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Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald | 16 NOV 2018 | NO SPOILERS | Trailer Page 89

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7 hours ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

FB3 wouldn't be in the same position as Justice League though. They didn't stupidly schedule it to start shooting weeks after FB2's opening weekend. There is time to address any issues during the scripting stage and to hire another director if that want.

JL's ill-planing and last minute fixes ballooned JL's prod budget, else it would not have been a flop despite "only" 660 ww gross. If FB3 is marketed like end of trilogy, is kept within 200 prod budget via stronger back-end deals, then it should cross 625 ww if not more and be profitable.

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Finally saw it. I get why the reviews havn’t been great and my 11-year old daughter thought it was dull as dishwater.

 

I have a different view. In a nutshell, I think it is an absolute tragedy these weren’t written as books first. I think there’s an incredible, adult story being told, but the style and pacing is all wrong for movies.

 

If they were written as books and then converted into screenplays (by a proper screenwriter), they’d be killing it.

Edited by Wrath
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10 hours ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

FB3 wouldn't be in the same position as Justice League though. They didn't stupidly schedule it to start shooting weeks after FB2's opening weekend. There is time to address any issues during the scripting stage and to hire another director if that want.

I think if they want to get everything right, delay production and also move the release date from 2020 to 2021. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Wrath said:

my 11-year old daughter thought it was dull as dishwater.

I can understand it's not that enjoyable for children. It's an adult movie. I'd call it a pageturner if it were a book. 

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5 hours ago, Wrath said:

Finally saw it. I get why the reviews havn’t been great and my 11-year old daughter thought it was dull as dishwater.

 

I have a different view. In a nutshell, I think it is an absolute tragedy these weren’t written as books first. I think there’s an incredible, adult story being told, but the style and pacing is all wrong for movies.

 

If they were written as books and then converted into screenplays (by a proper screenwriter), they’d be killing it.

This is exactly the problem. Rowling is a great storyteller of the kind of books she writes. She had a huge story mapped out for these, but she's not a screenwriter. She tried to cram all the details, exposition, backstory, etc of a 700 page novel into a 2 hour film, and that just doesn't work. You need to be highly visual and concise when writing a screenplay. Too much exposition drags on and becomes dull. You need constant action.

 

If they want this series to survive and also not kill the chance of further Potter spin offs, they desperately need to hire a new screenwriter and have Rowling co-write (aka only come up with the stories).

 

And a new director wouldn't hurt either. Yates is ok but he's not an artist. The only death that actually resonated in all the films he did was Dobby. 

Edited by Hunch
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I don't agree with changing Yates. The movie has a script problem, it's too convulted, and a screen writter working hand in hand with Jo would fix things.

The technical aspects of the film have been praised, hence, changing Yates, who already knows the Wizarding World so well, would be a huge mistake.

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2 hours ago, Gaston Zylbering said:

I don't agree with changing Yates. The movie has a script problem, it's too convulted, and a screen writter working hand in hand with Jo would fix things.

The technical aspects of the film have been praised, hence, changing Yates, who already knows the Wizarding World so well, would be a huge mistake.

How come no one at WB noticed they had "a script problem"...? 

 

But I suppose they thought JK and Yates could do no wrong...

 

On the other hand, after JL, I'd think WB would be questioning/pondering *everything* a little bit more...

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They should just cancel the third Fantastic Beasts movie and let the franchise rest in peace. Maybe they can try to come back to Hogwarts in ten years or so with the original cast coming back as the parents of a new generation. But the more Fantastic Beasts movies they do will damage the brand more.

 

12 hours ago, Welfin said:

 I'm sure kids are all over those Newt Scamander and Tina Goldstein action figures. Hottest items of the holiday! 

 

 

Does anybody watch these movies and go "I want an action figure of most of these beasts?" Maybe like a stuffed animal of the creature that keeps stealing items but the rest are just so.....ugly.  

 

5 hours ago, Gaston Zylbering said:

The technical aspects of the film have been praised, hence, changing Yates, who already knows the Wizarding World so well, would be a huge mistake.

 

You can easily change directors and the technical aspects would be fine unless WB really messed up hiring the new director. 

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3 hours ago, Macleod said:

How come no one at WB noticed they had "a script problem"...? 

 

But I suppose they thought JK and Yates could do no wrong...

 

On the other hand, after JL, I'd think WB would be questioning/pondering *everything* a little bit more...

Well, the general opinion is that the movie has a script problem (it doesn't for me, however, i can see why for some people it might be too convulted). First, WB is proving to be quite bad at evaluating scripts (DCU movies, hello). Second, JK has total creative control, and given how successful the first FB movie was, i can see why..

