Can Any Universe Top Marvel?

[dashrendar44]

I'm sorry but are you judging the size of a universe solely on how many spin offs it can spin off surrounding a single character?How many Iron Man characters have their own films? How many Captain America ones? Thor? 

 

That's the point of comparing cinematic universes.

 

If you combine Kirk and Picard, you didn't get a new series called "Star Trek: All Stars" living new adventures in that new franchise looming over the two components of its body. When you combine IM lore, CA lore, Thor lore, Hulk lore you got the Avengers series that spawns a new franchise.

 

 

I'm pretty sure if you put all of the Star Trek characters together you would get an ultimate adventure. To suggest otherwise is silly.

 

It's hypothetical, there hasn"t been an ultimate adventure in Star Trek universe that tried to combine most of ST characters into one big franchise. So it may have but it didn't so I'm not speaking in conjectures but actual facts.

Edited July 27, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

That's the point of comparing cinematic universes.If you combine Kirk and Picard, you didn't get a new series called Star Trek All Stars.When you combine IM lore, CA lore, Thor lore, Hulk lore you got the Avengers series.

No, you got Star Trek Generations. It didn't spawn a new series because of the age of the original cast and the generation gap between the characters.It was a passing the torch moment. I guess Paramount could try to make that series happen with a new next generation cast but I don't think it's necessary. Plus it would be convoluted as hell.If you add up the lore of Marvel Cinematic Universe with the lore of Star Trek, Trek has so much more.

[dashrendar44]

No, you got Star Trek Generations. It didn't spawn a new series because of the age of the original cast and the generation gap between the characters.It was a passing the torch moment. I guess Paramount could try to make that series happen with a new next generation cast but I don't think it's necessary. Plus it would be convoluted as hell.If you add up the lore of Marvel Cinematic Universe with the lore of Star Trek, Trek has so much more.

 

Just like I said it was Kirk guest starring in the new Picard's centered movie series like a symbolic "torch passing".

 

They didn't make Star Trek Generations 1, 2, 3 and so on independently of the existing individual series like it could be one overarching super series running in parallel like Avengers is to individual Marvel characters. And you said that's pretty much not possible to do in terms of coherence. That's what I've been arguing in favor of MCU. Nothing more.

Edited July 27, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

Just like I said it was Kirk guest starring in the new Picard's centered movie series like a symbolic "torch passing". They didn't make Star Trek Generations 1, 2, 3 and so on independently of the existing individual series like it could be one overarching super series running in parallel like Avengers is to individual Marvel characters. And you said that's pretty much not possible to do in terms of coherence. That's what I've been arguing in favor of MCU. Nothing more.

And I've been arguing that doesn't actually make a universe bigger. ;)The fact that Star Trek can't easily do that is because the universe is just that big.

[dashrendar44]

And I've been arguing that doesn't actually make a universe bigger. ;)The fact that Star Trek can't easily do that is because the universe is just that big.

 

Or the TOS cast is too old to pull that off.

 

With PerfCap technology and VFX advancements, you could make a Star Trek:Super Stars series combining all the separate franchises into one like a DOFP of the Star Trek Universe. That's what the Star Trek reboot tried to do, imo.

 

It's not because an universe is spanning over several centuries that makes it "bigger" if we're only following an handful of characters in one franchise. If you can spawn different franchises for each characters living separate adventures, that makes it potentially bigger and one another story. When you compare the amount of characters in Star Trek universe that spawned an individual franchise and lore compared to Marvel universe characters. The advantage is to Marvel.

Edited July 27, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

Or the TOS cast is too old to pull that off.

That too. I do think a TOS/TNG/VOY/ENT/DS9 movie would be fucking epic with the right budget and circumstances.

[dashrendar44]

That too.I do think a TOS/TNG/VOY/ENT/DS9 movie would be fucking epic with the right budget and circumstances.

 

Yeah, that would be the ultimate Star Trek experience ever.

[Water Bottle]

It's not because an universe is spanning over several centuries that makes it "bigger" if we're only following an handful of characters in one franchise. If you can spawn different franchises for each characters living separate adventures, that makes it potentially bigger and one another story. When you compare the amount of characters in Star Trek universe that spawned an individual franchise and lore compared to Marvel universe characters. The advantage is to Marvel.

Nice try trying to win the argument via edit after I posted.In Star Trek, we follow more characters than in Marvel. ;)As I said, it's less about the individual and more about the ship crew. VICTOR: Star Trek.

[The47th]

It's not because an universe is spanning over several centuries that makes it "bigger" if we're only following an handful of characters in one franchise. If you can spawn different franchises for each characters living separate adventures, that makes it potentially bigger and one another story. When you compare the amount of characters in Star Trek universe that spawned an individual franchise and lore compared to Marvel universe characters. The advantage is to Marvel.

