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PDC1987

Diversity and Gender Representation in Movies

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I'm focusing merely on the underlying reasons behind casting decisions. Keep politics out of it. That's all I'm saying. I am intrigued by the idea of Idris Elba as a Bond but do it because Idris is an awesome character. My "should always be..." comments are because there's 0% chance that diverging from those motifs was a purely artistic decision, IMO.

Really? You think Mike B Jordan didn't get the Human Torch because he's an incredible talent? That's an artistic decision. Elba is one of the best actors working today, that's an artistic decision. Denzel Washington is one of the best actors of all-time- you're telling me it's not a smart artistic decision to cast him as, say, Lex Luthor, or something? 

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Really? You think Mike B Jordan didn't get the Human Torch because he's an incredible talent? That's an artistic decision. Elba is one of the best actors working today, that's an artistic decision. Denzel Washington is one of the best actors of all-time- you're telling me it's not a smart artistic decision to cast him as, say, Lex Luthor, or something? 

 

i have no idea.

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I'm focusing merely on the underlying reasons behind casting decisions. Keep politics out of it. That's all I'm saying. I am intrigued by the idea of Idris Elba as a Bond but do it because Idris is an awesome character. My "should always be..." comments are because there's 0% chance that diverging from those motifs was a purely artistic decision, IMO.

 

I can believe that it might not be a 100% artistic decision and be at least in part motivated by politics, but Hollywood has been making bad decisions for the wrong reasons since its infancy, so I'd say making a good decision for slightly wrong reasons still counts as progress. 

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I think it's a good thing to cast for "political" reasons. It doesn't change the film itself in any way, but still improves the effect it has on the audience. Better representation from different groups is a great thing.

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I can believe that it might not be a 100% artistic decision and be at least in part motivated by politics, but Hollywood has been making bad decisions for the wrong reasons since its infancy, so I'd say making a good decision for slightly wrong reasons still counts as progress. 

 

It's not a good decision if it's patronizing (casting someone who is fill-in-the-blank) but how I view it (patronizing) and how you might view it (good thing/progressive) is subjective. A matter of opinion.

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Every hollywood movie is sexist. Fast, Transformers, Man Of Steel is the first superman movie to show him shirtless, why? For story? No because they want too.

Why is Channing Tatum Shirtless half of Jupitar Acseding? Because he's a sexy guy and a celebrity.

It's the movies!!!! Seeing sexy people look sexy is kinda a given.

That s like the first purpose of movies since les freres lumieres.

Our brains crave beauty, whether you are male or female.

Teenage girls love one direction for their incredible music, everybody knows that.

And the male gaze gets a bad rep by moralists these days.

I can t imagine the number of " think pieces" you d have if you would have made Magic Mike with genders reversed, female being the strippers showing their bewbs and cute round asses.

But female date nights to see Magic Mike is ok and Tatum s body is not objectified, noooooooooo.

Double standard.gotta love it.

Edited by The Futurist
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That s like the first purpose of movies since les freres lumieres.

Our brains crave beauty, whether you are male or female.

Teenage girls love one direction for their incredible music, everybody knows that.

And the male gaze gets a bad rep by moralists these days.

I can t imagine the number of " think pieces" you d have if you would have made Magic Mike with genders reversed, female being the strippers showing their bewbs and cute round asses.

But female date nights to see Magic Mike is ok and Tatum s body is not objectified, noooooooooo.

Double standard.gotta love it.

We already have had a gender-reversed Magic Mike (Showgirls), and it was one of the worst movies ever made.

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We already have had a gender-reversed Magic Mike (Showgirls), and it was one of the worst movies ever made.

Don't forget Striptease and countless B/Z sexploitation flicks of the past decades. In fact, female nudity for the sake of titillating is the norm. Magic Mike is just one of the few outliers so talking "double standard" is skewed like "boo women objectify men's body tooooo" when the standard has been objectifying women's bodies since cinema's inception.

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Your post seems ignorant of one key thing, with quotes like "James Bond should always be male" and "Superman should always be white". It's possible to change an unimportant characteristic without doing it for diversity's sake. I think it'd be cool to have a female James Bond, not because it's "filling quotas", but because it would give an interesting and fresh perspective on a tired character.

 

What if the perfect actor for Superman is black?

 

There's a middle ground that you appear to be failing to see.

James Bond isn't a tired character though, changing his gender is ridiculous, it's not sexist to say men are physically stronger than women so having a male to play an iconic badass brute of a spy just makes sense. If Hollywood want diversity then they should create new original roles, no point in fixing what isn't broken.

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I think they do. People enjoy looking at good looking people. Human are meant for lust. Look at every big blockbuster movie good looking actors and actress.

I think average looking great actors attract more moviegoers than a good looking poor actor, hence why people like Liam Hemsworth and Taylor Lautner aren't draws yet people like Shia Labuf are (well was). Charisma is usually the key to an actors popularity. Edited by jessie
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I think average looking great actors attract more moviegoers than a good looking poor actor, hence why people like Liam Hemsworth and Taylor Lautner aren't draws yet people like Shia Labuf are (well was). Charisma is usually the key to an actors popularity.

