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Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

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1 hour ago, Chucky said:

Any other opinion is factually wrong because a guy named dead shot on a movie forum says so lol. I never said it 'would have made this or that' today, I'm saying what its the equivalent to. Avatar tripling China's all time biggest movie in 2009 is the equivalent of 2b. F&f franchise increasing by 10times the amount support this. The 10x as many screen China has today has boosted box office by around the same figure, so avatars 200m in China back then is as impressive as 2b there today. To put in perspective, Endgame has made 615m there and isn't even this years biggest film there.

Avatar tripling China's biggest movie at the time doesn't mean it would have tripled the record in 2019. That's ridiculous to even assume. It's also easier to triple a record when the market is still developing since the standards aren't that high to being with.  The screens have increased but a lot of the of the Chinese audiences only watch domestic movies - specially in the rural areas.  

 

There are tons of factors to consider when talking about Avatars gross. At the end of the day it's up to personal bias. I can sit here and say that a movie like Avatar would have never grossed as much today due to a variety of reasons and you'll disagree. We can argue over inflation, exchange rates and market growth all day - it wont change a thing. 

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1 hour ago, Chucky said:

Well I'm sure there are scientific studies out there proving humans can remember further back than 10 year and I'm also sure there is evidence that the earths 7 billion inhabitants do not all suffer from alzheimers. I would find a link but it's just too dumb of an argument to put that much effort into

That doesn't mean they remember any relevant plot points or even something as simple as character names.  It's comparable to remembering that you had dinner but not knowing the specific meal.  The movie is forgotten in that sense. That's why the idea of a sequel is being mocked. 

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32 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

Avatar tripling China's biggest movie at the time doesn't mean it would have tripled the record in 2019. That's ridiculous to even assume. It's also easier to triple a record when the market is still developing since the standards aren't that high to being with.  The screens have increased but a lot of the of the Chinese audiences only watch domestic movies - specially in the rural areas.  

 

There are tons of factors to consider when talking about Avatars gross. At the end of the day it's up to personal bias. I can sit here and say that a movie like Avatar would have never grossed as much today due to a variety of reasons and you'll disagree. We can argue over inflation, exchange rates and market growth all day - it wont change a thing. 

Again though I've not stated that it would triple it today, I'm just saying what it's the equivalent to. China was the country if I remember correctly that had reported suicides over the movie. Imagine living in a country where western movies are rarer to come by then you are given a spectacle like avatar, naturally audiences will flock to it. You mention how Chinese prefer homemade movies but Avatar was causing people to boycott these China made movies when they pulled Avatar from cinemas, it had a huge impact there and James Cameron's influence there helped to get the government to relax their rules on foreign movies, which is why we have more Hollywood movies being released in China than there were back in 2009

 

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33 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

That doesn't mean they remember any relevant plot points or even something as simple as character names.  It's comparable to remembering that you had dinner but not knowing the specific meal.  The movie is forgotten in that sense. That's why the idea of a sequel is being mocked. 

I cant remember any character names from District 9 (another 2009 movies) but it's still one of my favourite sci fi movies. I dont see how anyone can mock the idea of a sequel to a 2.8b grosser, to insinuate a sequel is a bad idea is rather stupid if you ask me. I find avatar has its fair share of haters from movie buffs due to its corny lines and familiar story but these same people were saying the same thing 10 years ago and it didnt prevent Avatar from being the success it was. I feel Avatar is something casual audiences eat up alot more than the serious movie nerds do which make up about 1% of movie goers and lets face it, those same people still end up paying for a ticket.

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43 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

There are tons of factors to consider when talking about Avatars gross. At the end of the day it's up to personal bias. I can sit here and say that a movie like Avatar would have never grossed as much today due to a variety of reasons and you'll disagree. We can argue over inflation, exchange rates and market growth all day - it wont change a thing. 

It's really easy. We've gone through this multiple times. Blockbusters today on average gross a lot more than they did 10 years ago. So a movie doing 2.8b today is not as big an accomplishment than doing that same amount 10 years ago. That's statistics and has really nothing to do with bias.

