James' Top 50 Of The Decade So Far (It all ends here...)

[Noctis]

I have a feeling the other European posters would disagree with that statement.

Potter and Rings reign supreme in Europe. Assuming anything else is ludicrous.

[Dementeleus]

Really? Show me a single similitude between SW and LOTR OST wise.

 

The very concept of character- and thematic-based motifs was revitalized by Williams' work on SW. So here's a list of leitmotifs from LOTR that are directed influenced by that concept:

 

"The Ring"

"The Shire/Hobbits"

"Barad-Dur/Sauron/Mordor"

"Isengard/Saruman"

"Rivendell/Elrond"

"Lothlorien/Galadriel"

"The Elves" (generally relating more to Lorien)

"The Fellowship"

"The Nazgul"

"Gollum"

"Eowyn"

"Rohan"

"Gondor"

etc

 

There are countless variations of these, and they're interwoven throughout the entire score so simply by listening, you get a sense of the ebb and flow of the story, as certain themes become dominant or give way to others (or are revisited in different keys to give a sense of joy, sadness, melancholy, etc).

 

Having identifiable themes that are directly associated with major characters (and even locations) is the gigantic debt that almost all contemporary scores owe to Williams (and Goldsmith, and from an earlier era, Korngold, Steiner, etc)... and STAR WARS is the juggernaut that popularized and restored this concept to cinema significance.

 

Claiming otherwise -- or just ignoring it -- is like ignoring ILM's groundbreaking VFX work in the 70s and 80s that directly gave rise to the very concept of modern visual effects.

[Kalo]

The very concept of character- and thematic-based motifs was revitalized by Williams' work on SW. So here's a list of leitmotifs from LOTR that are directed influenced by that concept:

 

"The Ring"

"The Shire/Hobbits"

"Barad-Dur/Sauron/Mordor"

"Isengard/Saruman"

"Rivendell/Elrond"

"Lothlorien/Galadriel"

"The Elves" (generally relating more to Lorien)

"The Fellowship"

"The Nazgul"

"Gollum"

"Eowyn"

"Rohan"

"Gondor"

etc

 

There are countless variations of these, and they're interwoven throughout the entire score so simply by listening, you get a sense of the ebb and flow of the story, as certain themes become dominant or give way to others (or are revisited in different keys to give a sense of joy, sadness, melancholy, etc).

 

Having identifiable themes that are directly associated with major characters (and even locations) is the gigantic debt that almost all contemporary scores owe to Williams (and Goldsmith, and from an earlier era, Korngold, Steiner, etc)... and STAR WARS is the juggernaut that popularized and restored this concept to cinema significance.

 

Claiming otherwise -- or just ignoring it -- is like ignoring ILM's groundbreaking VFX work in the 70s and 80s that directly gave rise to the very concept of modern visual effects.

^ this (all out of likes at the moment, I'd give it 50 if I could.)

Edited February 18, 2015 by Visor shades Kalo

[James]

The very concept of character- and thematic-based motifs was revitalized by Williams' work on SW. So here's a list of leitmotifs from LOTR that are directed influenced by that concept:

 

"The Ring"

"The Shire/Hobbits"

"Barad-Dur/Sauron/Mordor"

"Isengard/Saruman"

"Rivendell/Elrond"

"Lothlorien/Galadriel"

"The Elves" (generally relating more to Lorien)

"The Fellowship"

"The Nazgul"

"Gollum"

"Eowyn"

"Rohan"

"Gondor"

etc

 

There are countless variations of these, and they're interwoven throughout the entire score so simply by listening, you get a sense of the ebb and flow of the story, as certain themes become dominant or give way to others (or are revisited in different keys to give a sense of joy, sadness, melancholy, etc).

 

Having identifiable themes that are directly associated with major characters (and even locations) is the gigantic debt that almost all contemporary scores owe to Williams (and Goldsmith, and from an earlier era, Korngold, Steiner, etc)... and STAR WARS is the juggernaut that popularized and restored this concept to cinema significance.

 

Claiming otherwise -- or just ignoring it -- is like ignoring ILM's groundbreaking VFX work in the 70s and 80s that directly gave rise to the very concept of modern visual effects.

But that is very general thing. Of course dark moments will have dark pieces of soundtrack and lighthearted moments will have lighthearted ones. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. 

 

Did Zimmer ever affirmed he was influenced by the SW soundtrack on his work? Because tonally they are very very different. And you basically quoted the whole LOTR OST.

