The Disney Thread | Happy 90th to Donald Duck!

[brothernero]

“This would really hamstring their ability to do that, particularly in K-3"

 

I can't believe the Left is going to run on it being fine to discuss gender or sexuality with little children of this age.  That part of the bill is a no-brainer, but, hey, go ahead and make that a campaign issue.  Please.

 

 

[Porthos]

2 minutes ago, brothernero said:

“This would really hamstring their ability to do that, particularly in K-3"

 

I can't believe the Left is going to run on it being fine to discuss gender or sexuality with little children of this age.  That part of the bill is a no-brainer, but, hey, go ahead and make that a campaign issue.  Please.

 

 

(note the date on that, sadly still, pinned tweet)

 

But, hey, you're the one who thinks it's apparently Bad Wrong Icky to even mention the existence of gays to children.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Porthos

[Porthos]

Actually, you know what @brothernero, gonna stop pussyfooting around.

 

Can teachers mention their husbands and wives in class or refer to people who are married in class if they're straight?

 

That's "discussing sexuality and gender," right?

 

If that's different, please tell me why.

 

This isn't about sex-ed. It was NEVER about sex-ed.

 

It's about denying the existence of and harassing folks who happen to be gay.  You damn well bet I think that should be a campaign issue.  And no amount of deflecting/lying/scaremongering about sex-ed in third grade is gonna change the chilling effect of this bill.

 

===

 

But, hey, you might be right about the electoral aspects of this.  Scaremongering and lying to the public when demonizing The Other has worked many times before and there's little indication that it'll stop working in the future.

 

I'll save my outrage though about all the damage this law is gonna do in its wake.

[excel1]

Speaking for this discussion, and not the FLA gov, Idk if there is anyone who doesn't want teachers, parents etc to live their lives. I don't think anyone wants them to feel repressed. But many of you simply aren't appreciating how many people want 8 year old to be taught 8 year old things. They're going to value the kids over the teachers. 

 

Those 2 ideas are not mutually exclusive.  

[Porthos]

10 minutes ago, excel1 said:

Speaking for this discussion, and not the FLA gov, Idk if there is anyone who doesn't want teachers, parents etc to live their lives. I don't think anyone wants them to feel repressed. But many of you simply aren't appreciating how many people want 8 year old to be taught 8 year old things. They're going to value the kids over the teachers. 

 

Those 2 ideas are not mutually exclusive.  

 

Of course I appreciate it.  That's the Trojan Horse here.  But the thing is, the folks who are spearheading this are very much the same MAGA Types who do want people to have LGTBQ folks to feel repressed.

 

Again, when folks immediately go to the "grooming" card, as the press secretary of DeSantis has repeatedly done, it is almost certain that they are not acting in good faith here.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Porthos

[excel1]

29 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

Of course I appreciate it.  That's the Trojan Horse here.  But the thing is, the folks who are spearheading this are very much the same MAGA Types who do want people to have LGTBQ folks to feel repressed.

 

Again, when folks immediately go to the "grooming" card, as the press secretary of DeSantis has repeatedly done, it is almost certain that they are not acting in good faith here.

 

 

You are making a connection that many aren't/won't make. Many people will dislike both the MAGA bubble and the idea of pushing sexual topics of any kind into k-3. 

[Porthos]

19 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

 

You are making a connection that many aren't/won't make. Many people will dislike both the MAGA bubble and the idea of pushing sexual topics of any kind into k-3. 

 

I know this.  The people who are lying about this law are counting on this.  The whole frame of "pushing sexual topics" on kids is the lie here.  There is no "pushing sexual topics on kids in k-3" going on in Florida:

 

Quote

Opponents warned it is a solution in search of a problem because the primary provisions of the bill — banning teacher-led discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity in kindergarten through third grade — is a subject currently not taught in public schools. They say the law is intentionally vague, intended to suppress talk of gender inclusiveness in schools, intimidate teachers into avoiding the topic and and target LGBTQ students.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article259861220.html#storylink=cpy

and again

Quote

“We know that teachers are not teaching sex ed in K through three grades but a lot of teachers are attempting to discuss inclusive families, particularly when they have kids in their classroom who have same-sex parents or have transgender parents,’’ said Ryan Thorsen, a researcher at Human Rights Watch who has studied Florida’s legislation. “This would really hamstring their ability to do that, particularly in K-3, and potentially silence discussions in other grades, depending on how teachers interpret the bill.”

