How HV sales used to turn big box office hits into massive box office GIANTS

[The Futurist]

Frozen....man oh man.

I want to see Dvd numbers from ten years ago or better vhs tapes in the mid 90 s to see how " big" Frozen really is (not).

How many copies The Lion King sold in the mid 90 s, somebody has that intel ?

In the mid 2000's, how many copies of Shrek 2 were sold ?

Also, the First Hunger Games sold 13 m + and Catching Fire "only" 6,5m... Same bo run but half the video market sales. Weird.

Edited March 11, 2015 by A Grey Future

[Plain Old Tele]

Also, the First Hunger Games sold 13 m + and Catching Fire "only" 6,5m... Same bo run but half the video market sales. Weird.

 

Seems like that's a combination of two things: THG had more casual buyers, and the HV market continues to generally tank.

[terrestrial]

I want to see Dvd numbers from ten years ago or better vhs tapes in the mid 90 s to see how " big" Frozen really is (not).

How many copies The Lion King sold in the mid 90 s, somedy has that intel ?

Also, the First Hunger Games sold 13 m + and Catching Fire "only" 6,5m... Same bo run but half the video market sales. Weird.

 

4 probable reasons:

 

1. different length of time in release,

2, A lot of people only jump into the movie series later on. So the people who wanted to see part 2 might have seen it in the cinema, not all buy, but to catch up =  discs.one got a push before the next one was released

3. general trend. Those lists do not include VOD,... digital delivery (and no rental too)

4, people who watched part 1 with friends, but the friends didn't like it might have missed part 2 in the cinema or didn't re-watch it 'enogh', bought the dics to feed the need

Edited March 13, 2015 by terrestrial

[The Futurist]

Huh, it looks like someone actually has a decent idea of what a movie P&L looks like.

Damn 100 in participations. Singer and Jackman (and Marvel) gettin PAID.

I am pretty sure CAA ( the most powerful talent agency in Hollywood) negociated something for Jlaw. She was s big as Hugh on the posters.

[The Futurist]

Those Deadline numbers throw at the toilet every assumptions we make about movie profitability.

Given those sheets, I really wonder how Warner and Legendary made a profit with Pacific Rim, same for Man of Steel, a VERY expensive movie that failed to reach 700 m WW.

[The Futurist]

Found a article saying Finding Nemo is the biggest selling dvd of all,time with 40 m copies.

[Plain Old Tele]

Those Deadline numbers throw at the toilet every assumptions we make about movie profitability.

Given those sheets, I really wonder how Warner and Legendary made a profit with Pacific Rim, same for Man of Steel, a VERY expensive movie that failed to reach 700 m WW.

 

We have the numbers on MAN OF STEEL... Deadline did the same thing last year.

 

MOS did $52.7m net.

 

Grosses:

Domestic - 291

Overseas - 313.56

China - 63.44

 

Domestic rental - 148.4

Overseas rental - 123.6

China rental - 15.7

Domestic HV - 119.79

Overseas HV - 93.2

Domestic TV - 66.56

Overseas TV - 69.6

Other - 25

 

Costs

Prod budget - 258

Domestic releasing - 80

Overseas releasing - 69

Domestic HV - 31.9

Overseas HV - 34.5

Interest - 11.6

Residuals - 27.25

Participations - 57.95

Overhead - 38.7

Edited March 11, 2015 by Telemachos

[terrestrial]

Pacific Rim? I wasn't aware people thinking it was breaking even.

 

Men of Steel had 'breaking news' high merchandise contracts pre-release

[The Futurist]

We have the numbers on MAN OF STEEL... Deadline did the same thing last year.

 

MOS did $52.7m net.

 

Grosses:

Domestic - 291

Overseas - 313.56

China - 63.44

 

Domestic rental - 148.4

Overseas rental - 123.6

China rental - 15.7

Domestic HV - 119.79

Overseas HV - 93.2

Domestic TV - 66.56

Overseas TV - 69.6

Other - 25

 

Costs

Prod budget - 258

Domestic releasing - 80

Overseas releasing - 69

Domestic HV - 31.9

Overseas HV - 34.5

Interest - 11.6

Residuals - 27.25

Participations - 57.95

Overhead - 38.7

It s crazy that all these huge expenses numbers lead to "only" 50 m profit.