 

I have no clue what ILM is, but I guess it's important.

[Ethan Hunt]

James did you reverse the numbering for Dracula Untold and Interstellar?

[pepsa]

Yes, I think John Williams' SW score is better than all those films scores. It is okay of you disagree, but like Tele said, those scores wouldn't be what they are without the influence of Williams' SW score.

 

I don't know, LOTR had the best score for a movie (for me tought) I don't know, the music in LOTR is the best part, it's just straight on epic. In star wars you have those moments, but not always.

[James]

26. Salt (2010)

 

 

This Angelina Jolie vehicle is one of the best spy themed movies ever made. Everything is done the way it should be: a badass character, an entertaining story, and a lot of impressive fight scenes + Jolie.

I am honestly suprised at the amount of hate this gets. Just goes to show people like to criticise just for the sake of opening their mouths.

 

Grade: 85/100

 

 

25. Skyfall (2012)

 

 

This is the second best James Bond film ever made, behind only 'Quantum of Solace'. Craig is a the best Bond. It had the best Bond theme ever (Adele really nailed it). The villain was ok. Story wise and direction wise I have nothing to add.

 

 

Grade: 85/100

Edited February 18, 2015 by 69 Shades of James

[Dementeleus]

But that is very general thing. Of course dark moments will have dark pieces of soundtrack and lighthearted moments will have lighthearted ones. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. 

 

Did Zimmer ever affirmed he was influenced by the SW soundtrack on his work? Because tonally they are very very different. And you basically quoted the whole LOTR OST.

 

I have no clue what ILM is, but I guess it's important.

 

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. There are motifs -- brief orchestral arrangements used very specifically for character beats and moments, or location beats or moments, that are used to emphasize an aspect of that moment in the story. When Frodo does something heroic, it's not merely triumphant music, or even something like the Fellowship music.... it's Frodo's motif that plays. It's not just saying happy music plays during happy moments and action-y music plays during action moments.

 

 

Did Zimmer ever affirmed he was influenced by the SW soundtrack on his work? Because tonally they are very very different. And you basically quoted the whole LOTR OST.

 

 

The tonality of the music is irrelevant. The concept driving the specific beats is the legacy. The fact that you have a Jack Sparrow theme, an Elizabeth/Will theme, a Davy Jones theme, all this stems from the conceptual framework of music Williams popularized (most specifically with Star Wars). I quoted all of LOTR because the entire score is driven by this thematic concept. This is not a bad thing. It's not in any way minimizing what Shore did. What you're doing is sort of like talking about how cool Einstein was but refusing to acknowledge what this guy Newton came up with.

 

 

I have no clue what ILM is, but I guess it's important.

 

 

Not sure if serious?

 

(ILM is the visual effects company created by Lucas specifically to make effects for Star Wars. It's probably one of the most famous institutions/organizations in movie history, and they're relevant to this day, doing fantastic work on most (if not all) of your favorite movies).

[pepsa]

I just want to say, you can't say that starwars was the start point because john williams also took his inspiration from other music parts, true so you can say all modern history music is inspired by the music they played 8000 years ago... Every music form we have today was inspired by the music of the past.

[Dementeleus]

I just want to say, you can't say that starwars was the start point because john williams also took his inspiration from other music parts, true so you can say all modern history music is inspired by the music they played 8000 years ago... Every music form we have today was inspired by the music of the past.

 

I've repeatedly said that Williams was of course inspired by the work Korngold and Steiner did in the 30s -- they were the trailblazers of character-based motifs in movie scores. And the concept was popularized in opera by Wagner (among others). To broaden it out over 8000 years is of course true, yet so general as to be meaningless.

 

I'm not quite sure why people are so resistant to this concept.

[James]

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. There are motifs -- brief orchestral arrangements used very specifically for character beats and moments, or location beats or moments, that are used to emphasize an aspect of that moment in the story. When Frodo does something heroic, it's not merely triumphant music, or even something like the Fellowship music.... it's Frodo's motif that plays. It's not just saying happy music plays during happy moments and action-y music plays during action moments.

 

 

 

 

The tonality of the music is irrelevant. The concept driving the specific beats is the legacy. The fact that you have a Jack Sparrow theme, an Elizabeth/Will theme, a Davy Jones theme, all this stems from the conceptual framework of music Williams popularized (most specifically with Star Wars). I quoted all of LOTR because the entire score is driven by this thematic concept. This is not a bad thing. It's not in any way minimizing what Shore did. What you're doing is sort of like talking about how cool Einstein was but refusing to acknowledge what this guy Newton came up with.

