Ghost in the Shell | March 31, 2017 | Scarlett Johansson | Paramount | New Trailer on page 43!!!

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, Mulder said:

That's not white. That's just how anime looks.

Nope the 1995 anime has more detail in the faces than most animes.

 

She has causation bone structure, nose and eyes. You're wrong!

[IronJimbo]

3 minutes ago, CoolioD1 said:

it is true that a lot of anime draws their characters to look pretty white. there's a lot of anime characters where it's easier to find a white actor who looks like them. but when you put it in reality and there's all these white people in japan it still looks off so idk.

We're talking about 1995 ghost in a shell, you're talking about anime in general

[CoolioD1]

tbh i said early in the thread i had no problem w/ the casting cos i just assumed it was gonna relocate the story. i'm not 100% sure why they didn't do that beyond being afraid to try anything different aesthetically for fear of mad fanboys (and don't give me the "the story is SOOO specific to Japan!" stuff. don't need it.)

[Mulder]

1 minute ago, CoolioD1 said:

tbh i said early in the thread i had no problem w/ the casting cos i just assumed it was gonna relocate the story. i'm not 100% sure why they didn't do that beyond being afraid to try anything different aesthetically for fear of mad fanboys (and don't give me the "the story is SOOO specific to Japan!" stuff. don't need it.)

Thematically it is though. A lot of Ghost in The Shell is about Japan's relationship with America and distrust of America. It's partly why this really shouldn't've been done by Americans. 

[Mulder]

6 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Nope the 1995 anime has more detail in the faces than most animes.

 

She has causation bone structure, nose and eyes. You're wrong!

So do a lot of anime characters. It's literally the animation style.

[CoolioD1]

Just now, Mulder said:

Thematically it is though. A lot of Ghost in The Shell is about Japan's relationship with America and distrust of America. It's partly why this really shouldn't've been done by Americans. 

 

stories have been recontextualized for centuries. texts can be changed to fit a different subtext. the argument that it has to be thematically identical is artistically narrowminded.

[IronJimbo]

4 minutes ago, Mulder said:

So do a lot of anime characters. It's literally the animation style.

not really, don't know what anime you've been watching.

 

 

Draw a white women, call her asian. Why?

 

Edited March 19, 2017 by IronJimbo

[Mulder]

1 minute ago, CoolioD1 said:

 

stories have been recontextualized for centuries. texts can be changed to fit a different subtext. the argument that it has to be thematically identical is artistically narrowminded.

As much as I hate this word, there comes a point where it's culturally insensitive. Ghost in The Shell isn't old at all. It's from the 80s. But that's just my point of view.

[CoolioD1]

Just now, Mulder said:

As much as I hate this word, there comes a point where it's culturally insensitive. Ghost in The Shell isn't old at all. It's from the 80s. But that's just my point of view.

it's more insensitive to not change it apparently. going by the reactions to this compared to saaaaay infernal affairs/the departed. there's a movie that pretty much kept the wikipedia play-by-play of the plot almost exactly but changed the setting and with it the thematic subtext. don't remember anyone calling that problematique.

[Mulder]

Just now, CoolioD1 said:

it's more insensitive to not change it apparently. going by the reactions to this compared to saaaaay infernal affairs/the departed. there's a movie that pretty much kept the wikipedia play-by-play of the plot almost exactly but changed the setting and with it the thematic subtext. don't remember anyone calling that problematique.

I'm not familiar with the original film so correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know American and Japanese relations aren't the core of that film. I might be entirely wrong though. It'd be more like doing an American Godzilla and making it pro-nukes.

[Ozymandias]

I don't know anything about Ghost in the Shell.  All I know is that the movie looks like a dull and corny star vehicle and that the race of the lead actress hardly would've changed that.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Ozymandias

[CoolioD1]

8 minutes ago, Mulder said:

I'm not familiar with the original film so correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know American and Japanese relations aren't the core of that film. I might be entirely wrong though. It'd be more like doing an American Godzilla and making it pro-nukes.

IT'S NOT BUT THAT'S NOT MY POINT A NEW SUBTEXT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE IN THE SAME VEIN AND THE IDEA THAT CHANGING IT MAKES IT AUTOMATICALLY ANTITHETICAL IS TOTAL NONSENSE THAT GODZILLA ANALOGY IS ACTUALLY THE DUMBEST BULLSHIT I'VE EVER HEARD YOU CAN FIND AN ANGLE THAT DIDN'T PREVIOUSLY EXIST IN THE STORY LIKE THE HOMOEROTIC OR RELIGIOUS STUFF IN THE DEPARTED FUCK I'VE FUCKING SEEN GHOST IN THE SHELL IT DOESN'T LIVE OR DIE BY ITS SETTING BECAUSE EXACTLY AS YOU STATED THAT AMERICAN AND JAPANESE RELATIONSHIP EXISTS ENTIRELY IN SUBTEXT YOU CAN CHANGE IT AND MAKE IT ABOUT DIFFERENT SHIT THE CORE OF THHAAAAAAT FILM DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE CORE OF A FILM WITH A SIMILAR NARRATIVE WAS MY POINT YOU DENSE MOTHERFUCKER YOUR VIEW OF ART IS INFURIATINGLY SIMPLISTIC