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16 hours ago, Water Bottle said:

They should just cancel the third Fantastic Beasts movie and let the franchise rest in peace

 

 The third movie is already confirmed(for now) to be happening. One misfire shouldn't be cause for all this doom and gloom talk. Feels like every franchise these days is having some issue in one form or another. 

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On 11/25/2018 at 11:55 PM, Macleod said:

How come no one at WB noticed they had "a script problem"...? 

 

But I suppose they thought JK and Yates could do no wrong...

 

On the other hand, after JL, I'd think WB would be questioning/pondering *everything* a little bit more...

I think with the creative control JK Rowling has, they probably let her do what she wants given how much money the Potter films made

 

Also FB2 was deep in production when JL was released so perhaps they didn't want to make any changes to avoid a similar situation. 

Edited by Jonwo

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20 hours ago, clockwork said:

 The third movie is already confirmed(for now) to be happening. One misfire shouldn't be cause for all this doom and gloom talk. Feels like every franchise these days is having some issue in one form or another. 

 

The third movie isn't going to do very well unless there's some massive course correction and the marketing can sell people to come back for a third movie in an underwhelming pretty poor spin-off series. The issue here is that after two movies I could give a crap what happens next or about any of these characters. I have zero interest in a third movie.

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1 hour ago, Water Bottle said:

 

The third movie isn't going to do very well unless there's some massive course correction and the marketing can sell people to come back for a third movie in an underwhelming pretty poor spin-off series. The issue here is that after two movies I could give a crap what happens next or about any of these characters. I have zero interest in a third movie.

It's not like people really hated this movie, there was disappointment but it's wasn't vitriolic so I doubt the third movie will be hurt badly. I'll still be seeing the next one, and the one after that and so on.  I'm more invested in the world than the characters themselves anyway, so i don't need to connect or care about them to enjoy these movies, or any movie for that matter. 

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1 hour ago, clockwork said:

It's not like people really hated this movie, there was disappointment but it's wasn't vitriolic so I doubt the third movie will be hurt badly. I'll still be seeing the next one, and the one after that and so on.  I'm more invested in the world than the characters themselves anyway, so i don't need to connect or care about them to enjoy these movies, or any movie for that matter. 

 

I mean I think I sense more apathy than vitriol from people online and it's the apathy, not the vitriol, that will lead to a bigger decrease. A lot of people who might have seen it in theaters if they were hooked are gonna wait for Netflix before they see it. 

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1 hour ago, clockwork said:

It's not like people really hated this movie, there was disappointment but it's wasn't vitriolic so I doubt the third movie will be hurt badly. I'll still be seeing the next one, and the one after that and so on.  I'm more invested in the world than the characters themselves anyway, so i don't need to connect or care about them to enjoy these movies, or any movie for that matter. 

I am just the opposite. Main reason I have not been thrilled by the two films in the spin off series is that the charecters are not nearly as interesting as those in the Potter films.

Of course the thrird film is going forward, but you can bet Warners will be having a lot of meetings about making some "Changes".

It's like the DC Frnchise not bombing but not making anywhere near what Warners was expecting.

Someobdy has just got to tell Rowling that as a screenwriter she leaves a lot to be desired.

And if the third one does not deliver the kind of figures that Warners expects, it might be the last one in the frachise.

 

Edited by dudalb

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22 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

I mean I think I sense more apathy than vitriol from people online and it's the apathy, not the vitriol, that will lead to a bigger decrease. A lot of people who might have seen it in theaters if they were hooked are gonna wait for Netflix before they see it. 

The heavy duty Potter fans love it, but a lot of the others seem to be losing interest n the franchise.

 

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On 11/25/2018 at 12:00 PM, Jonwo said:

I think if they want to get everything right, delay production and also move the release date from 2020 to 2021. 

 

 

Why would they do that? Ruining the consistency of the film’s release schedule would seriously mess up the franchise and only lead to even further disconnect and diminishing returns. Short of writing 5 novelizations, there’s nothing they will do that will cause the film to be pushed back a whole year. No. That wouldn’t do anything.

 

This film is not a flop. It’s not a bomb. WW, it’s a success. And it’s not hated by audiences, contrary to what people on here are saying. It’s not being treated apathetically by audiences either, not the audiences going to see it. Look at its RT user score, Metacritic score, Google score, and IMDb score. Now compare those to The Last Jedi and Fallen Kingdom. 

 

There’s very little active hatred for this film. The fanbase loves it overall and most are mixed on it, saying that it’s an okay film. Not that it’s bad. A likely WW total in the 700M or even 600M range is not going to be seen as grounds for a release date shift or a massive upheaval BTS. Yates will still direct, Rowling will still write. At most, Kloves gets a co-writing credit.