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42 minutes ago, Chucky said:

Again though I've not stated that it would triple it today, I'm just saying what it's the equivalent to. China was the country if I remember correctly that had reported suicides over the movie. Imagine living in a country where western movies are rarer to come by then you are given a spectacle like avatar, naturally audiences will flock to it. You mention how Chinese prefer homemade movies but Avatar was causing people to boycott these China made movies when they pulled Avatar from cinemas, it had a huge impact there and James Cameron's influence there helped to get the government to relax their rules on foreign movies, which is why we have more Hollywood movies being released in China than there were back in 2009

 

Yes, we know that Avatar smashed in China. But the original point still remains. 3D is the reason why the movie was a huge success. It was the selling point. There is no denying this fact.

38 minutes ago, Chucky said:

I cant remember any character names from District 9 (another 2009 movies) but it's still one of my favourite sci fi movies. I dont see how anyone can mock the idea of a sequel to a 2.8b grosser, to insinuate a sequel is a bad idea is rather stupid if you ask me. I find avatar has its fair share of haters from movie buffs due to its corny lines and familiar story but these same people were saying the same thing 10 years ago and it didnt prevent Avatar from being the success it was. I feel Avatar is something casual audiences eat up alot more than the serious movie nerds do which make up about 1% of movie goers and lets face it, those same people still end up paying for a ticket.

And almost no one refers to Avatar as their favourite movies - this applies to the casual audience as well. That's where problem lies. The script is simply weak. It's never brought up in any conversation unless discussing box office. People are mocking the thought of a sequel because it feels stupid since the first movie wasn't even good to being with. No one is asking for it to be made. A similar situation happened with Alice in wonderland. The first one grossed 1 billion - cause of 3D visuals - yet the sequel bombed. My guess is that A2 does 1,3 billion max, which would be a disastrous decline. But time will be the ultimate truth teller. 

31 minutes ago, Elessar said:

It's really easy. We've gone through this multiple times. Blockbusters today on average gross a lot more than they did 10 years ago. So a movie doing 2.8b today is not as big an accomplishment than doing that same amount 10 years ago. That's statistics and has really nothing to do with bias.

Except Avatar did 2,8 billion with 3D tickets and an economic collapse - biggest since the great depression - which gave it extremely favourable exchange rates. The current champion End Game would have grossed close to 3 billion with last years exchange rates.  Also I'd argue that with rise of streaming getting people to go the cinema is an even bigger challenge today. Thankfully Disney is around with the MCU and nostalgic live action movies to save the industry. Good luck to Avatar 2. 

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2 minutes ago, VenomXXR said:

Hmm, a brand new member with all their posts/comments related to Avatar in some way....

 

Totally normal and not at all suspicious.

yeah he's clearly an alt. His first post was defending Avatar in the end game OS thread lmao. My money is on @NCsoft

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7 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

Yes, we know that Avatar smashed in China. But the original point still remains. 3D is the reason why the movie was a huge success. It was the selling point. There is no denying this fact.

Have you got any evidence to support this "fact" that the only reason people enjoyed Avatar was 3D? 

It is so easy to make up this crap 10 years after the fact.

 

Yes, 3D was obviously a selling point, no one denies that. But the reason it did almost 3 BILLION dollars was because people loved it. If the film was crap like you are claiming but had good 3D, why the hell would so many people spread the positive word about it and go back and see it again?

It is the world that James Cameron created, the escapism, the emotional resonance of protecting nature, and the romance story that grounds it, that people loved. the 3D effect was only a small part of that.

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27 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

Yes, we know that Avatar smashed in China. But the original point still remains. 3D is the reason why the movie was a huge success. It was the selling point. There is no denying this fact.

And almost no one refers to Avatar as their favourite movies - this applies to the casual audience as well. That's where problem lies. The script is simply weak. It's never brought up in any conversation unless discussing box office. People are mocking the thought of a sequel because it feels stupid since the first movie wasn't even good to being with. No one is asking for it to be made. A similar situation happened with Alice in wonderland. The first one grossed 1 billion - cause of 3D visuals - yet the sequel bombed. My guess is that A2 does 1,3 billion max, which would be a disastrous decline. But time will be the ultimate truth teller. 

Except Avatar did 2,8 billion with 3D tickets and an economic collapse - biggest since the great depression - which gave it extremely favourable exchange rates. The current champion End Game would have grossed close to 3 billion with last years exchange rates.  Also I'd argue that with rise of streaming getting people to go the cinema is an even bigger challenge today. Thankfully Disney is around with the MCU and nostalgic live action movies to save the industry. Good luck to Avatar 2. 

