Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny | June 30 2023 | Very mixed reviews out of Cannes

[Issac Newton]

2 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

Not not really .

 

Just don't think the earlier ones were your cup of tea that's all.

 

The original  3 were a pretty great adventure films IMO.

 

 

 

Yeah, I like to input the same. TV ratings are still strong even after years of repeats here. Last Crusade is my favourite.

[Xavier]

I m reading RT reviews, they are the very definition of lukewarm, tepid and faint praise. People have become so nitpicky and hard to please. They are calling the third act outlandish and stretching believability. Really, in a movie series which showed us ghouls and the wrath of God coming out of a golden box and a 500 old knight guarding the cup of Christ?

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

2 minutes ago, Xavier said:

I m reading RT reviews, they are the very definition of lukewarm, tepid and faint praise. People have become so nitpicky and hard to please. They are calling the third act outlandish and stretching believability. Really, in a movie series which showed us ghouls and the wrath of God coming out of a golden box and a 500 old knight guarding the cup of Christ?

Reviewers don’t want to praise mediocrity anymore I think. Plenty of blockbusters get great scores nowadays. 

[Daf]

5 hours ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

We’re just baffled that they budgeted this movie like it was Star Wars or Avengers when they should’ve budgeted it like the Sunday afternoon movie for the 40+ crowd that it is. It’s going to lose a lot of money because these of this. 

In fairness, it wasn't budgeted for $295M, that's just how much they ended up spending from the start of development (like, 8 years ago) when all was said and done.

[Liiviig 1998]

22 minutes ago, Xavier said:

I m reading RT reviews, they are the very definition of lukewarm, tepid and faint praise. People have become so nitpicky and hard to please. They are calling the third act outlandish and stretching believability. Really, in a movie series which showed us ghouls and the wrath of God coming out of a golden box and a 500 old knight guarding the cup of Christ?

 Crystal skull was pretty  outlandish for an Indy movie already  . The third act especially don't get me started.

 

So don't have an issue with them voicing any criticism on that .

 

 

 

 

[Deep Wang]

5 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

I’m not sure if I follow how people think that an Indiana Jones film having a $300m budget is crazy (clearly inflated by Covid) while Mission: Impossible 9 is $290m (same situation) is completely fine.

 

Are people actually saying $290m for MI:7 is fine??  Both of those budgets are insane.

[ZattMurdock]

4 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

 

Are people actually saying $290m for MI:7 is fine??  Both of those budgets are insane.

I mean, yes. BOT has always had its flavors of the month sure, but the way we keep talking about Indiana Jones budget without taking shit in context like it was made through the covid delays (very same situation of M:I) is kinda funny. You can see on the subsequent posts people trying to justify that. I’m actually very curious to see how the runs of both films will compare to each other in the upcoming weeks. I don’t believe in the whole ‘omg Cruise is cool now’ vibe I get here on BOT.

 

And I mean, in a world shock full of sequels, reboots and remakes, there is actually something special and heartfelt to me to have an 80 year old dude go one last ride as his most famous role. It doesn’t happen that often, and I say this as a massive superhero and blockbuster fan. It kinda makes my eyes roll the way some go out of their way to call a film mediocre when barely no one has seen it compared to another that it’s not even out, with the same insanely budget and very low pre-sales. Lots of gratuitous poison the well talk that I don’t think it’s warranted unless you are one of those weirdos that have fake accounts to curse at Lucasfilm for killing their childhoods or something. 

[wildphantom]

People can associate budgets and box office equating to the failure of a film all they want. They’ve been doing it for years online and on here, especially lately. 

Ultimately, all that matters is that those that enjoy it are allowed to enjoy it without these whiners telling them it’s no good when they haven’t seen it. 

[ThomasNicole]

23 minutes ago, Deep Wang said:

 

Are people actually saying $290m for MI:7 is fine??  Both of those budgets are insane.

Both are absurd and very likely inflated due to COVID restrictions etc. 

 

But i think most people draw the line considering how it looks, MI7 looks very epic and hard to make, so it seems justified 

 

Indy doesn’t look very special despite well made, and i still don’t know why since it’s shot on location as well

[ThomasNicole]

Saw some people saying the climax of Indy 5 is fully bonkers, i’m so curious, watching on SAT 

 

Hopefully not bonkers in Indy 4 style (don’t bother me tbh but everyone hates it for some reason)

[Daf]

6 hours ago, ZattMurdock said:

Actually, I think it’s apt. I’m not sold that M:I is setting the box office on fire either. Interested to see how both films box office runs will go.

