The Dark Knight Vs. The Dark Knight Rises. Stingray Showdown.

[The Panda]

what a snob!Sure, professional critics don't have any "decent knowledge of cinema"

Look at most of the critics, the majority claim it to be really good or even great, but I see very few masterpiece reviews.Honestly take away the Joker and what do you have? Heath Ledger and his character are what make the film, all the other elements are either decent or weak. (That's one of the reason's TDK is far superior to TDKR)

[ChD]

First, billions have not seen it, millions sure but I doubt even half a billion people have seen it.Second, not everyone hails it as a masterpiece, that's your assumption, actually a large amount of people do not hail it as a masterpiece, especially anybody wiith a decent knowledge of cinema. I'm talking about the devoted fan base that proclaims anything Nolan touches gold because he is Nolan and he can do no wrong.The Dark Knight is one of Nolan's best and one of the best comic book films, and one of the best of 2008 but it's to flawed and lacks the depth to be a masterpiece. Then again, some people use the term lightly (either because they haven't seen a lot of movies or their inner fanboy goes wild to see a batman movie taken seriously)

 

Ok, Mr. Big Shot. As you say. TDK isn't a masterpiece and Heath Ledger's performance is the worst winning Oscar one. Gotcha.

 

Just because you didn't like it, and because you THINK you are some cinema expert, doesn't mean the movie isn't actually good.

 

If that goes so. Lord of The Rings is a dull, boring movie that fails to connect with audience (audience meaning ME, as you said it, too). It cured my insomnia, therefore everyone else who thinks it's a master piece is a fucking dumbass and needs to get their shit together.

[ChD]

I never said the Dark Knight sucks, I really enjoy the film and it's one of my favorite comic book films, but a masterpiece is a major stretch.

 

Again, you're not god. If you do not like it, It doesn't mean it's not a masterpiece. Deal with it.

[tawasal]

enough with your hate preach panda, if you dont like it then you dont like it enough. stop acting like speak for everyone and saying that people who view this movie as a masterpiece are dump.

[Phil in the Blank]

I never said the Dark Knight sucks, I really enjoy the film and it's one of my favorite comic book films, but a masterpiece is a major stretch.

 

Perhaps in your eyes, but not in others. Art is by its very nature subjective, and while we can argue till we are blue in the face film is always going to touch us in different ways based on our own experiences and likes/dislikes. What you may see as shallow and lacking of substance, others may find to be deep with substance over-flowing and vice-versa. If you expect others to take your opinion seriously being able to provide rational reasoning to back up your viewpoint can never go astray, but regardless of how well you can defend your own thoughts and opinions, they are still your thoughts and opinions and no stretch is required to consider something a masterpiece. For example, Baumer may very well feel that Twilight is a masterpiece and while that is a major stretch for me to come to grips that he actually thinks that way, its not a major stretch for him to think that way, for his opinions are his own and does not need mine or anyone else's approval for that thinking.

 

Personally I find TDK to be a masterpiece of blockbuster entertainment despite its flaws. Has it got incredible depth? No, although I certainly wouldn't call it shallow (its quite complex compared to the average blockbuster), but it is highly entertaining with enough 'meat' on it to keep me interested in future viewings. I can't ask for anything more from a blockbuster and its certainly a movie I can hold up as an example of a quality big budget flick whose standard I wish more movies could attain. That is why it is a masterpiece to me.

[tawasal]

Perhaps in your eyes, but not in others. Art is by its very nature subjective, and while we can argue till we are blue in the face film is always going to touch us in different ways based on our own experiences and likes/dislikes. What you may see as shallow and lacking of substance, others may find to be deep with substance over-flowing and vice-versa. If you expect others to take your opinion seriously being able to provide rational reasoning to back up your viewpoint can never go astray, but regardless of how well you can defend your own thoughts and opinions, they are still your thoughts and opinions and no stretch is required to consider something a masterpiece. For example, Baumer may very well feel that Twilight is a masterpiece and while that is a major stretch for me to come to grips that he actually thinks that way, its not a major stretch for him to think that way, for his opinions are his own and does not need mine or anyone else's approval for that thinking. Personally I find TDK to be a masterpiece of blockbuster entertainment despite its flaws. Has it got incredible depth? No, although I certainly wouldn't call it shallow (its quite complex compared to the average blockbuster), but it is highly entertaining with enough 'meat' on it to keep me interested in future viewings. I can't ask for anything more from a blockbuster and its certainly a movie I can hold up as an example of a quality big budget flick whose standard I wish more movies could attain. That is why it is a masterpiece to me.

Panda I will only listen to your words, if you can view things like this man, instead of basing things through your hatred.

[The Panda]

Ok, Mr. Big Shot. As you say. TDK isn't a masterpiece and Heath Ledger's performance is the worst winning Oscar one. Gotcha.Just because you didn't like it, and because you THINK you are some cinema expert, doesn't mean the movie isn't actually good.If that goes so. Lord of The Rings is a dull, boring movie that fails to connect with audience (audience meaning ME, as you said it, too). It cured my insomnia, therefore everyone else who thinks it's a master piece is a fucking dumbass and needs to get their shit together.

I never said Heath Ledger's performance was the worst win (I actually support his win thank you very much), I also NEVER said The Dark Knight wasn't good, I clearly stated it's one of my favorite comic book movies, I just don't agree that it's a masterpiece and it's a major stretch of the word to call it one.Stop putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

[ChD]

I never said Heath Ledger's performance was the worst win (I actually support his win thank you very much), I also NEVER said The Dark Knight wasn't good, I clearly stated it's one of my favorite comic book movies, I just don't agree that it's a masterpiece and it's a major stretch of the word to call it one.Stop putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

 

That second part, with Heath Ledger Oscar winning, was just something I added just to show you how ridiculous your statement that The Dark Knight isn't a masterpiece, sounded. And it's not that you didn't just agree, you downright said that whoever thought it was a master piece had no idea what they were talking about, just like you were some cinema god of some sorts.

