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FINDING DORY | 542.3 M overseas ● 1028.6 M worldwide

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27 minutes ago, Fullbuster said:

 

You're always complaining even when there is no reason to..If you're like that IRL then OMG!

 

But what he's saying isn't wrong, you are the one behaving as if FD's average numbers are something amazing and far more than expected, even though it is a sequel to a very successful film that is making less than plenty of animated films from the last few years. If FD is amazing than what are we supposed to call IO?

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Finding Dory is now at 485m OS. Pets is at 456m OS.

One is a sequel and the other is an original film. So Pets had low expectations and exceeded them, and Dory had very high expectations and didn't match them.

But regardless of expectations, Dory was crazy huge in the US and that really helped it, and so was Pets (as an original film which still made like 120m less than Dory domestically).

So in the end DOM really helped both films achieve good results.

Edited by MinaTakla
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23 minutes ago, Tower said:

 

But what he's saying isn't wrong, you are the one behaving as if FD's average numbers are something amazing and far more than expected, even though it is a sequel to a very successful film that is making less than plenty of animated films from the last few years. If FD is amazing than what are we supposed to call IO?

 

That's because, unlike you guys, I take the whole market into account.

Nemo was exceptional in terms of animation in 2003 while Dory is an animated movie among others.

Italy didn't grow since 2003 but there are more movies.

There are less young people now in Italy and more old people so Dory that skews younger is disadvantaged while Inside Out was appealing to a larger audience so it obviously helped.

 

Your problem guys is that you're a bit lazy and don't analyze the market conditions as a whole so your conclusions can sometimes be flawed.

 

Dory is not doing incredibly well but it's still doing well and that's quite satisfying. I expected at least $15m in Italy and it will pass them so of course that's good :)

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20 minutes ago, Fullbuster said:

 

That's because, unlike you guys, I take the whole market into account.

Nemo was exceptional in terms of animation in 2003 while Dory is an animated movie among others.

Italy didn't grow since 2003 but there are more movies.

There are less young people now in Italy and more old people so Dory that skews younger is disadvantaged while Inside Out was appealing to a larger audience so it obviously helped.

 

Your problem guys is that you're a bit lazy and don't analyze the market conditions as a whole so your conclusions can sometimes be flawed.

 

Dory is not doing incredibly well but it's still doing well and that's quite satisfying. I expected at least $15m in Italy and it will pass them so of course that's good :)

You aren't looking at market conditions, you are looking at demographics and inferring from them what you think the market conditions should be. When looking at Finding I'm not just comparing it to Nemo, but to more recent animated films.

You speak of competition and how there are more animated films now, but you are taking away from Finding Nemos success. Nemo was huge and easily beat the other animated films from the era that had similar competition.

I don't know where you get this idea that Inside Out is so much more adult skewing, do you think the 484M it made domestically is just from Children? At the end of the day Dory is losing to IO which had to release soon after Minions, which was another animated film which also beat Dory.

 

None of this is to say that Dory is some flop, but the result is average, so if you use words such as fantastic to describe its Italian run then expect people to disagree.

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32 minutes ago, Fullbuster said:

 

There are less young people now in Italy and more old people so Dory that skews younger is disadvantaged while Inside Out was appealing to a larger audience so it obviously helped.

 

2poo7s4.png

 

2629shh.png

2003: age 0-14 8,147M

2015: age 0-14 8,382M (+235K)

 

Your problem guy is that you're a bit lazy and don't analyze know the market conditions

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51 minutes ago, edroger3 said:

2poo7s4.png

 

2629shh.png

2003: age 0-14 8,147M

2015: age 0-14 8,382M (+235K)

 

Your problem guy is that you're a bit lazy and don't analyze know the market conditions

 

Again, you don't analyze in depth.

More young people? But do you know that's only because of recent immigration and that many of these young came from a foreign country with their parents and so don't speak Italian? They won't go in cinemas to watch movies in a language they don't understand. And most immigrants in Italy are poor or unemployed so not much money for movies.

