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Avengers Endgame | Conclusion to The Infinity Saga | April 26, 2019 | Review Reactions on page 540 | Endgame Spoilers Allowed

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We’ve known this would be a time travel movie for like 2 years, and I was so, so, nervous about that because like 90% of time travel plots fuck everything up and can’t maintain basic logical coherence. The fact that the Russos avoided any actual paradoxes was such a relief that I give some of the other elements a bit more leeway than I otherwise might (like how stupid it is not to wait for Carol, to do all all the missions simultaneously, not to spend enough time planning the heist and sharing knowledge with each other, not to figure out earlier that they could get more Pym particles from the past, etc).

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3 minutes ago, Charlie Jatinder said:

Iirc tony build the device to act as kinda time travel gps not time traveler itself.

It's obviously both and requires Pym particle to work - otherwise none of them would be able to get back to the platform

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let's say it was Rocket and Rhodey that went to 2014 while Nebula went with Thor.

 

The film would have end without any Thanos involvement 😛

 

still hard to believe that Nebula had glitch and we didn't got any explanation regarding why Nebula was stuck in 2014 when Rhodey port back.

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13 minutes ago, Charlie Jatinder said:

let's say it was Rocket and Rhodey that went to 2014 while Nebula went with Thor.

 

The film would have end without any Thanos involvement 😛

 

still hard to believe that Nebula had glitch and we didn't got any explanation regarding why Nebula was stuck in 2014 when Rhodey port back.

Nebula wasn't able to activate her GPS before Thanos found and captured her.  They weren't attached.  Same way Scott & Bruce could go back to 2023 from NYC while Tony & Steve went on to 1970.

 

I think they handled the time travel conceit rather cleanly but most importantly the Time Heist sequences were highly entertaining with great character moments - comedic and dramatic.

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16 minutes ago, Charlie Jatinder said:

And page 657. 200 to go.

When we merge we will blow past that.

 

 @DeeCee  can we have a merge - especially since for the last few months most of the posting has been done in the Spoiler topic?

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Thanos Legion said:

Curious what you’re referring too, there’s no paradox (thankfully, or I’d have to rate the movie like 6/10 instead of 9.5/10).

It's not a paradox when it comes to age matching or anything like that, but rather a paradox regarding how did old Cap end up in that exact timeline. The idea that current Cap goes back to the 40's and is old in modern times makes sense, but not when you put it in the same timeline as the one that he came from.

 

Supposedly, going back to the past is the same thing as staying in the present, because it only creates alternate timelines instead of messing with the current status quo. Therefore, Cap should have NEVER been able to return to the exact same timeline that he came from. In the timeline where he goes back to dance with Peggy, the MCU would have gone down in a drastically different way. Sure, he would have still remembered Bucky and Falcon, obviously, but by no means would the timelines converge. In his timeline, he could have prevented 9/11 from happening, in example.

Edited by MCKillswitch123

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30 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

It's not a paradox when it comes to age matching or anything like that, but rather a paradox regarding how did old Cap end up in that exact timeline. The idea that current Cap goes back to the 40's and is old in modern times makes sense, but not when you put it in the same timeline as the one that he came from.

 

Supposedly, going back to the past is the same thing as staying in the present, because it only creates alternate timelines instead of messing with the current status quo. Therefore, Cap should have NEVER been able to return to the exact same timeline that he came from. In the timeline where he goes back to dance with Peggy, the MCU would have gone down in a drastically different way. Sure, he would have still remembered Bucky and Falcon, obviously, but by no means would the timelines converge. In his timeline, he could have prevented 9/11 from happening, in example.

will be explained in a movie 5-10 years from now 🙂

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45 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

It's not a paradox when it comes to age matching or anything like that, but rather a paradox regarding how did old Cap end up in that exact timeline. The idea that current Cap goes back to the 40's and is old in modern times makes sense, but not when you put it in the same timeline as the one that he came from.

 

Supposedly, going back to the past is the same thing as staying in the present, because it only creates alternate timelines instead of messing with the current status quo. Therefore, Cap should have NEVER been able to return to the exact same timeline that he came from. In the timeline where he goes back to dance with Peggy, the MCU would have gone down in a drastically different way. Sure, he would have still remembered Bucky and Falcon, obviously, but by no means would the timelines converge. In his timeline, he could have prevented 9/11 from happening, in example.

He teleported back, just not to that exact moment.

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One of my favorite moments from the movie is them bring back the young kid from iron man 3. That was a nice touch. 

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2 hours ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

It's not a paradox when it comes to age matching or anything like that, but rather a paradox regarding how did old Cap end up in that exact timeline. The idea that current Cap goes back to the 40's and is old in modern times makes sense, but not when you put it in the same timeline as the one that he came from.

 

Supposedly, going back to the past is the same thing as staying in the present, because it only creates alternate timelines instead of messing with the current status quo. Therefore, Cap should have NEVER been able to return to the exact same timeline that he came from. In the timeline where he goes back to dance with Peggy, the MCU would have gone down in a drastically different way. Sure, he would have still remembered Bucky and Falcon, obviously, but by no means would the timelines converge. In his timeline, he could have prevented 9/11 from happening, in example.

He travels from the timeline where he grew old with Peggy (which likely diverged wildly) back to the main timeline to hand the shield off to Sam.

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3 hours ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

It's not a paradox when it comes to age matching or anything like that, but rather a paradox regarding how did old Cap end up in that exact timeline. The idea that current Cap goes back to the 40's and is old in modern times makes sense, but not when you put it in the same timeline as the one that he came from.