 

agree to disagree  

Edited March 19, 2017 by CoolioD1

[RedX]

1 hour ago, IronJimbo said:

 

without a shell the ghost doesn't exist

 

also Scarjo's acting is bad so that's not a particular good route to take either

Have you watched the original film and its sequel? That's actually not true 

[RedX]

1 hour ago, Mulder said:

For anyone saying "IT DOESN'T MATTER IF MAKOTO ((Oh my bad, MIRA)) IS JAPANESE OR NOT" first of all why would someone who's meant to be in a JAPANESE police force be white? And besides that it's removing representation from a group that sorely needs it in Western film. Though ontop of that, it's less just about the whitewashing and more a symbol of the film in general which just doesn't care that much about the source material beyond just copying from it in some places and drastically stupidly changing it in others. 

The anime film takes place in a fictitious setting modeled after Hong Kong. It's also suggested that a multiculral populace inhabits the region. The matters of each operative's origins are not thoroughly explored or discussed within the series. Batou is obviously a French name and the character looks conspicuously European, but that kind of thing is not a point of focus.  It sure does make me skeptical of any argument that proposes he's certainly of Japanese descent because of the aforementioned and how it's moot when the property's central ideas are that of transhumanism. 

 

The anime also distinguishes between  Japanese characters without enhancements and those who have cybernetic bodies, so this point can also be disregarded.

 

I'm positive Shirow intended to draw characters to appear ethnically neutral as a matter of emphasizing themes. 

 

Anyway, the new film has a really diverse cast. Takeshi Beat, Rila Fukushima, and Kaori Momoi just to name a few Japanese actors, might be missing more. The Section 9 cast is arguably among the most diverse ensembles Hollywood has produced in years so there is representation 

Edited March 19, 2017 by RedX

[Mulder]

3 minutes ago, RedX said:

The anime film takes place in a fictitious setting modeled after Hong Kong. It's also suggested that a multiculral populace inhabits the region. The matters of each operative's origins are not thoroughly explored or discussed within the series. Batou is obviously a French name and the character looks conspicuously European, but that kind of thing is not a point of focus.  It sure does make me skeptical of any argument that proposes he's certainly of Japanese descent because of the aforementioned and how it's moot when the property's central ideas are that of transhumanism. 

 

The anime also distinguishes between  Japanese characters without enhancements and those who have cybernetic bodies, so this point can also be disregarded.

 

I'm positive Shirow intention drew characters to appear ethnically neutral to emphasize themes. 

While the city in the 90s film ((And the 90s film only)) was modeled after Hong Kong, it was meant to be the fictional Japanese city that the manga used.

[grey ghost]

4 hours ago, Mulder said:

For anyone saying "IT DOESN'T MATTER IF MAKOTO ((Oh my bad, MIRA)) IS JAPANESE OR NOT" first of all why would someone who's meant to be in a JAPANESE police force be white? And besides that it's removing representation from a group that sorely needs it in Western film. Though ontop of that, it's less just about the whitewashing and more a symbol of the film in general which just doesn't care that much about the source material beyond just copying from it in some places and drastically stupidly changing it in others. 

 

 

Ghost in the Shell's Japan is post-racial.

 

A white person or cyborg that looks white wouldn't really draw much attention.

[Mulder]

5 minutes ago, grey ghost said:

 

Ghost in the Shell's Japan is post-racial.

 

A white person or cyborg that looks white wouldn't really draw much attention.

Haven't read the manga and the movie is unclear, but in Stand Alone Complex it's not. Season 2's plot is all about a east asian refugee crisis.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Mulder

[grey ghost]

3 hours ago, RedX said:

The anime film takes place in a fictitious setting modeled after Hong Kong. It's also suggested that a multiculral populace inhabits the region. The matters of each operative's origins are not thoroughly explored or discussed within the series. Batou is obviously a French name and the character looks conspicuously European, but that kind of thing is not a point of focus.  It sure does make me skeptical of any argument that proposes he's certainly of Japanese descent because of the aforementioned and how it's moot when the property's central ideas are that of transhumanism. 

 

The anime also distinguishes between  Japanese characters without enhancements and those who have cybernetic bodies, so this point can also be disregarded.

 

I'm positive Shirow intended to draw characters to appear ethnically neutral as a matter of emphasizing themes. 

 

Anyway, the new film has a really diverse cast. Takeshi Beat, Rila Fukushima, and Kaori Momoi just to name a few Japanese actors, might be missing more. The Section 9 cast is arguably among the most diverse ensembles Hollywood has produced in years so there is representation 

 

 

 

I'd like to add that Shirow obviously feels transhumanism would alter the course of Japanese culture and politics making the culture less homogenous and the politics less isolationist.

[Fullbuster]

I forgot it was released this month, I hope it's great!

 

Apart from that a post-racial Japan is clearly not expected in the near future with a population that is 98% Japanese natives.

[grey ghost]

4 minutes ago, Mulder said:

Haven't read the manga and the movie is unclear, but in Stand Alone Complex it's not. Season 2's plot is all about a east asian refugee crisis.

 

But isn't that more of an economic or class issue.

 

The refugees were allowed in for cheap labor but after the wars the job market changed bringing social unrest.