The Hunger Games: Catching Fire (2013)

[elcuervo]

It doesn't matter how she'd die. If she died the rebellion would go crazy.

 

Also, this comes back to how well these characters are written in the film, IMO.

 

President Snow is an egotistical maniac. He was never going to be satisfied purely with Katniss drowning or being killed by a monkey. He needed her to go down in flames, no pun intended. Do you remember when she at the very end, before she shot that arrow into the shield, that she aimed the arrow at Finnick? Snow was salivating. All of Panem would finally see how innocent, sweet, star-crossed Katniss would turn on her allies in an instant; a false beacon of hope. And that fizzled in an instant to his horror. This was not about taking down Katniss, it was about the satisfaction of Snow, IMO.

 

Plutarch showed his cunning by playing up this. He groomed Snow's ego just the right amount. Snow's own ego is his downfall.

[JohnnyGossamer]

It doesn't matter how she'd die. If she died the rebellion would go crazy.

I thought Snow's stated intention is for Katniss to die in the games. Just have the game maker stage it well. Make it resonate. He does want her to die though. From his POV, it was his best option and possibly his only option. That's his plan. I just didn't understand why he wouldn't want complete control/assurance in disposing of such a potent threat rather than take any chance. Then, put one over on the audience in any number of ways by either manipulating the broadcast. Or, using a disposable doppelganger and rig the games for her to make an early departure. She's fortunate to survive the apes, toxic fog, electric shock. If I'm not mistaken, not all the players were in on it. Much of the game maker's plan hinged heavily on luck and pure faith. Again, probably explained well in the novel. In the film, it seemed cloudy.

 

It's really doesn't even bother me much. I only brought it up initially because it seemed odd to me two important/powerful guys just seemed to leave an awful lot to chance in their respective plans.

 

Both were outstanding in their roles I thought. I enjoyed very much when either of them were on screen.

Edited November 25, 2013 by JohnnyGossamer

[elcuervo]

I thought Snow's stated intention is for Katniss to die in the games. Just have the game maker stage it well. Make it resonate. He does want her to die though. From his POV, it was his best option and possibly his only option. That's his plan. I just didn't understand why he wouldn't want complete control/assurance in disposing of such a potent threat rather than take any chance. Then, put one over on the audience in any number of ways by either manipulating the broadcast. Or, using a disposable doppelganger and rig the games for her to make an early departure. She's fortunate to survive the apes, toxic fog, electric shock. If I'm not mistaken, not all the players were in on it. Much of the game maker's plan hinged heavily of luck and pure faith. Again, probably explained well in the novel. In the film, it seemed cloudy.

 

Again, it's Snow's ego. He want's Katniss to go down as a traitorous, lying, two-faced pariah. He wanted more than simple death. Plutarch made that appeal to Snow and he bit at it like a rabid dog.

Edited November 25, 2013 by elcuervo

[JohnnyGossamer]

Again, it's Snow's ego. He want's Katniss to go down as a traitorous, lying, two-faced pariah. He wanted more than simple death. Plutarch made that appeal to Snow and he bit at it like a rabid dog.

I understand that. So, then game was rigged in that: Katniss couldn't trip, fall, hit her head and be consumed by the toxic fog? No rabid ape would attack Katniss, in the event that she ran out arrows or wasn't quick enough to aims and fire? Went the clock violently spun, she wouldn't be flung into a rock or injured by a flying weapon? Or the massive electric shock from the tree wrapped in coils she was standing directly next to was just enough to render her unconscious but not kill her? Was it manipulated to that extent?  I honestly don't know. Again, I haven't read the novels. Or, I may have missed it in the movie. I understand they helped her along with game players sacrificing themselves, others aiding in the plan to end the game.

 

If Snow's foolish enough to leave that much to chance at least vet the shit outta the guy you're hiring to replace guy that you just killed because she he failed to get the job done. I understand he desined games before. There would be trust. But, this is pivotal to Snow. Grumblings of revolution. When a villain's an egotist to the extreme that his plans become foolhardy in a pretty straight-faced movie, he doesn't seem much of threat. He's too dumb to do it right. Ensure he gets the desired result. After all, he is the powerful man in the Hunger world.

Edited November 25, 2013 by JohnnyGossamer

[elcuervo]

I understand that. So, then game was rigged in that: Katniss couldn't trip, fall, hit her head and be consumed by the toxic fog? No rabid ape would attack Katniss, in the event that she ran out arrows or wasn't quick enough to aims and fire? Went the clock violently spun, she wouldn't be flung into a rock or injured by a flying weapon? Or the massive electric shock from the tree wrapped in coils she was standing directly next to was just enough to render her unconscious but not kill her? Was it manipulated to that extent?  I honestly don't know. Again, I haven't read the novels. Or, I may have missed it in the movie. I understand they helped her along with game players sacrificing themselves, others aiding in the plan to end the game.