1.3b? That made me laugh. I'd love to see your breakdown of this. It has a higher chance of making that in China than missing it altogether.

 

You do realise only 4 movies had grossed 1b when Avatar was released right? This year alone 4 movies have already hit that mark with more to come in the next few days so spare me with the 'cinema is a bigger challenge today' bullshit. Since avatar 36 movies have done what only 4 managed to do prior to it, fact. Marketing films is easier than ever before since people are walking around with handsets capable of advertising anything to them.

 

And if I remember correctly Alice in Wonderland was just one of the luckiest movies we've seen being released right after avatar it was only naturally audiences wanted to replicate that feeling but unfortunately it didnt have the legs because it wasn't as well recieved. If anything its performance just showed the impact Avatar had on general audiences. You want to argue 3d was the main pull for its success, I'd argue Pandora itself was the bigger reason. The imagination in that world is really what sold it to audiences, 3d just gave them a great platform to experience it in

 

I also dont hear anyone say Titanic is their favourite film so what's your point? To become a massive film you dont have to be everyones favourite film, you just need enough people to like it enough to keep recommending it, something Avatar accomplished whether you want to agree or not.

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8 minutes ago, Chucky said:

Well good luck on that one

literally every single one of your posts is about Avatar in other threads and this one. Not sure which user you are but in my experience it's best to just have patience and wait for your ban to end. Otherwise your ban will just be extended if the mods discover this account.

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4 minutes ago, Avatree said:

literally every single one of your posts is about Avatar in other threads and this one. Not sure which user you are but in my experience it's best to just have patience and wait for your ban to end. Otherwise your ban will just be extended if the mods discover this account.

I dont have other accounts, I just track box office mojo, googled avengers vs endgame tickets and this site came up, read through then registered. A movie just became the biggest grossing movie of all time after 10 years and people are surprised that a new member has joined who only wants to discuss that record, I cant be the only one

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28 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

Except Avatar did 2,8 billion with 3D tickets and an economic collapse - biggest since the great depression - which gave it extremely favourable exchange rates. The current champion End Game would have grossed close to 3 billion with last years exchange rates.  Also I'd argue that with rise of streaming getting people to go the cinema is an even bigger challenge today. 

You don't get it, do you? Again, blockbusters today gross a lot more than they did 10 years ago, despite economical and social changes.

 

30 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

Thankfully Disney is around with the MCU and nostalgic live action movies to save the industry. 

Because of statements like this you can't really be taken seriously.

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3 minutes ago, Chucky said:

I dont have other accounts, I just track box office mojo, googled avengers vs endgame tickets and this site came up, read through then registered. A movie just became the biggest grossing movie of all time after 10 years and people are surprised that a new member has joined who only wants to discuss that record, I cant be the only one

Okay, well if you are new, then as I said, welcome :)

 

The forum has just had several Avatar fans been banned and they've been making alts to circumvent the ban. So you can understand the hesitation to believe you. 

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2 minutes ago, Avatree said:

Okay, well if you are new, then as I said, welcome :)

 

The forum has just had several Avatar fans been banned and they've been making alts to circumvent the ban. So you can understand the hesitation to believe you. 

Thank you, well I have nothing to hide but thank you for the concern 

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3 hours ago, HeadShot said:

yeah he's clearly an alt. His first post was defending Avatar in the end game OS thread lmao. My money is on @NCsoft

Eh... You do know that I'm not banned from this place, I just wanted to take some time away from the tiring debates and "coming back" with a Alt-account makes zero logical sense...... right? 

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3 hours ago, Chucky said:

1.3b? That made me laugh. I'd love to see your breakdown of this. It has a higher chance of making that in China than missing it altogether.

 

You do realise only 4 movies had grossed 1b when Avatar was released right? This year alone 4 movies have already hit that mark with more to come in the next few days so spare me with the 'cinema is a bigger challenge today' bullshit. Since avatar 36 movies have done what only 4 managed to do prior to it, fact. Marketing films is easier than ever before since people are walking around with handsets capable of advertising anything to them.

