Theories on why Indiana Jones and Star Wars went from spiritual phenomena to scientific explanation

[grey ghost]

Indiana Jones went from very Christian plot devices to aliens.

 

Star Wars went from an ambiguous and Eastern faith-based "force" to one that is simply explained away with "midoclorians".

 

So why the move away from Western and Eastern religion?

 

Did George Lucas and/or Steven Spielberg convert to Scientology or something?

[Dementeleus]

With Indy, the answer's very easy: Lucas and Spielberg always wanted the movies to evoke the era that they were set in. In the 1930s, quests and mythological treasure-hunts were popular for serialized adventures, but by the 1950s, aliens and science-fiction were now the trend. So the movies reflect the popular serialized entertainment of the their time.

[tommycruise]

With Indy, the answer's very easy: Lucas and Spielberg always wanted the movies to evoke the era that they were set in. In the 1930s, quests and mythological treasure-hunts were popular for serialized adventures, but by the 1950s, aliens and science-fiction were now the trend. So the movies reflect the popular serialized entertainment of the their time.

The 4th movie is still stupid though

[grey ghost]

The 4th movie is still stupid though

 

The best Indiana Jones movies had Christian relics.

 

I'm not being preachy but I think the Indy character arc (no pun intended) work better with them.

[Dementeleus]

The best Indiana Jones movies had Christian relics.

I'm not being preachy but I think the Indy character arc (no pun intended) work better with them.

I agree... but I don't think the Christian relics are what made that the case.

[TServo2049]

Spielberg is Jewish, Lucas was raised Methodist but AFAIK is non-practicing, possibly even agnostic.

I don't think that has anything to do with it, I think Lucas just developed a habit of overwriting and overthinking his stories - or perhaps, the higher budgets, more advanced technology and lack of checks and balances allowed Lucas' overwriting tendencies to actually make it to the screen in a way they didn't. If you read the early drafts of Star Wars, they are in many ways as stilted and overwrought as the prequels.

80s Lucas, with Kasdan doing the screenwriting, may have been able to pull off a better ancient-aliens storyline. Maybe.

Edited November 19, 2014 by TServo2049

[Dementeleus]

Spielberg is Jewish, Lucas was raised Methodist but AFAIK is non-practicing, possibly even agnostic.

I don't think that has anything to do with it, I think Lucas just developed a habit of overwriting and overthinking his stories - or perhaps, the higher budgets, more advanced technology and lack of checks and balances allowed Lucas' overwriting tendencies to actually make it to the screen in a way they didn't. If you read the early drafts of Star Wars, they are in many ways as stilted and overwrought as the prequels.

80s Lucas, with Kasdan doing the screenwriting, may have been able to pull off a better ancient-aliens storyline. Maybe.

 

I remember reading a draft called "Indiana Jones and the Tree of Life" that was decent. (Or I thought so at the time). It was probably mid- to late-90s. I might even have that old copy somewhere (although it's probably all over the internet).

[TServo2049]

I know there was at least one hoax script floating around; the one I remember was attributed to Last Crusade screenwriter Jeffrey Boam. (I think it was the "Indiana Jones and the Sons of Darkness" script.)

Edited November 19, 2014 by TServo2049

[DeeCee]

I remember reading a draft called "Indiana Jones and the Tree of Life" that was decent. (Or I thought so at the time). It was probably mid- to late-90s. I might even have that old copy somewhere (although it's probably all over the internet).

And then after a re-write they took out Indiana Jones.

[Dementeleus]

And then after a re-write they took out Indiana Jones.

 

And added lots of wind blowing through the grass and trees.

[Shadow]

The best Indiana Jones movies had Christian relics.

 

I'm not being preachy but I think the Indy character arc (no pun intended) work better with them.

 

 

Eh, personally I feel The Last Crusade was the weakest (and yes, I preferred Crystal Skull). I still like it but it retreading Raiders so much and the elevated levels of slapstick hurt it for me. Plus it feels so much like a toned down version of Raiders to me.

[Kvikk Lunsj]

With Indy, the answer's very easy: Lucas and Spielberg always wanted the movies to evoke the era that they were set in. In the 1930s, quests and mythological treasure-hunts were popular for serialized adventures, but by the 1950s, aliens and science-fiction were now the trend. So the movies reflect the popular serialized entertainment of the their time.

If the next one is set in the 1960s what was the poplar enterainment?

[Joel M]

If the next one is set in the 1960s what was the poplar enterainment?

 

still cold war spies but without the aliens

[Jessie]

There was nothing wrong with aliens in indy 4. Lmao off at all those people who thought spirits and re - incarnation was fine but draw the line at aliens which is far more plausible lol, give me a break. Indy 4 was dumb for other reasons

[Dark Jedi Master 007]

If the next one is set in the 1960s what was the poplar enterainment?

Hippies

[grey ghost]

There was nothing wrong with aliens in indy 4. Lmao off at all those people who thought spirits and re - incarnation was fine but draw the line at aliens which is far more plausible lol, give me a break. Indy 4 was dumb for other reasons

 

It's not about plausibility it's about something that resonates.

 

Raiders and Crusade have great third acts mostly because Indiana Jones is not just uncovering cultural relics, he is showing that there's a divine factor when defeating Nazis.

 

Plus the ending of Crusade when Indy goes through the dangerous puzzle-traps with his dying father guiding him outside of earshot and Indy finds the ancient knight protecting Jesus' cup (You have chosen wisely). I find that stuff relevant to my struggles through life.

 

Alot more relevant then alien skulls, anyway.

[Jessie]

It's not about plausibility it's about something that resonates.

 

Raiders and Crusade have great third acts mostly because Indiana Jones is not just uncovering cultural relics, he is showing that there's a divine factor when defeating Nazis.

 

Plus the ending of Crusade when Indy goes through the dangerous puzzle-traps with his dying father guiding him outside of earshot and Indy finds the ancient knight protecting Jesus' cup (You have chosen wisely). I find that stuff relevant to my struggles through life.

 

Alot more relevant then alien skulls, anyway.

The main complaint I heard about KOTCS was the fact aliens just wasn't plausible enough for an Indiana Jones film lol. At least you have good reason.

[Hatebox]

As always, RLM was right: one of the big reasons Indy 4 sucks is that Indy doesn't casually murder people.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Untitled Hatebox Project

[Thegun]

Since when are there aliens in KOTCS?  They go out of their way several times to say they aren't aliens.  I find it interesting that the overall message of part 4 is "Knowledge is power" doesn't fit in with Indy.  That's Indy to the core.

 

I loved the 4th, fit in perfect with the era of filmmaking.  But I loved Daranbout's script.  Anyone ever read it.  It's the one both Spielberg and Ford loved, but got vetoed by Lucas.  

 

4 is as ridiculous as TOD, but doesn't get nearly as much flack because it was done with practical effects.  TOD is a fantastic film though.

 

As for Star Wars, the science of explaining the force never bothered me.  It was the boring political subplots that brought them down.

[The Panda]

Hippies

Indiana Jones and the Search For Gandalf's Mystic Pipe