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article259861220.html#storylink=cpy

 

There are other provisions here about counseling and mandatory reporting to parents of said counseling, but that looks to have been watered down from the worst of what it could have been, so I won't focus on that.

 

The simple point here is: The law is unnecessary for what it claims to address and is written in such a way that it is almost certain to do real harm to real people.  Not to mention children who are starting to explore their own feelings about their own sexuality as they age (and, no, I am not talking k-3 here).

 

===

 

Now will it "work" electorally speaking?  Considering the amount of energy it takes to refute bullshit versus peddling it and how much people's brains can shut off when children are involved, I wouldn't be surprised if it is a short term "success" in Florida.  Hell, gay marriage bans succeeded at the ballot box in California of all places.  TWICE.  So I don't doubt that in the short term this would be a "winning" strategy in Florida.  Such is the power of demagoguery.

 

Doesn't mean I and we shouldn't refute it and show it for what it is. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Porthos

[filmlover]

3 hours ago, dudalb said:

INHO De Santis is directing appealing to Florida;s large Fundy Christian community.

People don't get the outside the major cities, Florida is pretty much pure Redneck country.

As someone who has lived here my whole life (albeit mainly in the nicer areas), I can confirm from experience that this state is a high redneck/white trash population.

 

For those not fully submerged in this state's politicians, the man responsible for the bill, Republican State Legislator Dennis Baxley, is a known homophobe with a strong anti-LGBTQ history. He also may have some deeply-rooted issues he needs to work on himself. I mean:

 

 

After hours of denying his bill singled out gays, Senator @dennisbaxley admitted the so-called “Don’t Say Gay” bill was drafted because he was personally concerned so many kids today identify as gay and see themselves as “celebrities.” @CBSMiami pic.twitter.com/VI9cGiBNiN

— Jim DeFede (@DeFede) March 8, 2022

 

These clowns are so desperate to prove they're in the know with what the kids are into these days by throwing around terms like "woke" and stuff but only to use it as their latest boogeyman terms to scare the vulnerable (because Republicans love nothing more than their boogeyman terms to scare the vulnerable). And that's not even getting into the absurdity of a nearly 70-year-old man wailing about today's youth, which is fully embracing the Bitter Old White Man stereotype without even the slightest bit of self-awareness.

That's why Disney's role in stepping up against this bill and other hateful legislation in this state is important. It's not witches or pirates kids need to fear, it's awful politicians with insidious agendas.

As for those who are calling anyone who opposes the bill a "groomer" like DeSatan's press secretary (which I'm sure is an invitation that someone might want to check her computer...), while I am concerned about their harmful statements spreading around, there's also the case of karma being the ultimate bitch and, well, look at the hot water some of his allies are in. Every time they claim they're looking out for the children and call out their opponents as "pedophiles," the appropriate response is to fire back as to why they haven't said anything about some of his pals who are under investigation for child sex trafficking like Matt Gaetz unless they're worried that evidence will eventually come to light that they were involved in it (would I be shocked if DeSatan ended up a figure in that saga? Absolutely fucking not). That'll shut them up quick. Just remember, every accusation is usually a confession.

Edited March 31, 2022 by filmlover

[Tarintino]

I think the left and right just love to argue with one another regardless of the subject. The right dont want 7 years olds having their heads filled with sex ed as it's obviously alot to take in as a child whilst the left dont want the new law to make it easy for LGBTQ members to be surpressed given the poor wording of the new law. Instead of campaigning to remove the law completely, why not campaign to have it re-worded to give people a clearer view? Or is meeting half way just not an option when it comes to politics?

[excel1]

28 minutes ago, Tarintino said:

I think the left and right just love to argue with one another regardless of the subject. 

 

Bingo, along with loving to tell the other side what to do, how to think, how to live their life, etc; and certain pockets within each party just enjoy being miserable and complaining about something. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by excel1

[Torontofan]

3 hours ago, Tarintino said:

I think the left and right just love to argue with one another regardless of the subject. The right dont want 7 years olds having their heads filled with sex ed as it's obviously alot to take in as a child whilst the left dont want the new law to make it easy for LGBTQ members to be surpressed given the poor wording of the new law. Instead of campaigning to remove the law completely, why not campaign to have it re-worded to give people a clearer view? Or is meeting half way just not an option when it comes to politics?