 

And if I remember correctly Alice in Wonderland was just one of the luckiest movies we've seen being released right after avatar it was only naturally audiences wanted to replicate that feeling but unfortunately it didnt have the legs because it wasn't as well recieved. If anything its performance just showed the impact Avatar had on general audiences. You want to argue 3d was the main pull for its success, I'd argue Pandora itself was the bigger reason. The imagination in that world is really what sold it to audiences, 3d just gave them a great platform to experience it in

 

I also dont hear anyone say Titanic is their favourite film so what's your point? To become a massive film you dont have to be everyones favourite film, you just need enough people to like it enough to keep recommending it, something Avatar accomplished whether you want to agree or not.

Well said Chucky

 

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21 hours ago, Avatree said:

Have you got any evidence to support this "fact" that the only reason people enjoyed Avatar was 3D? 

It is so easy to make up this crap 10 years after the fact.

 

Yes, 3D was obviously a selling point, no one denies that. But the reason it did almost 3 BILLION dollars was because people loved it. If the film was crap like you are claiming but had good 3D, why the hell would so many people spread the positive word about it and go back and see it again?

It is the world that James Cameron created, the escapism, the emotional resonance of protecting nature, and the romance story that grounds it, that people loved. the 3D effect was only a small part of that.

It wasn't a selling point. It was THE selling point. With exchange rates adjusted it's not even close to 3 billion. The movie is comparable to a theme park ride - it was a cool experience but nothing more than that. No one actually cares about the characters - hence why it's forgotten and couldn't stand the test of time. It's one of the few highest grossing movies of all time thats been completely erased from history. 

21 hours ago, Chucky said:

1.3b? That made me laugh. I'd love to see your breakdown of this. It has a higher chance of making that in China than missing it altogether.

 

You do realise only 4 movies had grossed 1b when Avatar was released right? This year alone 4 movies have already hit that mark with more to come in the next few days so spare me with the 'cinema is a bigger challenge today' bullshit. Since avatar 36 movies have done what only 4 managed to do prior to it, fact. Marketing films is easier than ever before since people are walking around with handsets capable of advertising anything to them.

 

And if I remember correctly Alice in Wonderland was just one of the luckiest movies we've seen being released right after avatar it was only naturally audiences wanted to replicate that feeling but unfortunately it didnt have the legs because it wasn't as well recieved. If anything its performance just showed the impact Avatar had on general audiences. You want to argue 3d was the main pull for its success, I'd argue Pandora itself was the bigger reason. The imagination in that world is really what sold it to audiences, 3d just gave them a great platform to experience it in

 

I also dont hear anyone say Titanic is their favourite film so what's your point? To become a massive film you dont have to be everyones favourite film, you just need enough people to like it enough to keep recommending it, something Avatar accomplished whether you want to agree or not.

I said 1.3 billion max. It's actually going to do even less than that. 

500 OS

250 DOM

400 China 

 

Avatar made it's money because of the 3D gimmick and the exchange rates. It would have never reached such a high number without it.  It's gross is far to inflated and doesn't represent the popularity of the movie. Hence why it has the least admissions amongst the top tier highest grossing movies. Reaching 1 billion is still a struggle for almost every studio. This year only DISNEY or DISNEY related movies have reached that milestone. Disney being an exception to the rule doesn't change that fact. The general audience prefers to stay at home streaming - getting people to come to the cinema is harder than ever before. It's clear as day when only Disney is managing to do that these days. 

 

Alice In Wonderland was a success because of the 3D - which Avatar was responsible for, yes. Avatar did indeed usher in the new era of 3D. But just like the movie itself it ended up being a forgotten fad.  Avatar 2 will have a similar faith to Alice 2. The movie isn't loved - most people recognise that the script is utter garbage. Also in a post MCU world, which includes GALAXIES and all kinds of magical wonders, Pandora fades into the background. It simply won't be able to compete in the current golden era of cinema.

 

You must live in a cave because Titanic is constantly hailed as one of the best movies of all time. It's always being recognised by both the general audience and critics. Avatar might have been recommended by people at the time of its release when people were caught up in the hype of 3D, but once the dust settled no one cared. 

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18 hours ago, NCsoft said:

Eh... You do know that I'm not banned from this place, I just wanted to take some time away from the tiring debates and "coming back" with a Alt-account makes zero logical sense...... right? 

I'm aware. The user just happens to type very similar to you.  Figured that you went into hiding after the whole JCS + End Game erasing Avatar from history thing. But I admire you for your nonchalant attitude and lack of embarrassment. 

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