No Time To Die | October 8 2021 | 82% on RT | RIP Sean Connery

[lilmac]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:54 AM, MrFanaticGuy34 said:

And the tradition of a potentially great odd-numbered Craig Bond-movie might continue if it’s as good as Casino Royale and Skyfall.

 

I don't know how they'd do it but every subsequent Bond movie needs to be even-numbered. 😊

Edited January 28, 2020 by lilmac

[Hatebox]

The even numbered ones are crap partly because they thought people liked serialisation in Bond movies. Quantum literally carried on from Casino's last scene while Spectre had the audacity to imply all of Craig's previous villains were part of Blofeld's grand plan. 

 

Jury's still out on how far down that rabbit hole this movie will jump, but the trailer makes me nervous. 

[Burgess]

The even numbered ones are crap partly because they thought people liked serialisation in Bond movies. Quantum literally carried on from Casino's last scene while Spectre had the audacity to imply all of Craig's previous villains were part of Blofeld's grand plan. 
 
Jury's still out on how far down that rabbit hole this movie will jump, but the trailer makes me nervous. 

To be fair, I don’t think the moral of the story is that audiences don’t want serialization in Bond films but that QOS and SP don’t completely work. Although, both have admirable, even good, elements.

Also, QOS and SP were both box offices successes. QOS made $586m against CR’s $599, and SP made $880, which is the sixth highest grossing film of 2015.

I think people are underestimating Bond’s box office appeal and over stating the course correction necessary for NTTD to be a box office and critical success. SP left a bad taste in people’s mouths but so did Die Another Day, and the following film (CR) became the highest grossing and most critically acclaimed Bond film of its day.


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[Hatebox]

32 minutes ago, Burgess said:

To be fair, I don’t think the moral of the story is that audiences don’t want serialization in Bond films but that QOS and SP don’t completely work. Although, both have admirable, even good, elements.

 

I think it's a symptom rather than a cause, insofar as writers who indulge that style of storytelling fundamentally misunderstand the appeal of the films and that misunderstanding often seeps its way into other aspects of the script. 

 

NTTD is starting on the backfoot in that regard as they can't really ignore his new girlfriend, so I'll go easy until I see it. But the trailer really seems to labouring under the impression people loved Spectre. 

[Burgess]

I think it's a symptom rather than a cause, insofar as writers who indulge that style of storytelling fundamentally misunderstand the appeal of the films and that misunderstanding often seeps its way into other aspects of the script. 
 
NTTD is starting on the backfoot in that regard as they can't really ignore his new girlfriend, so I'll go easy until I see it. But the trailer really seems to labouring under the impression people loved Spectre. 

I don’t think the filmmakers are oblivious to Spectre’s reception but they obviously feel there’s a satisfying ending to tell. I feel the trailer was less of a teaser and more of a level set after five years.


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[dudalb]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 10:07 AM, OncomingStorm93 said:

No Time To Die should safely cross $800m, and settle in as the #2 earning Bond film behind Skyfall. I don't think Skyfall will be topped, given the confluence of events that led to that film's success (50 year anniversary, Adele's popular song, stand alone/character driven story, Javier Bardem)

 

Unless this film is as well produced and cohesive as Skyfall (which I currently doubt, given NTTD's troubled production history), Billie's song is as attention-grabbing as Adele's (that's a big ask for a teenager), and Rami Malek's antagonist transcends the genre (I freaking love Rami but acknowledge he's not yet reached the global appeal of Bardem), this film will fall just short.

 

Normally, one would think the "finale factor" would boost NTTD, but given the nature of Bond films (just keep recasting the role), I don't think NTTD would benefit greatly from Craig departing. Die Another Day was the highest earning film for Pierce (but not if you adjust for inflation, GoldenEye wins). I am unable to determine if DAD was produced or marketed with the knowledge that Pierce was leaving the role.

 

Also, the rest of the NTTD marketing campaign needs to establish the character stakes instead of leaning on what seems to be a complicated plot with lots of moving pieces. The teaser was all over the place (gotta love Universal's marketing team!). Final trailer needs to hone in on Bond's personal journey.

 

I'm going to predict $85m OW, $225m DOM, $900m WW. I could see the international numbers being lower if this film is more Americanized.

People forget the incredible free publicity Skyfall got because of the 50th Anniversary.

I actually think this kind of very good but not phenomonial boxoffice is where the Star Wars Franchsie is heading.

DAD is interesting in that despite it being the highest grossing of the Brosnan bonds, it was not well received, and Eon decided it was time for 180 degree turn and bring Bond back down to earth. Same thing happened with "Moonraker/For Your Eyes Only".