So there are less potential young people in 2003 to 2015 for movies ;)

Edited by Fullbuster
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I've found figures for total box office revenue for France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the UK dating back to 2003, allowing a comparison of Nemo, IO, and Dory in terms of box office market share for those countries. US + Canada provided as a comparison. Italicized figures are estimates, all figures are in US$ millions:

 

Quote
    Nemo     IO     Dory  
Territory gross market %share gross market %share gross market* %share
US + Canada $339.7 $9,240 3.7% $356.4 $11,129 3.2% $485 $11,300 4.3%
France $64.8 $1,130 5.7% $28.6 $1,480 1.9% $21.9 $1,500 1.5%
Germany $53.9 $964 5.6% $31.6 $1,295 2.4% ? $1,300 ?%
Italy $27.7 $697 4.0% $27.1 $738 3.7% $18 $740 2.4%
Spain $29.5 $725 4.1% $24.0 $636 3.8% $20.0 $640 3.1%
United Kingdom $67.1 $1,214 5.5% $59.4 $1,889 3.1% $55 $1,750 3.1%

*For these estimates, I examined the past few years. France, Germany, Italy, and Spain have been pretty stable in local currency, with the average value of the Euro not changing much from last year. The UK has been growing in local currency, but the value of the pound is down by 10% this year from last. The domestic estimate is from the-numbers.com.

 

So we can see that the domestic gross of Dory is an increase over Nemo's even taking into account the expansion of the North American market, but that Dory has had substantially smaller market share (19% to even 74% less) than Nemo did in the major European markets. I think this is surprising in part because of how big Nemo was (even greater market share in Europe than NA), and also because Dory was such a success domestically. Dory will also finish with a smaller market share than Inside Out in France, Italy, and Spain. (With the UK being about the same, and Germany yet to open.)

Edited by Jason
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On 25/9/2016 at 7:54 PM, Fullbuster said:

 

That's because, unlike you guys, I take the whole market into account.

Nemo was exceptional in terms of animation in 2003 while Dory is an animated movie among others.

Italy didn't grow since 2003 but there are more movies.

There are less young people now in Italy and more old people so Dory that skews younger is disadvantaged while Inside Out was appealing to a larger audience so it obviously helped.

 

Your problem guys is that you're a bit lazy and don't analyze the market conditions as a whole so your conclusions can sometimes be flawed.

 

Dory is not doing incredibly well but it's still doing well and that's quite satisfying. I expected at least $15m in Italy and it will pass them so of course that's good :)

The huge disappointment come exactly from what you said: in Europe (and not just there) Dory became just an average animated film, completely uneventful. In many countries Nemo turned out to be some sort of "thing of the past", and Dory was perceived as an overall unnecessary sequel.

 

But tell me, you great analyser, what are the precise differences in the market that allowed the yellow shit (cit. edroger) and Inside Out to gross 23 and 25 millions respectively (and very close to each other) last year but are preventing Dory to even make 4/5 of them? Children were satisfied after the 5th Ice Age (8M gross)? The yellow shit only attracted monkeys while Inside Out was mainly for adults (take into account that IO's average ticket price is lower than Dory's even when taking inflation into account)? A nuclear holocaust exterminated the youth in the first months of the year?

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13 hours ago, Fullbuster said:

Finding Dory is now the third highest grossing film of 2016 to date worldwide with a global haul of $969.8m, which also makes it the sixth biggest animation of all time.

Overseas, Pixar’s latest swum to $5.3m from its 14 territories for $485.6m. This weekend saw it retain the top spot in Italy for a local tally of $11.7m, ahead of its final international releases in Germany, Austria and Switzerland next weekend.

 

Actuals in Italy 11.3M$ (1,12Meuro Sun - 54%)

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The huge disappointment come exactly from what you said: in Europe (and not just there) Dory became just an average animated film, completely uneventful. In many countries Nemo turned out to be some sort of "thing of the past", and Dory was perceived as an overall unnecessary sequel.

 

But tell me, you great analyser, what are the precise differences in the market that allowed the yellow shit (cit. edroger) and Inside Out to gross 23 and 25 millions respectively (and very close to each other) last year but are preventing Dory to even make 4/5 of them? Children were satisfied after the 5th Ice Age (8M gross)? The yellow shit only attracted monkeys while Inside Out was mainly for adults (take into account that IO's average ticket price is lower than Dory's even when taking inflation into account)? A nuclear holocaust exterminated the youth in the first months of the year?