[The Panda]

Perhaps in your eyes, but not in others. Art is by its very nature subjective, and while we can argue till we are blue in the face film is always going to touch us in different ways based on our own experiences and likes/dislikes. What you may see as shallow and lacking of substance, others may find to be deep with substance over-flowing and vice-versa. If you expect others to take your opinion seriously being able to provide rational reasoning to back up your viewpoint can never go astray, but regardless of how well you can defend your own thoughts and opinions, they are still your thoughts and opinions and no stretch is required to consider something a masterpiece. For example, Baumer may very well feel that Twilight is a masterpiece and while that is a major stretch for me to come to grips that he actually thinks that way, its not a major stretch for him to think that way, for his opinions are his own and does not need mine or anyone else's approval for that thinking.Personally I find TDK to be a masterpiece of blockbuster entertainment despite its flaws. Has it got incredible depth? No, although I certainly wouldn't call it shallow (its quite complex compared to the average blockbuster), but it is highly entertaining with enough 'meat' on it to keep me interested in future viewings. I can't ask for anything more from a blockbuster and its certainly a movie I can hold up as an example of a quality big budget flick whose standard I wish more movies could attain. That is why it is a masterpiece to me.

I can understand that, and it's a well-held opinion, I just stated my opinion here and I got people responding to it (I believe I said I found Nolan to be overrated or something to that) and it escalated and then people played me out to be some sort of villain because I didn't hold The Dark Knight on as high as a pedestal as they did. (I didn't even say I disliked it)

[The Panda]

That second part, with Heath Ledger Oscar winning, was just something I added just to show you how ridiculous your statement that The Dark Knight isn't a masterpiece, sounded. And it's not that you didn't just agree, you downright said that whoever thought it was a master piece had no idea what they were talking about, just like you were some cinema god of some sorts.

Yes, but you put an opinion on me that I didn't have. I just view masterpieces as very specific and things that very rarely show up, most years I don't think any film is worthy of the title, but just because I don't think something's a masterpiece doesn't make me not think it's a great film, or an actor isn't deserving of the oscar they won. (I actually go by the opinion that whatever wins the oscar deserved it, because the overall opinion prevails, same with rotten tomatoes scores.)

[tawasal]

I can understand that, and it's a well-held opinion, I just stated my opinion here and I got people responding to it (I believe I said I found Nolan to be overrated or something to that) and it escalated and then people played me out to be some sort of villain because I didn't hold The Dark Knight on as high as a pedestal as they did. (I didn't even say I disliked it)

 

Who cares if you do or don't. I sure as hell don't and you know damn well, that this discussion was never about your taste in movies, but that you think you have got it all figured out. How stupid must you be to think that you speak for everybody, that's just what closed minded people filled with hatred for a movie do. 

[The Panda]

Who cares if you do or don't. I sure as hell don't and you know damn well, that this discussion was never about your taste in movies, but that you think you have got it all figured out. How stupid must you be to think that you speak for everybody, that's just what closed minded people filled with hatred for a movie do.

I have no hatred for the Dark Knight, I have stated a lot I like it, and I have not spoken for everybody, another misconception of my opinion you are placing on me.

[rukaio101]

Perhaps it would cool people's tempers, Panda, if you explain exactly what you think makes a movie a masterpiece and why you don't think The Dark Knight is one.

 

Or it may just make them more mad. Either way, I get some entertainment.

[dashrendar44]

[Omario]

The Dark Knight is a masterpiece. The Dark Knight Rises is close to it though.

 

Repeat viewings plays key here. TDK flows coherently. TDKR has some weak plot devices, which I don't think hinder it too much but are at times far-fetched.

 

TDKR is 10/10 because I enjoyed it that much but when put up against TDK its a 9/10. 

[baumer]

What a shock, one more thread where Panda tells us that his opinion is the only one that matters.  

 

[baumer]

Look at most of the critics, the majority claim it to be really good or even great, but I see very few masterpiece reviews.Honestly take away the Joker and what do you have? Heath Ledger and his character are what make the film, all the other elements are either decent or weak. (That's one of the reason's TDK is far superior to TDKR)

 

So as long as the critics say it's a masterpiece, it's a masterpiece?  Ok, now I get it.

 

Citizen Kane:  Critical darling and avoided by the public, masterpiece according to Panda.

The Dark Knight: Not a masterpiece because critics don't think so.

 

Do you have any of your own opinions or are you influenced by what others think?

[DAR]

Loves both

[tawasal]

TDK by default, but both movies were ridiculous.. The bank heist scene in TDK was as unrealistic as it gets, especially in a movie involving cell phones and how no one uses their cell phone to dial 911 when the JOKER crashes his school bus into the side of the bank.. Considering how grounded in reality Nolan insisted on these movies being, that must've been a major flaw he overlooked cause the Police would've been there in record time and gunned him down enabling BATMAN to have the night off..

 

By the way, this thread will never end well you know and on that note, I'm outa here before you know who shows up and I end up Banned again..

 

As long as that is your opinion, which you are fully entitled to, I don't care if you say it's awful. Just as long as you specify it to be yours and not everyone's, and that my friends is where Panda is lacking some brain to use.  

Edited November 27, 2013 by Crispylips

[DAR]

And most comic book movies are inherently silly in some ways.  I mean the bank heist is no sillier than finding the Tesseract or preventing the city of New York from turning into lizards.  You just have to decide if you're going to with it and I do.