Frozen II | Nov 22 2019 | 2nd Most Profitable Movie of 2019. Disney does it again! | Documentary series coming to D+ June 26

[FrozenUnicorn]

On 6/12/2019 at 6:19 PM, The Futurist said:

Is Ripley a Disney princess now ?

 

No, and Neytiri isn't either. From what I've heard, there are several requirements to be considered an official Disney Princess: 

 

1. Must be a lead female in an animated Disney movie

2. Must be human

3. Must be born royal, marry a royal, or perform a significant act of heroism (hence Mulan) 

3. Must have the movie be a success at the box office 

 

So Ripley wouldn't be one because of Rule 1, but you might be able to count Anastasia in a technicality (Probably won't happen, though). However, I could see Disney making a live-action remake of Anastasia.

 

i think that if Hercules had made more money Meg would be considered one. She saved Hercules's life.

Edited June 15, 2019 by FrozenUnicorn

[Melvin Frohike]

On 6/12/2019 at 4:45 PM, captainwondyful said:

Disney is All About IMAGINATION.

Imagination doesn't mean that anything and everything goes.  In order to be believable and engaging, it needs to be grounded in some sort of internally consistent reality, as well as honor continuity.  Every idea you have suggested would not make for good storytelling, no matter how imaginative.  Such a spoof might be entertaining for some, but as for WDAS making it for general release, as their usual high-budget tent pole movie, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

On 6/12/2019 at 4:50 PM, Rorschach said:

A Disney Princess team-up movie would probably be the film to dethrone Avatar at the worldwide box office methinks.

Nah, what was done with the princesses in Ralph Breaks the Internet was pretty entertaining and high-profile, yet it didn't seem to help much at the box office.  The movie did OK, but less than what Disney would expect from an original WDAS movie, let alone a sequel.  Fans might have been geeking out over this, but the general public are not exactly dying to experience a Disney princess overload, much less a feature-length one with a necessarily highly contrived premise (or even one with a solid story, if that would be possible).  I don't mean to be such a killjoy, but not everything can or indeed should imitate the MCU.

[TalismanRing]

2 hours ago, Melvin Frohike said:

Says you.  That's certainly not what I said or meant.  I think the relatively recent Disney animated features starting with Bolt have all been great, but among them Frozen is a cut above the rest.

I'd easily place Moana and Zootopia above it - both exceptional movies

 

I also preferred Princess & The Frog.

 

Oh what the heck - a 2008 -2018 WDAS ranking

 

(4-7 could all easily be switched around)

 

1. Moana
2. Zootopia
3. Princess & the Frog
4. Wreck It Ralph
5. Frozen
6. Tangled
7. Big Hero Six
8. Bolt
9. WIR2  (easily the weakest but the Princess scenes - especially the rescue were A +)

 

Edited June 15, 2019 by TalismanRing

[FrozenUnicorn]

My list of those 2008-2018 WDAS movies I've seen all the way through (haven't watched WiR2 yet and haven't finished BH6)

 

1. Frozen 

2. Zootopia 

3. Tangled 

4. Wreck-It Ralph 

5. Bolt 

6. Meet the Robinsons 

7. Moana 

8. The Princess and the Frog (I would have probably liked it better if it had a different setting, 1930's bores me) 

9. Winnie the Pooh

 

Edited to add Pooh and Meet the Robinsons since I forgot those.

Edited June 16, 2019 by FrozenUnicorn

[Melvin Frohike]

On 6/13/2019 at 2:27 PM, cannastop said:

That's partly because Frozen fits in with their marketing paradigm better than Big Hero 6 or Zootopia.

When and why?  Before its release, no one at Disney wanted to touch Frozen--only WDAS had any faith that they had created something worthwhile and compelling, but even they weren't sure how the public would receive their creation (worldwide, only Disney Japan saw its potential and promoted it as a special event movie, with little information booklets for moviegoers and everything).  The movie had the usual lame trailers, but I only saw infrequent 5- and 15-second TV ads during late-night TV (one of the cheapest times).  ABC never helped promote the movie on Good Morning America (although it would later on after the movie became a huge blockbuster).  The only interview I saw was Idina Menzel on the Today show, which is owned by one of Disney's main competitors, and that was because it was of interest to Broadway fans.  And at the Disney theme parks, the usual plans to have princess walkaround/meet & greet characters were put on hold until they knew whether the movie would flop.  Then after the movie became a massive phenomenon, the parks had to scramble to quickly come up with tie-ins, some of which suffered from the lack of preparation and time.