 

Supposedly, going back to the past is the same thing as staying in the present, because it only creates alternate timelines instead of messing with the current status quo. Therefore, Cap should have NEVER been able to return to the exact same timeline that he came from. In the timeline where he goes back to dance with Peggy, the MCU would have gone down in a drastically different way. Sure, he would have still remembered Bucky and Falcon, obviously, but by no means would the timelines converge. In his timeline, he could have prevented 9/11 from happening, in example.

I think he came back in same timeline after enjoying the dance 😉.... 

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2 hours ago, Thanos Legion said:

He travels from the timeline where he grew old with Peggy (which likely diverged wildly) back to the main timeline to hand the shield off to Sam.

32 minutes ago, Nero said:

I think he came back in same timeline after enjoying the dance 😉.... 

That makes sense, but why didn't he land in the platform that he was supposed to? Wasn't the time GPS portal thing supposed to serve as a landing platform to hit exactly the right spot when travelling between timelines?

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28 minutes ago, MCKillswitch123 said:

That makes sense, but why didn't he land in the platform that he was supposed to? Wasn't the time GPS portal thing supposed to serve as a landing platform to hit exactly the right spot when travelling between timelines?

 

My assumption is that he is only temporarily on the main timeline, and will get back to the Peggy timeline where the respective Doc Green is waiting for him with their respective landing platform.

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On 8/15/2019 at 2:45 AM, Charlie Jatinder said:

I am still not able to digest time travel tbh. Whatever they did in MCU, that all was believable to some extent.

 

Time travel is simply bullshit. Just shoving some quantum blah blah. Handing your biggest film with time travel bull shit. Ugh.

 

Ten years from now, I can see hating Endgame for that, just like I think The Avengers is average stuff now. Infinity War on other hand will stand test of time.

 

Also Also, I didn't complained about it till now. In Infinity War, the children of Thanos, were big PITA of The Avengers. In Endgame you just killed them in seconds. Fuck off.

ffs Okoye lift Glaive on fucking spear. Give me a break.

 

Maw took on Tony, Strange, Wong and Spidey in Infinity War. In Endgame, he did what? 

 

 

Everyone's got their level of "suspending disbelief" that they'll accept, but is Endgame's time-travel conceit any wackier than Infinity War's "six stones can be used to LITERALLY DO WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!... oh, but you have to physically snap your fingers to activate them!" logic??? I bought Endgame's time traveling because, at least until the Cap goofiness at the end, it was pretty consistent with how it was handled. It was no more ludicrous to me than the concept of a hammer that controls the weather (but only "good" beings can operate it!), a talking, genetically modified raccoon, mystical sling-rings that can teleport you from one side of the planet (universe, even!) to another... As long as rules are established and followed, I'm usually down for it.

 

I grew up loving Marvel Comics and Endgame was the most Marvel-Comics-y film of them all.

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6 hours ago, FilmBuff said:

One of my favorite moments from the movie is them bring back the young kid from iron man 3. That was a nice touch. 

That is exactly the kind of small touch that makes the MCU so good. A lot of the time it's the small things that make a movie memorable...and Feige is very good at those.

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5 minutes ago, John Harris said:

Everyone's got their level of "suspending disbelief" that they'll accept, but is Endgame's time-travel conceit any wackier than Infinity War's "six stones can be used to LITERALLY DO WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!... oh, but you have to physically snap your fingers to activate them!" logic??? I bought Endgame's time traveling because, at least until the Cap goofiness at the end, it was pretty consistent with how it was handled. It was no more ludicrous to me than the concept of a hammer that controls the weather (but only "good" beings can operate it!), a talking, genetically modified raccoon, mystical sling-rings that can teleport you from one side of the planet (universe, even!) to another... As long as rules are established and followed, I'm usually down for it.

 

I grew up loving Marvel Comics and Endgame was the most Marvel-Comics-y film of them all.

Yeah, everybody has their level of disbelief.

Time Travel is no more improbable in modern Physics  then FTL/Intersteller travel is (in fact some theorize that any kind of FTL Travel would distort time; a number of Science Fiction stories have been written on this theme) but I guess some people just find it too hard to swallow.

But they accept the crazy ass Magic that Dr Strange performs. To each his own, I guess.

Avengers aside, I really don't get why people would automatically reject what is a major genre of science fiction. And there has been a hell of a lot of modern science fiction involving Time travel including H.G. Wells, the Time Machine, which many consider the first modern Science FIction novel.

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I love a clever time travel story that manages to avoid paradoxes, they’re just unfortunately rare compared to “let’s use this as a gimmick to do a bunch of shit that doesn’t make sense and the GA won’t care.”

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All this mention of time travel and I completely forgot that Deadpool 2 also had time travel, and that its version of it had a number of holes. It’s also funny to note that Zack Snyder also was going to implement time travel in his movies, and that he even had his own set of rules for how it would work. That’s not even getting into the fact that WB at one point was dangling the idea of doing a movie based in Flashpoint. I guess time travel and comic book characters really do go hand in hand. 

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18 hours ago, Charlie Jatinder said:

let's say it was Rocket and Rhodey that went to 2014 while Nebula went with Thor.

 

The film would have end without any Thanos involvement 😛

 

still hard to believe that Nebula had glitch and we didn't got any explanation regarding why Nebula was stuck in 2014 when Rhodey port back.

They would have left empty handed b/c I doubt there's any love to sacrifice there. 

 

Which means getting the stone the only other time and places they knew of.  On Titan when Thanos was fighting Tony & Co or before Thor didn't swing for the head or when he had a full glove of Stones before he snapped them into disintegrating.  All instances would have meant interacting with Thanos and if successful getting the stone would have created a split timeline where we still wound up with two of him.  But maybe they could have killed him quick again.   :lol:  Or maybe they died trying to get the stone and failed (Strange Future looks #7,934,831, # 2,845,234, and #57)

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