I suspect this would have happened even if Brosnan had stayed on.

The assumption was that Brosnan would stay for one more Bond film during the making of "DAD" but  that very mixed reaction that film got (think Batman Vs Superman..a lot of people paid to see it but had real problems with a lot of what they saw), concern about Brosnan's age (Brosnan had concerns he would go one film too many as Bond a la Roger Moore but felt the fans wanted him back) and some feuding with EON led to Borsnan leaving. What exactly happened depends on who you listen to.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by dudalb

[antovolk]

People speculating either the song debuts there or Eilish is doing In Memoriam...

[ddddeeee]

 

Remember when Barry wrote a theme that's even better than the Monty Norman (as arranged by Barry) classic? What a power move.

[dudalb]

11 hours ago, ddddeeee said:

 

Remember when Barry wrote a theme that's even better than the Monty Norman (as arranged by Barry) classic? What a power move.

Great theme, and the Louis Armstrong song has become a classic also.

I rate OHMSS as one of the five best Bond films. and if we had had a stronger Bond, (Lazenby is not bad, but his inexperience as an actor shows) it would have been the best Bond film.

I think Lazenby is right when he said they should have Introduced him in  another Bond film where playing Bond was not as demanding to ease him into the role, get some acting experience under his belt, then do OMHMSS.

[murphydog]

Re: Spectre, the more I watch it, the more I am convinced it wasn't the script as much as it was Lea and Christoph being totally miscast in very critical roles.  Vs QOS where the problem was the script itself.  From the trailers Lashana Lynch looks like she is going to absolutely nail her character, and we've seen little of Ana (which makes me think she'll be onscreen for all of ten minutes) but she's been delivering lately.  Hopefully those two can offset Lea, and hopefully Christoph is relegated to one scene and Rami delivers (not really a Rami guy, at all really, but optimistic for him in this role anyway).

 

But ultimately I don't really see Spectre affecting this one at the BO.  At the end of the day, this is the final outing of a James Bond actor who had two films that I would imagine many would rank amongst the absolute best Bond films ever.  And unlike Star Wars whose most recent "final entry" film suffered likely due to fans divisiveness over previous entries in the reboot, there has been a lot of room for the franchise to breath and thus even fans who were put off by Spectre will be in for NTTD because there has been a void in the market.  SW released five films in between Spectre and NTTD and that, more than anything, was their fatal flaw.  SW and Bond films need to float on rarefied air of "oh my God, is it that time again?" and I have a lot of confidence for NTTD five years away from Spectre where I might have been more nervous if they were only two years apart.

EDITED TO ADD: Speaking of Lashana, it is INSANE to me that Lupita passed on her role for Simon Kinberg's 355.  With Kinberg at the helm and a January dump release date, it looks like it might have been a very bad decision.  Then again she's passed on all sorts of stuff I consider crazy and ended up in some great projects nonetheless, so maybe she knows something about NTTD script that we don't yet.

Edited January 30, 2020 by murphydog

[Burgess]

Re: Spectre, the more I watch it, the more I am convinced it wasn't the script as much as it was Lea and Christoph being totally miscast in very critical roles.  Vs QOS where the problem was the script itself.  From the trailers Lashana Lynch looks like she is going to absolutely nail her character, and we've seen little of Ana (which makes me think she'll be onscreen for all of ten minutes) but she's been delivering lately.  Hopefully those two can offset Lea, and hopefully Christoph is relegated to one scene and Rami delivers (not really a Rami guy, at all really, but optimistic for him in this role anyway).
 
But ultimately I don't really see Spectre affecting this one at the BO.  At the end of the day, this is the final outing of a James Bond actor who had two films that I would imagine many would rank amongst the absolute best Bond films ever.  And unlike Star Wars whose most recent "final entry" film suffered likely due to fans divisiveness over previous entries in the reboot, there has been a lot of room for the franchise to breath and thus even fans who were put off by Spectre will be in for NTTD because there has been a void in the market.  SW released five films in between Spectre and NTTD and that, more than anything, was their fatal flaw.  SW and Bond films need to float on rarefied air of "oh my God, is it that time again?" and I have a lot of confidence for NTTD five years away from Spectre where I might have been more nervous if they were only two years apart.

EDITED TO ADD: Speaking of Lashana, it is INSANE to me that Lupita passed on her role for Simon Kinberg's 355.  With Kinberg at the helm and a January dump release date, it looks like it might have been a very bad decision.  Then again she's passed on all sorts of stuff I consider crazy and ended up in some great projects nonetheless, so maybe she knows something about NTTD script that we don't yet.

