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CJohn

Sicario (2015)

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I think this is the best film of the year so far....after Jurassic World.  I realize JW doesn't count for the academy so that makes this the best.  This had me hooked right from the beginning.  Superb in every way.

 

10/10

Edited by baumer
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I think this is the best film of the year so far....after Jurassic World.  I realize JW doesn't count for the academy so that makes this the best.  This had me hooked right from the beginning.  Superb in every way.

 

10/10

  

Pretty bad movie. Brolin and Del Toro are gods, and kudos to Villineuve for letting them chew scenery, otherwise this is a simple, vaguely irresponsible depiction of a nuanced issue that allowed for nothing interesting plot or character wise. Kept waiting for it to shift gears and never did. Would've prefered a film about the Mexican cop or something anthology based.

Blunt is a wonderful actor but she is clobbered in this movie. Hard to stomach a woman at the center who listens to sexist crap all day and simutaneously remains passive for her whole story.

All is well in the world once more.

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The part of the movie I kept waiting for was the reveal about Del Toro's character.  And when they did, it just hit me like a brick to the face.  I knew it would be something bad that made him want to do what he does, but when they say that the Mexican drug lord cut off his wife's head and threw his daughter into a vat of acid, well, my sympathies went out to him.  Does he work for the Mexican cartel, is he CIA?  The answers are very vague and no one really knows.  I don't even think Brolin's character knows who he truly works for.  They just need each other.  And Del Toro of course turns out to be the most nuanced and interesting shade of grey character for sure.  

 

If you haven't seen this film, stop reading right now.

 

 

How many times in film do you see a somewhat good guy character do something so evil like kill a man's family in front of his eyes?  When this part happened, I actually gasped out loud.  I knew he had to do it as payback, but it was shocking nonetheless.

 

Sicario is just brilliant on every level.  It's certainly top three of the year for me.

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I thought they made it clear he was working for the Medellin cartel. But regardless, th fact that the CIA was helping a cartel was a great gut-punch, as was the really dark reveal for Del Toro's character. We as the audience were so used to movie convention and the fact he'd been ostensibly a "good guy" helping her out that his ruthlessness (toward everyone) was very effective.

Edited by Telemachos
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I know what Brolin says, but I thought they kept it fairly ambiguous.  Kate thinks he's working for the Columbian cartel, Brolin hints that he is working for the CIA but never actually says that he is.  I just think Del Toro's character is perfectly mysterious.  Sure he saved Kate from maybe rape or death, but he only did it because they used her as bait and because she reminded him of his daughter.  Then he kills a bunch of bad guys, but not before putting a bullet in Kate's shoulder and then at the end, threatens her with death if she doesn't sign what she has to sign.  To me, he was ambiguous.

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I guess ambiguous in terms of what? He's sort of transcended any concept of right or wrong... he simply exists to exact retribution upon those who killed his family. He doesn't care about anything else -- he's not sociopathic enough to kill anyone he wants, even if they don't oppose his goals, but obviously he doesn't care about morals either, since he's willing to kill completely innocent people to serve his ends.

In terms of who he's working for, I think both are true: he's working for both the Colombians and the CIA because they're allies in this cause.

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He is not morally ambiguous. He's not "somewhat good guy". He is killing tons of people throughout the film and ignoring the law - and then he shoots some kids. Sorry but if you murder a child and you don't kill yourself then I cannot understand the character on any level.

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^^ Yes, the whole point is that in this war, morality is dead. In terms of the Sicario, IMO the earlier discussion was more referring to his character within the context of action/thriller dramas. We're used to having a "good guy" kill a bunch of bad guys, or even a "good guy" who maybe skirts the rules and does some (minor) bad stuff like ignore rules or authority, but the movie emphatically showed how completely it dismisses that standard movie trope in favor of the bleak reality of the War on Drugs: there are few "good guys" and the idealists are either crushed or tossed aside when they're no longer useful.

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Well framed through different lenses, brutality and murder has been excused for countless "good guys" in movies because of their sympathetic backgrounds and personal tragedy. I think that's where baumer is coming from. But the fact that the lines of "good" and "bad" aren't just rendered moot, but completely obliterated, is sorta the whole point of this movie. 

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The film pretty much tells us that Del Toro used to be exactly like Kate, an idealistic Mexican prosecutor hoping to make a difference and use the law for good.

 

The murder of his family broke him and he faced the same choice he tells Kate she has at the end: Leave the conflict behind and find a job and a home in a place that respects the ideas of law and morality, or embrace the world for what it is and use it to carve out the worst cancers by any means necessary.

 

The film decides to keep it ambiguous what choice Kate will eventually make. It is arguable that she declines to shoot Del Toro at the end because she doesn't have the "stomach" for murder and wants to stay noble, good, and pure. It is also arguable that she declines to shoot Del Toro because she comes to the realization that he is (at least in part) right.

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^^ Or something even more pragmatic: that it was doubtful she'd have a killing shot at that range (it wasn't super far but she also only had a handgun), and regardless of whether she killed him or not, she'd face persecution and the likely end to her career.

 

True, though given the undercurrents of the scene I think it was more on an emotional and visceral though process as opposed to her running down all the ramifications of her actions in her head.

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