 

What Frozen did it did on its own, left practically out in the cold (so to speak) as a likely flop, and that probably had something to do with the fact that it had two female leads (ironic these days with female leads--including the obviously crappy ones--being shoved down our throats by marketing now).  Only after it broke out and garnered a lot of attention did Disney support and begin to promote the movie, and they've kept doing this because it also became a merchandising phenomenon.  The latter is probably how it fits any marketing paradigm Disney might have, but given what Frozen accomplished on its own and how it was treated by Disney before its release, I wouldn't credit Disney with its longevity.  No matter what Disney/WDAS fans may think, even with the backlash from "Let It Go" (most of which comes from people who haven't seen the movie anyway) the general public loves this movie more than other recent Disney animated features, and finds it more memorable.  Disney never hyped it before release, and it doesn't need Disney's manufactured hype now.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Melvin Frohike

[Cap]

 

 

1

1 hour ago, Melvin Frohike said:

but the general public are not exactly dying to experience a Disney princess overload, much less a feature-length one with a necessarily highly contrived premise (or even one with a solid story, if that would be possible).  I don't mean to be such a killjoy, but not everything can or indeed should imitate the MCU.

No, you're not being a killjoy.  You're just underestimating the potential profits of the female fandom and female consumer base.  It's a thing.  No worries. 

[Legion Again]

Frozen

Zootopia

Moana

Wreck-it Ralph

Tangled

BH6

Ralph 2

Bolt

[Melvin Frohike]

1 hour ago, TalismanRing said:

Oh what the heck - a 2008 -2018 WDAS ranking

Here is mine:

 

1. Frozen
2. Tangled
3. Wreck-It Ralph
4. The Princess and the Frog
5. Big Hero 6
6. Zootopia
7. Bolt
8. Moana
9. Ralph Breaks the Internet

 

Frozen is, for me, the Beauty and the Beast of the current Disney Revival era--the big standout of its era.  For the public, however, it may be more like The Lion King from the Disney Renaissance era, but I'm not real fond of The Lion King.

[FrozenUnicorn]

1 hour ago, Melvin Frohike said:

Nah, what was done with the princesses in Ralph Breaks the Internet was pretty entertaining and high-profile, yet it didn't seem to help much at the box office.  The movie did OK, but less than what Disney would expect from an original WDAS movie, let alone a sequel.  Fans might have been geeking out over this, but the general public are not exactly dying to experience a Disney princess overload, much less a feature-length one with a necessarily highly contrived premise (or even one with a solid story, if that would be possible).  I don't mean to be such a killjoy, but not everything can or indeed should imitate the MCU.

 

I think the reason why the Princess crossover didn't seem to do much for WiR2 at the box office is because, well, it's a WiR movie, not a Disney Princess crossover movie. At most the Princesses would only be in the movie for a couple scenes, but Ralph and Vanellope are the central characters. 

 

I don't think it would be plausible to have a mega Disney Princess crossover like that because the majority of them live in different time periods and places, unless dimension-hopping/time travel was involved (Tangled/Frozen potentially being the exception if the fan theory of them being related is ever made canon). If there was a feasible reason to have them interact a crossover could work, at least between a few of them.

[PNF2187]

I'm gonna do 2009-2018 since I haven't seen Bolt or Meet the Robinsons:

 

1. Moana

2. Wreck-It Ralph

3. Zootopia

4. Tangled

5. Big Hero 6

6. The Princess and the Frog

7. Frozen

8. Winnie the Pooh

9. Ralph Breaks the Internet

 

2-5 could easily be switched around, and I still like Ralph Breaks the Internet more than most Pixar films from this past decade, so a pretty enjoyable decade from Disney Animation so far.

[Royce]

Tangled is such an underrated Disney classic (yes, it's a classic)

 

The stuff with the parents always gets me

 

 

This song is also underrated

 

 

[Melvin Frohike]

37 minutes ago, captainwondyful said:

No, you're not being a killjoy.  You're just underestimating the potential profits of the female fandom and female consumer base.  It's a thing.  No worries. 

So everything female sells, no matter what?  Like, for example, the female Ghostbusters, I suppose?  I based what I said on the fact that contrary to the expectations of many fans, those well publicized and hyped Disney princess scenes clearly did not give Ralph Breaks the Internet a major boost at the box office--not even on OW.

 

What are you going to tell me next, that the WNBA must be more popular than the NBA because the players are female?

[Cap]

12 minutes ago, Melvin Frohike said:

So everything female sells, no matter what?  Like, for example, the female Ghostbusters, I suppose?  I based what I said on the fact that contrary to the expectations of many fans, those well publicized and hyped Disney princess scenes clearly did not give Ralph Breaks the Internet a major boost at the box office--not even on OW.

 

What are you going to tell me next, that the WNBA must be more popular than the NBA because the players are female?

 

Girl, I'm not talking about Ghostbusters or the WNBA.  I'm talking about Disney Princesses.  You know, the BillIon Dollar A Year Revenue Score for Disney?  If you're not going to come with receipts, we're done.

 

[Melvin Frohike]

35 minutes ago, FrozenUnicorn said:

I think the reason why the Princess crossover didn't seem to do much for WiR2 at the box office is because, well, it's a WiR movie, not a Disney Princess crossover movie. At most the Princesses would only be in the movie for a couple scenes, but Ralph and Vanellope are the central characters.