What are the differences between interest, residuals, participations and overhead ?

[BadAtGender]

I want to see Dvd numbers from ten years ago or better vhs tapes in the mid 90 s to see how " big" Frozen really is (not).

How many copies The Lion King sold in the mid 90 s, somebody has that intel ?

In the mid 2000's, how many copies of Shrek 2 were sold ?

Also, the First Hunger Games sold 13 m + and Catching Fire "only" 6,5m... Same bo run but half the video market sales. Weird.

 

The Lion King sold over 30m VHS tapes in the US in its first release (1995-1997). I believe worldwide sales topped 80m.

 

I don't know how well the 2003 re-release sold in total, but as a point of comparison its combined DVD and VHS sales were 2 million on the first day. The original release sold 4.5 million tapes in one day. It's likely that total sales for the re-release were near 10m.

 

(More recent releases should be noted on The Numbers.)

 

Shrek 2 sold a combined 33.7m DVD and VHS units in 8 weeks of release, but that's worldwide. (See: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB111749009146946457).

 

Finding Nemo is noted as the best-selling DVD of all time, with over 40m units sold. However, it's unclear whether that's in the US alone or worldwide. It seems likely that Frozen and Avatar would have more than 40m WW sales for DVD and BD combined.

[Plain Old Tele]

It s crazy that all these huge expenses numbers lead to "only" 50 m profit.

What are the differences between interest, residuals, participations and overhead ?

 

Kowhite can correct me if I'm wrong:

 

Interest - paid back to the studio by the production company, based on the total loan they received for the production budget. (So, most of the time, this is the studio paying itself)

 

Residuals - paid to the writers and director (and I believe the assistant directors get a small residual as well). This is not based on total gross, simply the amount of times the movie is shown in a post-theatrical setting (PPV, HV, etc). Since that will increase over time, the total residuals paid out will also increase over time.

 

Participations - any deals brokered between the director/stars/producers/etc and the studio in terms of first gross points, backend, etc.

 

Overhead - Administrative costs of running a production office (furniture, office equipment/supplies, electricity, etc). Since the studio usually has their production company set up on the lot, the studio is again charging themselves a cost.

[BadAtGender]

Also, it's not noted there, but didn't Man of Steel have some pretty defrayed costs due to high profile product placement. All that Sears and IHOP and 7-11 destruction.

[terrestrial]

I am absolute not sure, but I think overhead also includes pre-production costs of earlier tries to get a movie started. Sometimes that can be costs be another studio, producing people, whatever, who held the rights, tried... and gave it away under the condition to get their development costs back in case of...

 

I hope that was correctly/understandable formulated

 

Is there a possibility to ~ copy in excel spreadsheets? I just addes all 2013 details in mine.

[kowhite]

Kowhite can correct me if I'm wrong:

 

Interest - paid back to the studio by the production company, based on the total loan they received for the production budget. (So, most of the time, this is the studio paying itself)

 

Residuals - paid to the writers and director (and I believe the assistant directors get a small residual as well). This is not based on total gross, simply the amount of times the movie is shown in a post-theatrical setting (PPV, HV, etc). Since that will increase over time, the total residuals paid out will also increase over time.

 

Participations - any deals brokered between the director/stars/producers/etc and the studio in terms of first gross points, backend, etc.

 

Overhead - Administrative costs of running a production office (furniture, office equipment/supplies, electricity, etc). Since the studio usually has their production company set up on the lot, the studio is again charging themselves a cost.

Yup, fairly accurate.

I'd expand on residuals...you are correct. Though to specify, residuals are all guild agreements, SAG, DGA, etc...and cover more than just writers and directors. Actors, musicians, and crew...all have residual obligations depending upon which guilds are engaged in the productions. This isn't all just money paid to people though, a lot of it is benefits and such.