 

Of course they do, Tom Hanks for example is not really known for his looks, but he is a fantastic actor so people see stuff he is in. 

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We already have had a gender-reversed Magic Mike (Showgirls), and it was one of the worst movies ever made.

 

Not because it showed naked men though, it was just an awful movie. besides wasn't showgirls considered pretty awful too?  

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Not because it showed naked men though, it was just an awful movie. besides wasn't showgirls considered pretty awful too?  

Showgirls is considered one of the worst films ever, and rightfully so.

 

Magic Mike, on the other hand, was a really good movie. Its unquestionably male perspective made for an interesting examination of why these men end up getting drawn to stripping, unlike Showgirls, which was complete and total trash with zero redeeming qualities of any kind.

Edited by filmlover
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The same people who say shirtless guys in Magic Mike is proof that Hollywood isn't sexist are the same types of people that say "But why don't we talk about when a black cop kills a white kid?!?!" It's just so fucking moronic. It's not a historical culture pattern, it's a random anomaly. Coincidentally, the same people who go out of their way to defend cops have the same type of worldview as those "Hollywood isn't sexist" gang. 

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The same people who say shirtless guys in Magic Mike is proof that Hollywood isn't sexist are the same types of people that say "But why don't we talk about when a black cop kills a white kid?!?!" It's just so fucking moronic. It's not a historical culture pattern, it's a random anomaly. Coincidentally, the same people who go out of their way to defend cops have the same type of worldview as those "Hollywood isn't sexist" gang. 

 

 

So defending cops makes you sexist? 

 

I suggest you stop going from silly to full retard  :P

 

 

Of course Hollywood is sexist as it sells. It is just that it has to be done with some grace or else it becomes a tad repulsive. For example I am sure everyone loved the nice views in fast 7 however they were not repulsive. 

 

No matter the actor in the movie old or fat or nerdy or a stud, the female co-star is always the fair wide eyed beauty and this the norm  in like almost every industry in the world.  

 

I like to see some diversity, but this is true in the trashiest of films to the Oscar award films and is not a issue that keeps me awake at night.

 

 

Imo the bigger issue is racial diversity in film. 

Edited by Lordmandeep
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So defending cops makes you sexist? 

 

I suggest you stop going from silly to full retard  :P

 

 

Of course Hollywood is sexist as it sells. It is just that it has to be done with some grace or else it becomes a tad repulsive.

 

No matter the actor in the movie old or fat or nerdy or a stud, the female co-star is always the fair wide eyed beauty and this the norm  in like almost every industry in the world.  

Not at all, it's just the same fucked-up, close-minded type of worldview. It's not just a matter of the looks- it's a matter of the roles. There's nothing wrong with casting a beautiful actress as long as she is given something to do in terms of character and plot that isn't just her being the pretty foil to the audience surrogate.

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Not at all, it's just the same fucked-up, close-minded type of worldview. It's not just a matter of the looks- it's a matter of the roles. There's nothing wrong with casting a beautiful actress as long as she is given something to do in terms of character and plot that isn't just her being the pretty foil to the audience surrogate.

 

 

Unlike Anne Hathaway in Interstellar  :ph34r:

 

 

SHOT FIRED  :ph34r:

 

 

My point is I do not see a actual progression on this issue, things are regressing on that front. In many industries around the world become more Hollywoodish, the Female co-star for example in Bollywood is nothing more then eye candy for item numbers and dances. 

Edited by Lordmandeep
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Totally, actually. I love Nolan movies but dude's fucking terrible at writing female roles.

 

To be honest, the male actors all hit it out of the park in his films.

 

Apart from Catwoman and Ellen page, I have not been impressed really. 

 

 

Its quite funny in Bollywood many films can be terrible but become famous due to item number songs. Pretty much a famous actress guest stars, or the main female actress and just dances to a sexy dance number.

 

 

Is it sexist, but to be honest its one part I never fast forward when watching those films, usually the highlight .  :lol:

Edited by Lordmandeep
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Don't forget Striptease and countless B/Z sexploitation flicks of the past decades. In fact, female nudity for the sake of titillating is the norm. Magic Mike is just one of the few outliers so talking "double standard" is skewed like "boo women objectify men's body tooooo" when the standard has been objectifying women's bodies since cinema's inception.

Male gaze is frown upon. Men are pervs who only think about sex, tits and ass.

Woman gaze is not. Women are pure, virgin, harmless creatures who also think about sex, six packs torsos and butts.

Hence movies like Magic Mike are seen as funny and harmless and Showgirls and striptease are sleazy and vulgar.

Male objectification : cool,sexy,funny.

Female objectfication : not cool, porn, remnants of the ancient deviant machist world. Bad. To condemn.

Edited by The Futurist
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