Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[Neo]

So everyone that thinks Cameron was sitting on his hands for the past 2.5 years, what do you think know?

[filmscholar]

If this really comes out Dec 2015 (6 Years later from part 1) then 2015 really will explode. 

[Shawn Robbins]

Unless there's some MAJOR leap forward that is clearly evident to audiences, I still feel that A2's strength needs to be story and not just visual appeal--if it's going to make another run for $600+ million domestic, that is. Either way, it's going to be have a big run.

[fishstick]

So this is actually happening?

 

I agree that story needs to be strong but Cameron has good track record with sequels (Aliens, T2) which actually had stronger characterisation (of the female character) than the original movies. One could definitely see development from one movie to another and that's pretty much esential reason for making a sequel - to see where character goes character-wise, not just location-wise.  

[The Futurist]

Unless there's some MAJOR leap forward that is clearly evident to audiences, I still feel that A2's strength needs to be story and not just visual appeal--if it's going to make another run for $600+ million domestic, that is. Either way, it's going to be have a big run.

 

You don't have Avatar holds just with visual appeal.

Stop rewriting History with the lame ass internet argument that Avatar had a weak story.

Edited July 25, 2013 by The Futurist

[vc2002]

You don't have Avatar holds just with visual appeal.

Stop rewriting History with the lame ass internet argument that Avatar had a weak story.

 

You do know that Shawn is the admin of this forum right?

[Cochofles]

Yeah, the whole «weak story» thing is an argument that everyone just parrots because it was the rallying cry of the people that hated the film from the get-go, including film critics. Yes, it was a derivative story/plot, there's no question, but for a film —no matter how visually arresting— to connect with audiences in such a way, the story has to be compelling and audiences have to care about the characters. Sure, people will say that Avatar (and Titanic) had «weak stories», but I am not buying that. Cameron is a master storyteller, and that's why he takes simple, done-to-death plots, and TELLS THEM (go ahead, say “more like ‘regurgitates them’” if it makes you feel better) in such a way that people can't help but fall in love with those plots all over again. Funny how he makes these 3-hour epics in which every single minutes counts to further the plot, and nothing feels like padding (Um, hello, Mr. Peter Jackson). Say that he can't write and that he is not original, but very few directors working today can tell a story as compellingly as JC. Say that the characters were cardboar until you are blue in the face, but audiences HAD to care about Rose, Jack, Jake and Neityri to pay so much money to see them again and again.

Edited July 25, 2013 by cochofles

[The Futurist]

Yeah, the whole «weak story» thing is an argument that everyone just parrots because it was the rallying cry of the people that hated the film from the get-go, including film critics. Yes, it was a derivative story/plot, there's no question, but for a film —no matter how visually arresting— to connect with audiences in such a way, the story has to be compelling and audiences have to care about the characters. Sure, people will say that Avatar (and Titanic) had «weak stories», but I am not buying that. Cameron is a master storyteller, and that's why he takes simple, done-to-death plots, and TELLS THEM (go ahead, say “more like ‘regurgitates them’” if it makes you feel better) in such a way that people can't help but fall in love with those plots all over again. Funny how he makes these 3-hour epics in which every single minutes counts to further the plot, and nothing feels like padding (Um, hello, Mr. Peter Jackson). Say that he can't write and that he is not original, but very few directors working today can tell a story as compellingly as JC. Say that the characters were cardboar until you are blue in the face, but audiences HAD to care about Rose, Jack, Jake and Neityri to pay so much money to see them again and again.

 

You always deliver the truth when it comes to big Jim.

 

THx for your words.

 

Super heroes movies always tell the exact same story but nobody calls them derivative, which they are.

 

Funny how bias works.

[fishstick]

It's funny how MoS spawned some block-of-text essays on convoluted blockbusters and there's tons of fire and brimstone thrown at bloated movies. yet none of those fuckers will ever admit that Cameron's simple storytelling is the antidote to bloat and convolution. They rtashed Avatar for being simple and they trash other blockbusters for crumbling under their own weight. In the end, simple wins.

[Dementeleus]

^^ Actually, Film Crit HULK has used Cameron (and specifically AVATAR) for that exact example.... but then again, he's a smart and sensible Hulk.

[Cmasterclay]

Holy ball sacks, this might come out????

[fishstick]

Devin, my new idol, must have reomoved that part of FCH's awesome analysis cause he hates Avatar.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Anyway, even though I didn't care for the first, count me in as excited to see this. I can't wait to see all the undersea creatures James Cameron can come up with!

[Cochofles]

^^ Actually, Film Crit HULK has used Cameron (and specifically AVATAR) for that exact example.... but then again, he's a smart and sensible Hulk.

Telemachos, dear, is there a link that I can go to in order to read that analysis HULK did of Avatar? Is it related to economy of storytelling? Please, inquiring minds need to know!!!

[Ozymandias]

Telemachos, dear, is there a link that I can go to in order to read that analysis HULK did of Avatar? Is it related to economy of storytelling? Please, inquiring minds need to know!!!

 

Watch Mr. Plinkett's analysis instead. 

[fishstick]

Telemachos, dear, is there a link that I can go to in order to read that analysis HULK did of Avatar? Is it related to economy of storytelling? Please, inquiring minds need to know!!!

 

Fanboys think that simple means stupid because everyone from 8-88 can follow the plot. However, it's bloated movies that are often far more stupid than those with a simple story, becasue they mistake bloat with complexity. Complex plot isn't the same as bloated and convoluted one. Nor does simple equal stupid.

Edited July 25, 2013 by fishnets

[Cochofles]

Fanboys think that simple means stupid because everyone from 8-88 can follow the plot. However, it's bloated movies that are often far more stupid than those with a simple story, becasue they mistake bloat with complexity. Complex plot isn't the same as bloated and convoluted one. Nor does simple equal stupid.

Absolutely. It's definitely a fine line between complex and convoluted, and way too many directors destroy that line. Every JC film has a very simple, VERY EFFECTIVE story, and, like you have mentioned before, NOTHING is wasted. Not a shot, not an angle, not a scene, not a word. Everything JC puts on screen is at the service of the story, and he truly knows how to advance the plot with all the tools at his disposal.

[fishstick]

Absolutely. It's definitely a fine line between complex and convoluted, and way too many directors destroy that line. Every JC film has a very simple, VERY EFFECTIVE story, and, like you have mentioned before, NOTHING is wasted. Not a shot, not an angle, not a scene, not a word. Everything JC puts on screen is at the service of the story, and he truly knows how to advance the plot with all the tools at his disposal.

 

Yep, I think that also comes form his being an editor as well. Pacing is God.

 

Someone at the Pomp's said that JC creates emotional core and then build a hardware around it and I agree. All his movies have strong human and emotional element and it also helps that he casts actors who have great chemistry. he really is the king of romance and mother-child movies.

[Dementeleus]

Telemachos, dear, is there a link that I can go to in order to read that analysis HULK did of Avatar? Is it related to economy of storytelling? Please, inquiring minds need to know!!!

 

It is indeed related to economy of storytelling, but his AVATAR/Cameron comment is more of an aside... comparing "simple" storytelling that's effective vs. convoluted storytelling that's all the rage but not very good dramatically.

 

http://badassdigest.com/2013/06/12/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-age-of-the-convoluted-blockbuster/

[vc2002]

 

http://badassdigest.com/2013/06/12/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-age-of-the-convoluted-blockbuster/