I am not the great analyser, but maybe Dory just doesn't attract us europeans? And why not? Who knows... (unnecessary sequel, shit for a film etc.).

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1 hour ago, Omni said:

The huge disappointment come exactly from what you said: in Europe (and not just there) Dory became just an average animated film, completely uneventful. In many countries Nemo turned out to be some sort of "thing of the past", and Dory was perceived as an overall unnecessary sequel.

 

But tell me, you great analyser, what are the precise differences in the market that allowed the yellow shit (cit. edroger) and Inside Out to gross 23 and 25 millions respectively (and very close to each other) last year but are preventing Dory to even make 4/5 of them? Children were satisfied after the 5th Ice Age (8M gross)? The yellow shit only attracted monkeys while Inside Out was mainly for adults (take into account that IO's average ticket price is lower than Dory's even when taking inflation into account)? A nuclear holocaust exterminated the youth in the first months of the year?

 

Because you expected Dory to be able to compete with the Minions phenomenon that kids love? Or Inside Out that targets a larger audience? Dory was a sequel nobody asked for to begin with unlike Toy Story or The Incredibles, I was personally much more excited about IO than Dory.

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A few notes:

1) How you personally feel about a movie is irrilevant

2) Dory will make more than IO both domestically and internationally: how does that translate to attracting a more limited audience?

3) I see no analysis about market differences in your post

4) Nemo is the highest grossing (adjusted) non-sequel animated film of the last decade, and the best selling DVD of all time. On paper it had huge potential, and it clearly showed it with the 485M grossed in NA and the 700M+ OS predictions made buy every sort of user (and the latter alone is enough for the predicate 'disappointing' to be an analitic truth).

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1 hour ago, Omni said:

A few notes:

1) How you personally feel about a movie is irrilevant

2) Dory will make more than IO both domestically and internationally: how does that translate to attracting a more limited audience?

3) I see no analysis about market differences in your post

4) Nemo is the highest grossing (adjusted) non-sequel animated film of the last decade, and the best selling DVD of all time. On paper it had huge potential, and it clearly showed it with the 485M grossed in NA and the 700M+ OS predictions made buy every sort of user (and the latter alone is enough for the predicate 'disappointing' to be an analitic truth).

 

Dory appeals to kids and some older people nostalgic of Nemo that's why, without Nemo Dory would be under IO. IO targeted older audiences while kids were in love with Minions.

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On 26/9/2016 at 9:44 PM, Fullbuster said:

 

Dory appeals to kids and some older people nostalgic of Nemo that's why, without Nemo Dory would be under IO. IO targeted older audiences while kids were in love with Minions.

I'm speachless. First you said Dory couldn't compete with Inside Out, then the numbers make you reformulate the explaination (nostalgia was a decisive factor) - but to be honest that's not even close to an explaination. Nostalgia was already considered a potentially huge buster, as Nemo and Dory are still extremely popular, otherwise where would all the 750/900+ OS predictions come from? North America and Australia met the high expectations, but something didn't go right in Europe and in other countries (Japan, China, ...). What Quigley said is the perfect reflection of this: a 50/50 ratio is ridiculous nowadays for an animated film. So just to sum up all your pseudo-aprioristic "analysis":

a > market conditions were, in many coutries, Italy included, ill-fated - as if the yellow shit, Inside Out, Zootopia, Jungle Book never existed

b > Dory couldn't compete with Inside Out and it had to beat it (thanks to nostalgia) - at the same time! *inserts Aristotle's curse*+

c > it's not a problem of mine if in some countries Dory sold at least as many tickets as Nemo, while in many others it couldn't even make half of the original

d > the definition of disappointment rotates around me

 

Unfortunately this forum's rules put a formal respect above reason, so I can't write the BPS consequences of what you said.

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Although Dory was expected to do more in the UK, it is by no means a bad performance at all, compared to a lot of other European countries. Dory will end around £42m, which is a £5m jump from Nemo's £37m. That's quite a reasonable increase, I'd say, especially as it faced huge competition from BFG here, which also made £30m, as well as Pets a few weeks prior, which made £35m. Altogether that's well over £100m of revenue generated from 3 family films in a short space of time.

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