 

It's like, you are saying that a franchise exclusively formed by TOS and separate spin offs based on Spock, McCoy, Uhura and the Tribbles would be more complex than one that tells the story of the different crews of the Enterprise, some other Federation members and all the worlds of the galaxy through three centuries.

 

A little statistic. From IMDb,The Avengers, which combined all main characters from the different spin offs, had 14 main cast members. If they made the absolute Avengers equivalent in the Star Trek universe (although all shows interact with the others at many points), that film would need to have 42 main characters. And that's leaving out villains and appearances from some of the important guest stars of each show, the equivalents to Loki and Pepper Potts.

Edited July 27, 2014 by The47th

[dashrendar44]

Nice try trying to win the argument via edit after I posted.In Star Trek, we follow more characters than in Marvel. ;)As I said, it's less about the individual and more about the ship crew.VICTOR: Star Trek.

 

So

 

- Star Trek

 

 

is made of TOS, TNG, VOY, ENT, DS9 and the movie series = 6 series total.

 

- Marvel

 

(for now)

 

got Avengers movie franchise, Guardians Of The Galaxy movie franchise in the works, Agents of SHIELD TV Series (Netflix TV series to come) , Ant-Man and Doctor Strange movies incoming.

 

Avengers movie franchise can be broken down into Iron Man movie franchise (3 movies), Thor movie franchise (2 movies), Captain America movie franchise (2 movies and one in the works), Hulk movie franchise (1 movie). Each of them carries its own lore.

 

That's already 7 series in that universe established and 2 series in the making but they barely scratched the surface. They don't even own Spider-Man franchise, X-Men franchise that spawned Wolverine franchise and FF4 franchise. That would have added 4 franchises to the count. Plus Ghost Rider franchise, Blade franchise, Daredevil and Elektra that were made as well so there are 8 series that were made out of their Marvel universe without even owning those cinematic rights. That's even more mind-boggling like a parrallel Marvel movie world co-existing with Disney/Marvel cinematic universe. (You add it all, that makes 15 separate series at least being milked out Marvel Universe for the last 15 years).

 

Now when you know that Marvel comics universe got other team-ups of superheroes series like Thunderbolts, Inhumans, Nightstalkers which can be broken down in individual franchises like The Avengers. You add parallel universes, microcosms, alternate realities, time travels, mystical dimensions, retcons.

 

VICTOR: MARVEL.

 

It's like, you are saying that a franchise exclusively formed by TOS and separate spin offs based on Spock, McCoy, Uhura and the Tribbles would be more complex than one that tells the story of the different crews of the Enterprise, some other Federation members and all the worlds of the galaxy through three centuries.

 

It's not exactly what I'm saying, it would be much more complex and bigger than Marvel if each individual of TOS (and DS9, TNG, Enterprise and Voyager) would carry their own "universe" in their spin-offs. That would automatically make one gigantic web of a complex universe.

 

Like it is, Star Trek universe is made of diffferent ensemble cast/crew carrying one series each that can't be broken down in individual spin-offs. Like WB said, Star Trek is about the team not the individuals unlike Marvel which is both making it bigger in terms of lore.

Edited July 27, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

So - Star Trek is made of TOS, TNG, VOY, ENT, DS9 and the movie series = 6 series total. - Marvel (for now) got Avengers movie franchise, Guardians Of The Galaxy movie franchise in the works, Agents of SHIELD TV Series (Netflix TV series to come) , Ant-Man and Doctor Strange movies incoming. Avengers movie franchise can be broken down into Iron Man movie franchise (3 movies), Thor movie franchise (2 movies), Captain America movie franchise (2 movies and one in the works), Hulk movie franchise (1 movie). Each of them carries its own lore. That's already 7 series in that universe established and 2 series in the making but they barely scratched the surface. They don't even own Spider-Man franchise, X-Men franchise that spawned Wolverine franchise and FF4 franchise. That would have added 4 franchises to the count. Plus Ghost Rider franchise, Blade franchise, Daredevil and Elektra that were made as well so there are 8 series that were made out of their Marvel universe without even owning those cinematic rights. That's even more mind-boggling like a parrallel Marvel movie world co-existing with Disney/Marvel cinematic universe. (You add it all, that makes 15 separate series at least being milked out Marvel Universe for the last 15 years). Now when you know that Marvel comics universe got other team-ups of superheroes series like Thunderbolts, Inhumans, Nightstalkers which can be broken down in individual franchises like The Avengers. You add parallel universes, microcosms, alternate realities, time travels, mystical dimensions, retcons. VICTOR: MARVEL. It's not exactly what I'm saying, it would be much more complex and bigger than Marvel if each individual of TOS (and DS9, TNG, Enterprise and Voyager) would carry their own "universe" in their spin-offs. That would automatically make one gigantic web of a complex universe. Like it is, Star Trek universe is made of diffferent ensemble cast/crew carrying one series each that can't be broken down in individual spin-offs. Like WB said, Star Trek is about the team not the individuals unlike Marvel which is both making it bigger in terms of lore.