From what I’ve read, Lupita turned down NTTD because of scheduling conflicts. Interestingly, Rami’s scheduling conflicts between NTTD and Mr. Robot were resolved because Universal stepped in. Universal produced Mr. Robot and is releasing NTTD overseas.


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[murphydog]

14 minutes ago, Burgess said:

 

From what I’ve read, Lupita turned down NTTD because of scheduling conflicts. Interestingly, Rami’s scheduling conflicts between NTTD and Mr. Robot were resolved because Universal stepped in. Universal produced Mr. Robot and is releasing NTTD overseas.


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I may be wrong here, but I believe the scheduling conflict was 355 which she signed on to after she was offered Bond.  She was offered Bond first, as well as the lead role in a John Woo remake of The Killer, and was circling both seriously with her fans positive she'd be in both.  And then ended up signing on to 355 instead, thus cancelling her role in both projects.

[Burgess]

 
I may be wrong here, but I believe the scheduling conflict was 355 which she signed on to after she was offered Bond.  She was offered Bond first, as well as the lead role in a John Woo remake of The Killer, and was circling both seriously with her fans positive she'd be in both.  And then ended up signing on to 355 instead, thus cancelling her role in both projects.

You’re right. I didn’t mean to sound as if I was offering an alternative narrative.


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[murphydog]

7 minutes ago, Burgess said:

 

You’re right. I didn’t mean to sound as if I was offering an alternative narrative.


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Ahh gotcha.  Lupita is so interesting to me because there are all these articles about how Hollywood should try to cast her more and that she isn't getting as many opportunities as white actresses, but I know of many, many "Big 6" studio films she's passed on that she could have easily done with her schedule.  Most of them did not end up being good movies so she was probably in the right on most of them, but it's clear that she is being thrown a ton of stuff and Hollywood has been desperate to have her in their projects, but she is only interested in working on very select films.  And her Rotten Tomatoes record for her films has been extremely good, so it may be a smart move than to take the Red Sparrow/Gangster Squad movies that J-Law and Emma Stone will take just to have a crowded schedule.

 

So I don't know if that means she thought 355 was a better script than Bond, which would make me nervous for NTTD since Kinberg and a January dump date for 355 inspire no confidence in me for teh quality of that movie, or if she was more interested in doing an all female film.  But from what I've seen of Lashana in the trailer, she's going to nail it and the role looks great.

Edited January 31, 2020 by murphydog

[Burgess]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7956427/James-Bond-film-No-Time-Die-longest-180-minute-running-time.html


No Time to Die runs to two hours and 54 minutes - though it may get longer

The near-three hour film is a 'big gamble' for producers, a film critic said

The script was 'constantly added to' and plot was changing, a source alleged

Daniel Craig brought Phoebe Waller-Bridge in to make the script more 'woke'

She was adding in pages and team were shooting more, making it 'chaotic'

There’s a lot of hyperbole in the article but I think the takeaway is that this film will be Craig’s epic send off.


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[JWR]

6 hours ago, Burgess said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7956427/James-Bond-film-No-Time-Die-longest-180-minute-running-time.html


No Time to Die runs to two hours and 54 minutes - though it may get longer

The near-three hour film is a 'big gamble' for producers, a film critic said

The script was 'constantly added to' and plot was changing, a source alleged

Daniel Craig brought Phoebe Waller-Bridge in to make the script more 'woke'

She was adding in pages and team were shooting more, making it 'chaotic'

There’s a lot of hyperbole in the article but I think the takeaway is that this film will be Craig’s epic send off.


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So it appears the 3-hour runtime wasn't a rumor. 

[Avatree]

that's nothing more than a rumour on that article.

[35MM-18]

8 hours ago, Burgess said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7956427/James-Bond-film-No-Time-Die-longest-180-minute-running-time.html

No Time to Die runs to two hours and 54 minutes - though it may get longer

So long as the pacing's consistent and doesn't crawl, I can live with this.

[lorddemaxus]

So I'll be watching the Bond films before this. I'll try to watch all of them but are there any absolutely terrible pre-Craig era ones that I could skip?

[Hatebox]

1 hour ago, lorddemaxus said:

So I'll be watching the Bond films before this. I'll try to watch all of them but are there any absolutely terrible pre-Craig era ones that I could skip?

The skippable ones outweigh the must-see ones, but Diamonds Are Forever, The Man With The Golden Gun, Octopussy, A View To A Kill, The World Is Not Enough and Die Another Day are probably more skippable than the rest. (I  won't say Moonraker as the finale has to be seen to be believed.)