 

This'll sound silly but I can honestly see all the talk shows going on hiatus this summer having more of an effect on these older star-driven vehicles than we might think. They might not pull huge audiences but they do reach older demographics with disposable income and an interest in popular culture, and when a big star like Ford or Cruise is involved the shows will often try to get some memeworthy viral publicity stunts going. Hell, Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Mads Mikkelson could've been making the rounds to warm people up to the new characters and such.

 

Beyond that, they're just way more effective promo than all those awful press junket-style interviews which is pretty much all we have at the moment, which always feel like there's someone pointing a gun at the participants off screen.

[ZattMurdock]

I just rewatched Raiders of the Last Ark earlier, before watching Secret Invasion’s ep. 02. It was an wild experience because despite having watched countless times as a kid, I don’t think I’ve watched that one since at very least before Crystal Skull, and I’m not even sure if I watched then. It was surreal because a lot of beats and innuendos that I didn’t notice were a lot more apparent now that I’m older, crazy to see young Alfred Molina too, don’t think I had connected the dots on that before. 
 

With that said, I kinda don’t understand what kind of bonkers shit can happen with an Indiana Jones film. This is clearly an old school 40s inspired matinee franchise where crazy nuke the fridge shit happens since 1981. Bonkers shit happening is very much an Indy thing. What I remember throughly disliking on Crystal Skull wasn’t the plot points, I remember not liking Shia LaBeouf. I don’t remember getting bothered over any of the bonkers 40s style of pastiche adventure from those films, that it’s kinda what Indy’s stories were always about to me.

Edited June 28, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[Liiviig 1998]

4 minutes ago, wildphantom said:

People can associate budgets and box office equating to the failure of a film all they want. They’ve been doing it for years online and on here, especially lately. 

Ultimately, all that matters is that those that enjoy it are allowed to enjoy it without these whiners telling them it’s no good when they haven’t seen it. 

A movie bomb is bomb .

 

Then they are those who whine and want the movie  to  fail.

 

Those two issues are separate.

 

A movie bombing is  just plain  bad and it matters alot . No way around that.

 

Hollywood is very match a business and great or bad movies floping is very bad for the industry as whole including the creatives who will not be given ample support to initiate their projects.

 

Most of the great movies we love today would not be made if their previous installments didn't  make money at the box office.

 

Just like any other business, you can have a great product but if you can't earn shit from it then what's the point because poeple won't be able to experience it or the love ,work and effort you have put into it.

 

The whole all that matters is "those who watched it and enjoyed  it" in subjective sense is fine but in general terms I find it a goalpost.

 

 

 

 

 

[ZattMurdock]

11 minutes ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

A movie bomb is bomb .

 

Then they are those who whine and want the movie  to  fail.

 

Those two issues are separate.

 

A movie bombing is  just plain  bad and it matters alot . No way around that.

 

Hollywood is very match a business and great or bad movies floping is very bad for the industry as whole including the creatives who will not be given ample support to initiate their projects.

 

Most of the great movies we love today would not be made if their previous installments didn't  make money at the box office.

 

Just like any other business, you can have a great product but if you can't earn shit from it then what's the point because poeple won't be able to experience it or the love ,work and effort you have put into it.

 

The whole all that matters is "those who watched it and enjoyed  it" in subjective sense is fine but in general terms I find it a goalpost.

 

 

 

 

 

No one is discussing that. No one is objecting that. What me and others are pointing out is that there is a lenience to let’s say the latest M:I or other BOT darlings that there isn’t really with this one. It’s not out yet, it has one of the best release dates of the summer and despite it’s OW, this isn’t Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3, let alone The Flash. Despite the budget, a film like Dial of Destiny will behave a lot more like M:I or Bond than one from the superhero genre. All I’m saying is, we don’t really know how it’s going to go this weekend, let alone how it will go throughout the 4th of July week, where we’ll be able to paint a better picture of its run domestically.

 

It’s fair to call a bomb well, a bomb. But no one called The Flash a bomb before opening, and no one is likely calling M:I a bomb before it opens either, despite its weak pre-sale’s sorry far.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Daf said:

 

This'll sound silly but I can honestly see all the talk shows going on hiatus this summer having more of an effect on these older star-driven vehicles than we might think. They might not pull huge audiences but they do reach older demographics with disposable income and an interest in popular culture, and when a big star like Ford or Cruise is involved the shows will often try to get some memeworthy viral publicity stunts going. Hell, Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Mads Mikkelson could've been making the rounds to warm people up to the new characters and such.