Those six series has given us over 700 adventures that all built lore. Marvel might have more franchises but come on, it doesn't match Star Treks total adventures.

[dashrendar44]

Those six series has given us over 700 adventures that all built lore. Marvel might have more franchises but come on, it doesn't match Star Treks total adventures.

 

Dr Who produced 800 episodes/adventures (+ Torchwood's 47 episodes, Sarah Jane Adventures 53 episodes, K9's 26 episodes). Is Dr Who universe bigger than Star trek universe then?

Edited July 27, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

Dr Who produced 800 episodes/adventures. Is Dr Who universe bigger than Star trek universe then?

Yes. Only reason I haven't brought it up is a lack of a cinematic experience that I'm aware off.

[dashrendar44]

Yes. Only reason I haven't brought it up is a lack of a cinematic experience that I'm aware off.

 

Okay. If we only take "cinematic experiences" Marvel is on track to own Star Trek cinematic universe soon.

 

Star Trek cinematic experience = 12 movies + 1 in the making (ST3)

 

Marvel cinematic experience = 10 movies + 2 movies in the making (AoU and Ant-Man) + 3 movies already announced and slated (Cap 3, Dr Strange, GOTG2)

 

(If you add the franchises like Spider-Man, FF and X-Men, Marvel has already overwhelmed Star Trek in terms of cinematic experiences being made out of its universe)

Edited July 27, 2014 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

Okay. If we only take "cinematic experiences" Marvel is on track to own Star Trek cinematic universe soon.

 

Star Trek cinematic experience = 12 movies + 1 in the making (ST3)

 

Marvel cinematic experience = 10 movies + 2 movies in the making (AoU and Ant-Man) + 3 movies already announced and slated (Cap 3, Dr Strange, GOTG2)

 

(If you add the franchises like Spider-Man, FF and X-Men, Marvel has already overwhelmed Star Trek in terms of cinematic experiences being made out of its universe)

 

I didn't say I was only taking cinematic experiences into consideration, only that it was a prerequisite for consideration in this debate. I'm taking what is considered cannon into consideration.

 

Oh, why do you keep bringing up Spider-Man, FF, and X-Men? They might be Marvel characters but they aren't a part of the MCU cannon and therefore....irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[Kalel009Shel]

 Hawkgirl is upset now.

lol

[Kalel009Shel]

Also what happens if James Cameron decides to go beyond Avatar 4 and let others take over whiile

he works on Battlefield Angelita? :-O!!

[Kalel009Shel]

Those six series has given us over 700 adventures that all built lore. Marvel might have more franchises but come on, it doesn't match Star Treks total adventures.

Proably never will..Also all that money ST made from 60s to current I dont think anything can

quite be its match... I mean boooks,  Multiple-hit TV  shows, syndication... Films.... Star Trek universe is awe-inspiring!!

[Spidey Freak]

 

It doesn't have more depth and scope. I'm sorry but it simply doesn't. The scope of Star Trek is space and time. There's literally hundreds of planets that the franchise has explored. It would take way more than ten years for MCU to come close.

 

That's an argument of which universe is better, not which is bigger. Nice try.

 

Lol you just contradicted yourself there. If you agree that MCU is better, then that is because it has more depth than Trek. As for scope, the MCU is fundamentally based on time and space too. This will be further explored when Doctor Strange comes along and when the Infinity Gems/Stones are analysed in further detail. Possibly in Thor 3 and GotG 2.

 

Not to mention beyond Phase 3, when Inhumans, the Celestials and the Kree and Skrull saga may come into play. At that point, there will be nothing to beat the MCU in its vast depth/scope combination. Sure Trekkers may have more planets and races, but on a whole, the depth is hardly there to a whooping majority of those races as compared to the major ones in the MCU.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Spidey Freak

[Spidey Freak]

Proably never will..Also all that money ST made from 60s to current I dont think anything can

quite be its match... I mean boooks,  Multiple-hit TV  shows, syndication... Films.... Star Trek universe is awe-inspiring!!

 

Eh... I'm sure Marvel makes ten times the revenue (if not more) of what the Star Trek property brings in.