 

Well, no. The plan obviously isn't foolproof. Not everything was going to happen the way Plutarch and the conspiring rebels wanted it to happen.

[JohnnyGossamer]

Well, no. The plan obviously isn't foolproof. Not everything was going to happen the way Plutarch and the conspiring rebels wanted it to happen.

Yes. I agree, Plutarch had to concoct a somewhat foolhardy plan. His only option. At that, not executed all too well if she has to fire an arrow attached to a line of coil while standing next to a giant tree coated in the same coil and survive an immense voltage charge for it to work. Or was that not part of the plan?

 

Snow, on the other hand, I don't understand him leaving so much to chance. Ego or no, it's plain dumb on his behalf. Borderline cartoonish... That's why I felt a tone more akin to Robocop would suit the saga better. Just feel the material, being richly satirical, lends itself to that sensibility.

[Noctis]

Anyone who thought that they could have just killed Katniss is out of their mind and CLEARLY didn't understand the film. Killing her would have caused an enormous rebellion immediately.

[CloneWars]

Is the social commentary/satire more marked and examined in the novel? That's where I was let down most. Just seems very stunted in the film.

 

Is there a compelling enough reason they kept the secret from Katniss? While she's too morally righteous to go for it, it still doesn't seem reason enough. Is Katniss more and more impotent as her saga plays out? She's essentially powerless now and just a marionette for smarter/wiser people than herself. If that's the case, why am I not watching a much more compelling story play out with Woody H. Phillip S.H. and Donald S with Stanely T. lending with oddball charm broadcasting to the herd?

 

Seeing her rage in the final frame just had me smirking. They're already smarter than her. Just about everyone around her actually seems more clever. What's she going to do... Being her strengths are bow and arrow weilding and courage, she's forever at a disadvantage. She's easily outwitted. Or, it appears so in the films...

 

Will these become more visually interesting movies? Any exciting/daring set pieces, rather than recycled ones in Catching Fire, due up in the MockingJay story?

 

Is there a reason, with all the technology at play and Snow controlling media, he cannot stage her perfect death, a la Running Man. Then, in the while, capture and murder her, Peeta, etc. The fact that Snow's not capable of designing a capable plan's somewhat outlandish and makes he and his cohorts appear dumb and childish.

 

Is Gale good for more than a makeout and a flogging? Is he really as boring as he reads in these movies. If so, hope he's killed early in the next one. Sames goes for Peeta. Neutering the love triange would really allow F. Lawrence more time to focus the narrative on the far more compelling machinations at work... And, as a positive, characters die and do it often in Hunger reality... Is anything going to happen in MJ1 for it not feel like less a standalone film than Catching Fire already does?

 

A common problem I have with YA literature, even Potter, is  Ioften feel as if I'm following one of the least interesting characters in the story. Guess it's just how they often play out. Ender's a pawn. Potter's Dumbledore's pawn. Katniss as well. I think a more interesting film has us in on reveal that she's just Phillip S.H. queen on the chess board. I would further empathize with her while it would also enrich the characterization of he, Woody H, etc.

 

I wish these films had more of a Verhoeven edge... The edge and explotation he lended to Robocop, Starship Troopers and Black Book. That kind of tone, muted enough for the PG13 rating, would complement this saga. Give it more of a punch when it takes swings at society.

The reason Snow doesn't kill Katniss is because the Game Maker is playing Snow. He is keeping Katniss alive because he is against Snow and needs Katniss for his own plans. In other words, Snow was outsmarted. Also, even though Snow runs the country, he put Plutarch in charge of the Games. So, Plutarch was overseeing everything and every now and then Snow would check in and see what the status update was.

[AniNate]

Quite good. More emotional than the first and helped by the steadier camera. I did think the visual fx were rather lackluster but that's something I can live with. Looking forward to Mockingjay. A-

[The Toymaker]

The love triangle was hardly in the movie at all

Precisely my point. Hemsworth is wasted and relegated to a few kisses and hugs. For a 2hr 20min film, to concentrate on just one plotline suggests a very bad and sloppy narrative structure.

[friendofnarnia]

For a 2hr 20min film, to concentrate on just one plotline suggests a very bad and sloppy narrative structure.

The "love triangle" is just one of the many subplots. It is certainly not the main plot line.I thought the first film was good (7.5), but this one affected me much more emotional level. The world seemed bigger and more real. The direction, script, and acting couldn't have been better, and it was probably the best book to film adaption I've ever seen. Truly an amazing, incredible film.9.5/10

[elcuervo]

Precisely my point. Hemsworth is wasted and relegated to a few kisses and hugs. For a 2hr 20min film, to concentrate on just one plotline suggests a very bad and sloppy narrative structure.

