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JURASSIC WORLD: FALLEN KINGDOM | 22 JUN 2018 | Universal | J.A. Bayona to direct | The Park is Closed | NOT THE FRANCHISE WARS THREAD

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17 minutes ago, AndyK said:

Which bit ?

 

I mean, dude made a lot of faulty assumptions overall but to basically nip the whole thing in the bud, he's claiming that Earth's atmosphere was roughly 560x denser in the Jurassic than it is today. Not really a plausible scenario for a variety of reasons. He's basically making a ludicrous claim with zero evidence other than "it's the only thing that I think makes sense," even though it really doesn't.

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2 minutes ago, aabattery said:

 

I mean, dude made a lot of faulty assumptions overall but to basically nip the whole thing in the bud, he's claiming that Earth's atmosphere was roughly 560x denser in the Jurassic than it is today. Not really a plausible scenario for a variety of reasons. He's basically making a ludicrous claim with zero evidence other than "it's the only thing that I think makes sense."

Correct, but the fact remains, the current theories are equally dumb, these giant sauropods could not exist in this world as it is now, but there's the bones to prove they did.......so............

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Just now, AndyK said:

Correct, but the fact remains, the current theories are equally dumb, these giant sauropods could not exist in this world as it is now, but there's the bones to prove they did.......so............

 

Why do you think that sauropods could not exist in the world as it is now?

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Looking around, found someone (who is actually, y'know, qualified) who debunked Esker's site much better than I could. Michael Habib, who is an actual paleontologist at USC, wrote this on his own blog:

 

Spoiler

Ah, yes, David Esker's site. To be frank, David has no idea what he is doing. I actually tried to chat with him about it at one point, but he turns out to be rather hard to talk to (he's remarkably aggressive and abrasive). He and I had a little "debate" on the NatGeo news site at one point.

It would take forever to debunk everything in that website, because practically everything on it is inaccurate, but here are a few highlights:

1) Esker tries to get the mass of an azhdarchid pterosaur by isometrically scaling a swan. This is nowhere close to a good shape match (swans have short wings and large torsos), and yields a super-massive pterosaur.

2) He tries to derive available power by literally calculating in terms of horse masses and assuming that "horse power" is literally the power of one equid. Actually, a horsepower is 745.7 watts, and there are already good estimates of vertebrate muscle power production in the literature. The estimates of available power on that site are completely nonsensical (for example, the anaerobic muscle of quail produces about 390 Watts/kg. So just two kg of quail grade muscle would be more power than 1 horsepower).

3) It should be apparent that the estimates aren't working when the results for living species don't make sense. He gets marginal results for a few living animals that are nowhere near marginal flyers, and tries to play it off with things like "they don't like to fly in the rain" and other such nonsense. That ignores the fact that a flying animal with only 1.1 to 1.2 times the power output required to fly would be unable to climb in altitude effectively. The reality, of course, is that his equations just aren't correct. If you have a particular one in mind I'm happy to show you where the derivation failed.

4) He doesn't understand launch at all. It is not wing driven in large vertebrate flyers.

5) Most troubling, Esker insists that before he derived these critical equations, educators did not know how flight worked. This is hubris of the highest caliber. Not only are his equations incorrect in many places, but the correct equations for these same problems were derived back in the 1920's - that many individuals cannot explain flight mechanics effectively has nothing to do with a fundamental lack of knowledge among aerodynamicists.

6) His solution is an atmosphere 3/4 the density of water. There are so many things wrong with this it boggles my mind. Not the least that it would kill most animal life (and most of the plants, too). Plus it'd show up in the geological record big time (and doesn't).

 

http://h2vp.blogspot.co.nz/2012/04/no-dinosaurs-were-not-aquatic.html

 

Same link also has some stuff on sauropods and how they actually can exist.

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1 hour ago, aabattery said:

 

Why do you think that sauropods could not exist in the world as it is now?

Because they don't, other wise they would. Bio diversity is progressive not regressive.

 

Blue whales grow to the size they do because the environment supports it, its not supportable outside of the oceans.

Edited by AndyK
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6 hours ago, AndyK said:

Because they don't, other wise they would. Bio diversity is progressive not regressive.

 

Blue whales grow to the size they do because the environment supports it, its not supportable outside of the oceans.

 

Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. 

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35 minutes ago, John Marston said:

While I'm looking forward to this. That guy with the glasses is reminding a lot off the roommate in Transformers 2, which is not a good thing 

I feel the same way, but annoying kid companions are kind of a trademark for the franchise.

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