 

 

 

 

Not sure if serious?

 

(ILM is the visual effects company created by Lucas specifically to make effects for Star Wars. It's probably one of the most famous institutions/organizations in movie history, and they're relevant to this day, doing fantastic work on most (if not all) of your favorite movies).

That is interesting aboul ILM. The only company I knew about was WETA. 

 

And I understand that the fact every character has to have a theme was inspired by Williams work on SW. But that has nothing to do whatsoever with the music itself and it doesn't make the SW soundtrack better than any other soundtrack quality wise. 

[RobinHood26]

So James doesn't like movies, got it. 

[Dark Jedi Master 007]

I don't think he is talented in the slightest. He certainly has a distinct style - you can watch 5 minutes of a Michael Bay movie and you know it's a Michael Bay movie - but I that doesn't make his style any good. He even describes it himself as "fucking the frame".

Look at the shots in those videos; it takes a lot of talent to create them and fill them up the way he does. However, I agree that his style can be limited (the video's creator agrees too) and combined with bad stories, it can sink his films (Transformers 2 + 3).

[Dark Jedi Master 007]

 

 

And I understand that the fact every character has to have a theme was inspired by Williams work on SW. But that has nothing to do whatsoever with the music itself and it doesn't make the SW soundtrack better than any other soundtrack quality wise. 

But this isn't the only thing you were talking about before. You were also talking about Williams' legacy, what he was known for, and why he is popular. IDK why he is popular worldwide (it could very well be for the Potter films) but the guy's legacy comes from his work in the 70's on Jaws and Star Wars. All of Tele's discussion on music themes was trying to explain why that's where his legacy comes from.

[James]

So James doesn't like movies, got it. 

Did I mention that the Jurassic Park movies are really really boring?  Thank God for Godzilla. Jurassic World looks better though.

[4815162342]

But that is very general thing. Of course dark moments will have dark pieces of soundtrack and lighthearted moments will have lighthearted ones. It's ridiculous to think otherwise.

You completely misunderstood what Tele was saying. It isn't about dark vs. light, but the concept of associating specific pieces of music with characters or places. For 30+ years before Williams that was essentially nonexistent. Williams revolutionized the concept of film motifs and musical associations.

You treating it as obvious only underscores how big a shift it was done by Williams 40 years ago.

Edited February 18, 2015 by 4815162342

[The Futurist]

Even if you discount the concepts Tele is talking about, the Star Wars score is the most iconic score of all time.
There is no score that comes even close to the lasting impact it had on movie goers and film composers.
The scary thing about the Star Wars score is that there is not a cue or melody that isn t memorable or humable, it s just fantastic all the way through.
It has always been my theory that Spielberg/ Lucas movies wouldn t have had the same impact without Williams' scores.

The guy IS the genius of film scoring, there s no other composers that has written as many memorable and iconic themes and melodies.

Hans Zimmer on Scoring Man of Steel : " trying to copy what Williams did on the first Superman Movie, well there s no need, it s like saying you are gonna write the new Beethoven s ninth symphony ( or fifth I am not sure) it s impossible".

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention that Williams is also the father of superhero film scoring. Ask the question to any film composer, when they score a superhero movie, what is the score they want to aspire to, what is their favourite superhero movie score, they all have the same answer : Williams ´Superman score.

Edited February 18, 2015 by A Grey Future

[Kalo]

Did I mention that the Jurassic Park movies are really really boring?  Thank God for Godzilla. Jurassic World looks better though.

do you like anything that was released before 2000?

[James]

do you like anything that was released before 2000?

Yep: Home Alone 1,2 are my favourite comedies all time, I LOVE The Addams Family (both movies), Independence Day, The Matrix, Titanic and the animation before 2000 is muuuuuuch better than what we get now.

[Kalo]

Yep: Home Alone 1,2 are my favourite comedies all time, I LOVE The Addams Family (both movies), Independence Day, The Matrix, Titanic and the animation before 2000 is muuuuuuch better than what we get now.

The Home alone movies are good, my mom used to cut my hair like Macaulay Culkin when I was little actually love Matrix, Titanic is good. I remember liking one of the Addams family films.. it's been forever since I've seen it though. 

Edited February 18, 2015 by Visor shades Kalo