

The hell? Lmao. They’re literally regarded as some of the best movies ever made and the trilogy is constantly polled as a top tier masterpiece. Gollum, Gandalf, and jokes about Frodo and Sam still resonate in multiple references today.

Fanboys always complain. 😕

Trailer was fire. One of the best I’ve seen.

Nah. Was 10 when it came out. It’s a big movie for kids from the era. Trust me. As others said it grew on video and TV. And I’m sure this will trigger many zoomers, but Michael Jordan is one of the biggest pop culture phenomenons in American history. Literally made the NBA a global phenomenon even more than Bird and Magic. Regardless of how people think James is the “GOAT” or what not, in terms of popularity MJ is probably at least 2 tiers ahead of James highest of heights (his lack of politicking helped for better or worse). Jordan’s brand made 132 million in sales in 2019, while James made 32 mil. Lmao. Jordan retired in 2003 and the real MJ as we knew was done in 1998. Honestly if WB plays cards right this is a can’t miss.

I think you're severely underestimating a Knights of the Old Republic movie (it's that's the next batch of Star Wars movies). If it's well done than all bets are off domestically. But yeah i think AM2 does well regardless. Also ,with rumors that Kevin Feige will be on Star Wars and after seeing the first 5 episodes of the Mandalorian...I'm betting Disney "rights the ship" although when a mixed-reviewed movie is making 500 million and a billion worldwide after an ill-received predecessor that apparently turned off a large portion of its fan base that alone shows how potent the brand is. Just can't write it off. Star Wars (and Star Trek) basically spawned pop-nerdom and has two legit movies that changed modern day cinema (Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back). Star Wars IS American pop culture. Comic book movies ala, The Dark Knight/Heath's Joker, Tobey's Spidey, X-Men, then topped off by the MCU made it cool in the social media age. Star Wars through the good and bad will remain timeless simply based on the OT and the original characters and the other extended stories that they came from.