 

Beyond that, they're just way more effective promo than all those awful press junket-style interviews which is pretty much all we have at the moment, which always feel like there's someone pointing a gun at the participants off screen.

That’s an excellent point. I do think that despite the absence of talk shows, Indy might still have some surprises under that hat when it comes to its box office. We’ll know soon enough.

Edited June 28, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[wildphantom]

In my seat….

hold on to your potatoes!!!

[Lucas]

Also in my seat, FORTUNE AND GLORY KIDS

[JustLurking]

24 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

No one is discussing that. No one is objecting that. What me and others are pointing out is that there is a lenience to let’s say the latest M:I or other BOT darlings that there isn’t really with this one. It’s not out yet, it has one of the best release dates of the summer and despite it’s OW, this isn’t Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3, let alone The Flash. Despite the budget, a film like Dial of Destiny will behave a lot more like M:I or Bond than one from the superhero genre. All I’m saying is, we don’t really know how it’s going to go this weekend, let alone how it will go throughout the 4th of July week, where we’ll be able to paint a better picture of its run domestically.

 

It’s fair to call a bomb well, a bomb. But no one called The Flash a bomb before opening, and no one is likely calling M:I a bomb before it opens either, despite its weak pre-sale’s sorry far.

 

 

That’s an excellent point. I do think that despite the absence of talk shows, Indy might still have some surprises under that hat when it comes to its box office. We’ll know soon enough.

Plenty of people fully knew and said flash was a flop before it opened (that it got rejected by audiences and had awful legs on top was just the next step), and MI is an international franchise while indy's presales are not looking hot in latam and the film is doing poorly in the asian countries it opened in.

 

I don't get this narrative you're trying to portray that people are being any more or less unfair to this film than usual, the film is being judged based on what it's putting up, and those numbers are poor. The people on the tracking thread do an incredible job at pinning down numbers, so while yes, there is some degree of variance we don't know about yet in regards to its opening, that variance is very low.

Edited June 28, 2023 by JustLurking

[M37]

10 hours ago, ThomasNicole said:

Not really, is tracking like 80-100M 5-Day depending on walkups (which are constantly good with this franchise), which is the industry projection as well 

 

It didn’t explode that’s for sure but it’s not underperforming as well, the most likely scenario right now is another movie finishing with 220-250M DOM which is what it’s doing since 4

Think its more that the lower end of those ranges reflect the upper bounds, like $65-$85 and $180-$220. Not terrible, but not a breakout either. But should beat Indy comfortably both domestically and WW.

[MightyDargon]

The big problem with Indy (and this had started during Crystal Skull) is its blatantly clear Ford isn't here for the action scenes. Part of what made the first 3 films good was the physicality of the action scenes. Without that you're basically resorting to loads of CGI tricks.

[ZattMurdock]

21 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

Plenty of people fully knew and said flash was a flop before it opened (that it got rejected by audiences and had awful legs on top was just the next step), and MI is an international franchise while indy's presales are not looking hot in latam and the film is doing poorly in the asian countries it opened in.

 

I don't get this narrative you're trying to portray that people are being any more or less unfair to this film than usual, the film is being judged based on what it's putting up, and those numbers are poor. The people on the tracking thread do an incredible job at pinning down numbers, so while yes, there is some degree of variance we don't know about yet in regards to its opening, that variance is very low.

I wouldn’t count the LATAM market out just yet. And the Asian market other than Japan per the Japan thread was never big on Indiana Jones as far as I know. Key markets for Indiana Jones are imho domestic and Europe, and we will know soon how the film is going to go.

 

A lot of the people on the tracking thread are seasoned BOT people that I follow and respect their efforts for a long time. While one could see the tracking of pre-sales so far is disappointing, I think anyone of those doing this for long enough would agree that looking at Dial of Destiny’s OW alone won’t tell the whole picture, especially with the film basically having the July 4th week for itself. Summer days make for strong weekdays, especially the next few weeks. It stands to reason to say that the nature of walk-ups for an Indiana Jones film is different than for yet another superhero film, aligning a lot more with Bond or M:I films for the sake of comparison.

 

I’m not trying to portray any narrative, I’m commenting on a series of vitriol posts that keep popping on this thread daily for a good while that would likely get people threadbanned if this was let’s say a DCEU property. We all know how ‘special’ and heated those threads can get - or could, rest the DCEU’s soul - and while I’m not advocating this sort of treatment for Indy’s thread, I think it’s only fair to point out that the vitriol for this one seems kinda unwarranted and weird to me.

Edited June 28, 2023 by ZattMurdock