Nevertheless, many fans fully expected a sizable boost to the movie from these scenes, and were proven wrong, as I think they might well be for a full Disney princess crossover movie, as well.  You are right that these are not exactly the same thing, but another aspect is fan expectations versus reality, and from this point of view I'm not convinced that fans know what the public want.  Maybe the public would respond differently, but maybe not, and this example is the only evidence we have to go on.

 

By the way, I was one of those fans referenced above, and I'm trying to learn from my mistakes.

[Melvin Frohike]

45 minutes ago, captainwondyful said:

Girl, I'm not talking about Ghostbusters or the WNBA.  I'm talking about Disney Princesses.  You know, the BillIon Dollar A Year Revenue Score for Disney?  If you're not going to come with receipts, we're done.

I'm not a girl (not that it's relevant), and you're the one who brought up gender.  If that's what you consider reasoning, then indeed we are done.  The Disney princesses did squat for Ralph Breaks the Internet, which implies there are limits to their appeal when mashed together.  And here we have people thinking a whole movie of this could challenge Avatar at the box office--that's what is truly laughable.  You can't do that just with little girls who get their parents to buy a ton of merchandise for them--you need broader appeal than that.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Melvin Frohike

[Darth Lehnsherr]

1. Zootopia 

2. Wreck-It Ralph

3. Moana

4. Frozen

5. Tangled

6. Winnie the Pooh

7. Big Hero 6

8. The Princess and the Frog

9. Ralph Breaks the Internet

10. Bolt 

[cannastop]

1. Zootopia
2. Frozen
3. Princess and the Frog
4. Bolt
5. Moana
6. Big Hero 6
7. Wreck it Ralph
8. Meet the Robinsons

Haven't seen the others.

Edited June 15, 2019 by cannastop

[AniNate]

A Disney Princess crossover movie is a terrible idea and should be immediately expunged from all human neurological entities. 

[Melvin Frohike]

 

8 hours ago, FrozenUnicorn said:

No, and Neytiri isn't either. From what I've heard, there are several requirements to be considered an official Disney Princess: 

 

1. Must be a lead female in an animated Disney movie

2. Must be human

3. Must be born royal, marry a royal, or perform a significant act of heroism (hence Mulan) 

3. Must have the movie be a success at the box office 

These are the rules that the Disney Consumer Products (DCP) division use to justify the roster of their Disney Princess™ merchandise licensing franchise.  A lot of people consider this more broadly "official" but I don't see why.  The true underlying rule is whichever set of characters can be most effectively marketed as a group in order to maximize merchandise sales.  There is no higher purpose that people seem to speak of, and this has nothing to do with WDAS, the creators of all but one of the characters.

 

By the way, Aurora, who is on the roster, violates the fourth rule because her movie, Sleeping Beauty, lost money at the box office during its initial release, and likewise Tiana violates the same rule because her movie, The Princess and the Frog, came in well below expectations--so much so that Disney gave up on hand-drawn animated features altogether as a result.  Then there is Merida, who is a creation of Pixar, unlike all of the other characters, who were created by WDAS.  Is she really a Disney princess?  Are Pixar animated features therefore Disney animated features?  I don't think so, and of course this weird situation is made fun of by WDAS in Ralph Breaks the Internet.

 

There are notable exclusions, as well, such as Vanellope, Elsa, Anna, and Moana, all of whom completely meet the above stated criteria (well, except for Vanellope being human, perhaps, but it's arguable).  I'm sure DCP have their reasons, such as the Frozen™ franchise being so huge on its own, but they're not reflected in the rules because like I said it's really about maximizing merchandise sales, and they haven't been able to think of an excuse yet.  Note that WDAS chose to include all four because obviously Vanellope would be there and it would just seem too weird for the other three to be missing.  See how useless DCP's rules are?  Who are they to tell us whom to consider a Disney princess anyway?  They're merchandise peddlers, not the creators of these characters.

 

Quote

i think that if Hercules had made more money Meg would be considered one. She saved Hercules's life.

What about Aurora and Tiana, though?  Hercules was a bigger hit than The Princess and the Frog.  DCP just didn't consider Meg marketable, perhaps for her stylization and other traits (too many European princesses?) that have nothing to do with their rules, and the same is very likely true of Vanellope.  This is all the more reason not to take DCP's franchise and its supposed rules seriously.  It's really simpler than that, as I stated in a previous post--forget merchandise and DCP, a Disney princess is a princess character created by WDAS.

 

4 hours ago, tribefan695 said:

A Disney Princess crossover movie is a terrible idea and should be immediately expunged from all human neurological entities. 

Nicely put, and I agree.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Melvin Frohike

[catlover]

1. Moana

2. Frozen

3. Zootopia

4. Big Hero 6

5. Tangled

6. The Princess and the Frog

7. Wreck-It Ralph

8. Bolt

9. Ralph Breaks the Internet

 

Doesn't mean WiR2 is bad. It's actually really good. It's just the others are better. To me, 1-3 are almost equal.