 

I think this is the first time I've ever heard someone say that concentrating mainly on one plotline suggests a sloppy narrative. lol.

[Leyla]

 

 

I have to agree. Ending the final shot with the look on Katniss face was the way to go.

@ that scene I had a total dejavu feeling b/c it 100% reminded me of ROTK's 'Frodo is carried away after the Mt Doom' scene

 

I must need to read novels. All the principal characters bore the hell out me. Katniss, who I found very compelling in 1, just dull as hell. I just wanted to watch Woody H. and Stanley T. and Liz B. They had charisma. Fun to watch 'em work. Sheesh. I don't know where to start. The satire that played pretty stale in 1 is just downright mold-riddled here. Lacks punch and precision. Just there for sake of being there. Not witty enough to stick and not sharp enough to provoke thought. 

 

When someone mentioned J. Lawrence cutting loose, I at first thought of the director, F. Lawerence. Not the most talented guy around but certainly suffers from being reigned in here. Pretty dull filmmaking. Not a single set piece or action beat I'll remember or care to revisit. Oops... I forgot to mention Geoffrey Wright, dude's a beast. I enjoy the older cast enough to recommend it on mildest of levels to a casual moviegoer. After seeing this I also felt it could have been covered in 90 minutes or less and bled into the next. Just not enough there for lengthy saga.

 

I appreciate fans of the novels digging it wholesale. I did the same with 3 of the 8 Potter flicks. Just not feeling this at all. Plays out like a poor man's mishmash of superior average blockbusters. Movies like Running Man, Matrix Reloaded, Logan's Run, The Condemned. I didn't feel the same way about 1. But, this go 'round, I couldn't fight it. By the way, none of the aforementioned left a lasting impression but all of 'em left more an impression than this slog. Also, cinematographty and choreography fell flat. Just not my jam, I guess.

 

C- to avoid a total thrashing of labeling it the D+ I truly think it deserves. Utterly forgettable.

happy that not everyone says its the best thing since sliced bread  I wish I was as brave as you. I wanted to put a C (maybe 4 diff reasons than you but still I disliked it more than liked) too but chickened  now im brave & will be honest

Edited November 25, 2013 by Leyla

[4815162342]

The ending definitely suffers a bit from trying to be as faithful to the letter of the novel as possible that it just apes scenes with no creative spark. The film would be better served to have done more structural liberty to draw out better push on the revelations and for Katniss' reaction. She looked like she was having facial microseizures after hearing the D12 news.

[Kvikk Lunsj]

Best Blockbuster of the summer.

 

Hunger Games was just ok, It was very poorly directed. Francis Lawrence however delivers the goods and brings this franchise to another level. There is now a sense a scope of a world bigger then us. It feels like a movie and I love that. Katniss falling in love with Peeta was done so naturally and beautifully. All the actors bring there A game. Lawrence of course steals the show and gives a truly award contending performance. You can't take your eyes of Sutherland in every scene and Hoffman was a great addition. Mocking Jay is now one of my most anticipated movies after that ending.

 

to some it up, Catching Fire was like Matrix Reloaded of the Hunger Games, but excellent

 

A (94)

So it is summer still? 

[dashrendar44]

So it is summer still? 

 

It's always summer in Cali.

[iceroll]

Why the hell did you give Catching Fire a D when you haven't even seen it Ozymandias/Shpongle?  Don't be such a turd.

[K1stpierre]

Also, this comes back to how well these characters are written in the film, IMO.

 

President Snow is an egotistical maniac. He was never going to be satisfied purely with Katniss drowning or being killed by a monkey. He needed her to go down in flames, no pun intended. Do you remember when she at the very end, before she shot that arrow into the shield, that she aimed the arrow at Finnick? Snow was salivating. All of Panem would finally see how innocent, sweet, star-crossed Katniss would turn on her allies in an instant; a false beacon of hope. And that fizzled in an instant to his horror. This was not about taking down Katniss, it was about the satisfaction of Snow, IMO.

 

Plutarch showed his cunning by playing up this. He groomed Snow's ego just the right amount. Snow's own ego is his downfall.

This 100%

[Ozymandias]

Why the hell did you give Catching Fire a D when you haven't even seen it Ozymandias/Shpongle?  Don't be such a turd.

 

Haha, I just picked one so I could see what everyone is voting.  I'll delete it for you.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Ozymandias

[BoxOfficeZ]

Finally saw it.

 

Excellent film. Acting was all top notch from everyone, though the guy who plays Peeta I can't say i care much about him. Lawrence was fantastic. The people who played Finnick and Johana did pretty good. 

 

You really had a sense there really was a world there, Peacekeepers, starving districts, rich glamour of the capitol. Awesome costumes.

 

Music was okay, was only prominent for me in the District 11 scene.

 

The tv host is my favorite guy.

 

A-