 

People were so ready to say this film was a failure before it even came out. Yet it’s not. Certainly not yet. All is fine as if now. Rowling has already delivered one really well received movie and one movie that’s received mixed reception financially and critically. The latter because of the former. The people who are saying “she clearly can’t write screenplays” are being hilariously melodramatic. She can. She has delivered before. And she will continue to receive major billing as the writer and producer of this franchise, with small adjustments and additions. There’s no damage so huge that people need to be fired and big name directors and writers need to move in all of a sudden. Stop.

 

These are the problems that the film series has:

 

1) The critical reception to CoG. The film would not have performed quite as poorly as it did if the film avoided the negative reviews overall of course, but  if they hadn’t revealed them so early. Pushing the embargo by half a week would’ve done the film wonders at the domestic box office especially 

 

2) Films that are too short. Even with Rowling’s convoluted, packed style of plotting, these films could survive...if they simply extended the runtime to 2h30m instead of making sure everything falls neatly under 2h15m, the would have a well reviewed film that needn’t sacrifice complexity or some novelistic elements. They probably filmed everything Rowling wrote and then cut the film to pieces way too late in the process. They need to cut from the scripting and minimally so getting into the principal photography stage. They need more script editing and an increased runtime. Why is a film split between three different cities only a minute longer than a film that chronicled the events of a couple days in one city? Making a longer film is the only big change that needs to be made, tbh. 

 

3) I felt this early in the year: they NEED to have an announcement trailer in December like they had with the first film in front of Force Awakens. An entire year with no Fantastic Beasts doesn’t do them any favors. Think of the wonders an announcement trailer in front of SW IX and a teaser in front of Avengers 4 would do. The marketing quality just needs to be as good as it was for FB2, and this franchise would at least maintain instead of depreciating. To sustain a 5 film franchise across 9 years, you need embed it in the zeitgeist a bit, which they’ve done on a minute scale. They just need to do a bit more, and they can’t have massive gaps between installments at this point; people would forget about it. 

 

It’s a sequel. It’s results so far aren’t rockstar, but they’re fine. There’s a disappointment here, a success there. It’s a decidedly mixed bag that will prove to be a respectable enough success if not an outright success by the time it finishes it’s run. People are freaking out saying they need major release date changes and creative overhauls for a film with lukewarm response and a somewhat depreciated sequel. It’s not the viciously divisive disaster some are making it out to be. There’s no terrible WOM, there’s just not enough stellar WOM, and this can be fixed easily by making small tweaks. Also, this franchise not only has the benefit of having massive global appeal, but having good prospects for increases in whatever country the film travel’s to in its story. Like the good US BO performance for film 1, the French/European setting saw increases over the first one all over Europe, especially in France. This franchise, therefore, is likely safe from falling too far. 

 

Additionally, it’s matched film 1’s gross in Japan. It’s increased over the first in most of Europe, Russia, Africa and the Middle East, South America, India, SK, and Australasia. It’s still #1 WW and will likely stay there for a bit. That is more than making up for a an extremely mediocre BO in the US and a lukewarm taking in China. It should certainly reach 700 M. It’s only trailing the first by -8%. 

 

Changing things drastically would probably do more to hurt it than making no changes at all would. And no no no to the people saying this franchise needs more humor; the film had plenty of humor. It just needs time to be able to fully let each moment breathe. The films need and are going to get even darker considering the subject material; there’s no way they’re going to risk making light of WW2 and a tragic conflict between 2 former friends/lovers. The tone is not the issue here. Harry Potter is known at this point for its dark mystery and it’s thematic and emotional depth and complexity as much as it is for fun magic. Trying to turn this into a light Marvel-esque franchise will only serve to turn people away and irritate Rowling, who doesn’t generally write content like that. 

 

Edited by tramadolpants20
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5 hours ago, dudalb said:

I am just the opposite. Main reason I have not been thrilled by the two films in the spin off series is that the charecters are not nearly as interesting as those in the Potter films.

Of course the thrird film is going forward, but you can bet Warners will be having a lot of meetings about making some "Changes".

It's like the DC Frnchise not bombing but not making anywhere near what Warners was expecting.

Someobdy has just got to tell Rowling that as a screenwriter she leaves a lot to be desired.

And if the third one does not deliver the kind of figures that Warners expects, it might be the last one in the frachise.

 

It's difficult because WB doesn't want to damage the relationship with Rowling but the sake of the franchise, they'll have to kick her upstairs.

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9 minutes ago, Jonwo said:

It's difficult because WB doesn't want to damage the relationship with Rowling but the sake of the franchise, they'll have to kick her upstairs.

No they won’t. They’ll have to agree to longer films. Simple as that.

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24 minutes ago, tramadolpants20 said:

No they won’t. They’ll have to agree to longer films. Simple as that.

If you think Warner Bros. is going to release a longer film than this one as a follow-up, just to appease JK, emm...

Edited by Macleod
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