 

That is has been the compromise in canada with LGTBQ education in canada.

 

It was deffered a few years to later grades and the controversy died down overnight. 

 

like it was a bit strange why do you need to teach grade 1 kids about consent and body parts when people call the cops on people for leaving a grade 1 kid unattended for 10 secs these days.

 

These conversations can easily happen in later grades. Like If i raise my kid as a girl I dont think at 5-6 she should be told be her teacher she could be any gender. That gonna just make her hella confused.

This is a conversation for when they are near their teens and more mature.  

 

Issue about Flordia bill is they are trying to ban these conversations which is wrong.

 

Like Parents believe banning these conversations is wrong as kids need to know...maybe unlike canada it should not start at grade 1.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Torontofan

[Walt Disney]

https://nypost.com/2022/03/31/disney-made-miscalculation-opposing-anti-lgbtq-bill-staffer/amp/

[Walt Disney]

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2022/03/30/it-would-be-a-disaster-florida-lawmakers-discuss-repealing-disneys-reedy-creek-government/?outputType=amp

[dudalb]

8 hours ago, Tarintino said:

I think the left and right just love to argue with one another regardless of the subject. The right dont want 7 years olds having their heads filled with sex ed as it's obviously alot to take in as a child whilst the left dont want the new law to make it easy for LGBTQ members to be surpressed given the poor wording of the new law. Instead of campaigning to remove the law completely, why not campaign to have it re-worded to give people a clearer view? Or is meeting half way just not an option when it comes to politics?

Sorry, but with this issue there is no middle option. You either beleive that the LGBT community are entitled to the same rights as any American, or they need to be discriminated against and treated as second class citizens.

 

It is one or the other.

And remember that old saying that the hottest place in hell is reserved ro those, who in time of great moral crisis, refuse to take a position.

 

Anybody who not see this bill is just the first step toward stripping the LBGT communiry of their rights is living in another realtiy.

[dudalb]

3 hours ago, Walt Disney said:

https://nypost.com/2022/03/31/disney-made-miscalculation-opposing-anti-lgbtq-bill-staffer/amp/

You do the New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch, has a very heavy right wing bias.

It is basically Fox News in Print and to be mistrusted accordingly.

[excel1]

1 hour ago, dudalb said:

Sorry, but with this issue there is no middle option. You either beleive that the LGBT community are entitled to the same rights as any American, or they need to be discriminated against and treated as second class citizens.

 

Huh? I think a lot of people's position would be that sexuality be generally kept out of k-3, and that would include straight people, i.e. teachers do not need to be talking about their partners to a 2nd grader, period. If a 3rd graders partner comes by, there is no need to do something overtly affectionate. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by excel1

[Mr Terrific]

Yeah, that’s absurd. Teachers of very young kids should act like human beings with lives. Asking them to no-comment about what their lives are like on a very simple level is more damaging than helpful. 
If a teacher actually did something inappropriate, that can be handled at the building or school district level - - it doesn’t need a state law. 

[Walt Disney]

1 hour ago, dudalb said:

You do the New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch, has a very heavy right wing bias.

It is basically Fox News in Print and to be mistrusted accordingly.

So you’re saying the politician in the story did not say what he was reported to have said?

[Walt Disney]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna22426

[excel1]

1 hour ago, Mr Terrific said:

Yeah, that’s absurd. Teachers of very young kids should act like human beings with lives. Asking them to no-comment about what their lives are like on a very simple level is more damaging than helpful. If a teacher actually did something inappropriate, that can be handled at the building or school district level - - it doesn’t need a state law. 

 

You misunderstood. If people are asked to take a position on sexuality in front of k-3 , I don't think they're going to discriminate simply against LGBTQ, many are going to say "just get rid of all of it". 

 

What is "absurd" is taking the notion of "How do the masses of everyday citizens feel about the role of sexuality during a child's k-3 school experience" and responding with "Sorry, but with this issue there is no middle option. You either beleive that the LGBT community are entitled to the same rights as any American, or they need to be discriminated against and treated as second class citizens."

 

Yes, LGBT folks are entitled to the same rights as any American.

No, they should not be discriminated against in any way, shape, or form.

Yes, every day people have moral obligations to support anyone who is being subjected to discrimination of any type.

No, many parents who are concerned about sexuality in K-3 grades are not discriminating against anyone. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by excel1