[jimisawesome]

In the mid 2000's, how many copies of Shrek 2 were sold ?

Also, the First Hunger Games sold 13 m + and Catching Fire "only" 6,5m... Same bo run but half the video market sales. Weird.

 

 

Shrek 2 was a huge disappointment on DVD.  They produced a ton like 30 million plus copies something crazy for a first run and had like 10 million or something like that returns. 

 

For Hunger Games my guess is the extra BF.  Having an extra day where you are selling the movie dirt cheap helps move units add that to the continue dying of the home video market.

Edited March 12, 2015 by jimisawesome

[jimisawesome]

I'm already filling in an .xls file. I think they plan a bit of an overview when they are finished. Something like that was in the first article, havent even read the next one due to the excel

 

The merchandise detail is a bit more complex I guess.

E.g. Frozen:

Disney gets the money, but not the Disney Movie Studio = the movies. They get only percentages out of the most of the merchandise.

Depends a lot on the details of the contracts.

Really curious to see e.g. MCU,... details.

 

I think Disney (and other studios with parks) is also difficult to calculate, as the movies are a bit of support also for Disneyland... Disney World (not sure how they are called in your region)

Disneyland also supported e.g. GotG via a ~ 5min special clip in a ~ cinema there, usually used for something else. For a long time...

So who gets the percentages? Disneyland for showing it? GotG for the merchandise, Disneyland sales there?

And many other little details

 

Merchandise and Licensing gets its own line in the 10K for Disney.  The last 10k I looked at was I believe the 2013FY could have been 2012 but their merchandise and licensing was 800 million (this is off the top of my head so wide error bars here).  General rule of thumb for merchandise is about 3 to 5 percent of the retail cost goes to the studio. 

[kowhite]

I am absolute not sure, but I think overhead also includes pre-production costs of earlier tries to get a movie started. Sometimes that can be costs be another studio, producing people, whatever, who held the rights, tried... and gave it away under the condition to get their development costs back in case of...

 

I hope that was correctly/understandable formulated

 

Is there a possibility to ~ copy in excel spreadsheets? I just addes all 2013 details in mine.

In my experience, they put those cost in the cost of production. Overhead for the allocated not quite title specific stuff.

[fairweathermoviefan]

I admit that I haven't read the full thread just a couple of pages here and there.  However, I do wonder if there is a correlation between a movie's sequel's OW or overall domestic gross if a  movie is still being listed in the top 40, like Pitch Perfect.  That movie is still selling and it wasn't adapted from a popular book or comic book.  You would think that it would bode well for Pitch Perfect 2, right?

Edited March 12, 2015 by fairweathermoviefan

[kowhite]

I admit that I haven't read the full thread just a couple of pages here and there.  However, I do wonder if there is a correlation between a movie's sequel's OW or overall domestic gross if a  movie is still being listed in the top 40, like Pitch Perfect.  That movie is still selling and it wasn't adapted from a popular book or comic book.  You would think that it would bode well for Pitch Perfect 2, right?

Pitch Perfect 2 is gonna make bank.

I doubt it cost that much.

So...yes?

[terrestrial]

I admit that I haven't read the full thread just a couple of pages here and there.  However, I do wonder if there is a correlation between a movie's sequel's OW or overall domestic gross if a  movie is still being listed in the top 40, like Pitch Perfect.  That movie is still selling and it wasn't adapted from a popular book or comic book.  You would think that it would bode well for Pitch Perfect 2, right?

 

Only as a general thought, not meant explicit about Pitch Perfect:

In my RL observation especially genre movies and very romantic movies.... people have sometimes problems to find someone else to go to a cinema to watch it not alone.

Such kind of movies here / my friends... tend to buy more as a DVD/Blu-Ray than other movies.

And they seem to buy them less often as DVD/Blu-Ray, when they had already seen the movie in a cinema, as not all feel the need to watch either a movie repeatedly or as soon as a DVD.. release again. Quite a lot are willing to wait for the TV release date.

Exceptions: movies they do not expect to be shown via TV or only in a cut to age 16 version