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2 minutes ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

The problem isn’t the MCU but rather the urge of making everything a franchise

and more specifically, a franchise in which corporate vision totally trumps artistic vision. MCU is just the biggest example of this. i'll bet you it wouldn't be criticized - at least not remotely as severely - if it had afforded directors genuine creative freedom and opportunity to experiment. for everything that you can argue it's done well, it also is, in its current form, the biggest representative of the kind of cinema that's completely antithetical to the cinema that Scorsese, Coppola, etc. have dedicated their creative lives to making, preserving, and promoting, only to end up increasingly dismissed and suppressed by "inoffensively" hostile corporate interests, and to not understand and acknowledge this is willful ignorance. 

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3 minutes ago, Jake Gittes said:

and more specifically, a franchise in which corporate vision totally trumps artistic vision. MCU is just the biggest example of this. i'll bet you it wouldn't be criticized - at least not remotely as severely - if it had afforded directors genuine creative freedom and opportunity to experiment. for everything that you can argue it's done well, it also is, in its current form, the biggest representative of the kind of cinema that's completely antithetical to the cinema that Scorsese, Coppola, etc. have dedicated their creative lives to making, preserving, and promoting, only to end up increasingly dismissed and suppressed by "inoffensively" hostile corporate interests, and to not understand and acknowledge this is willful ignorance. 

What would be examples of more creative freedom and experimentation in the MCU?

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12 minutes ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

That said, I feel like Scorsese and Ford chose Marvel as more a criticism on current blockbuster takeover. No one is denying that moviegoing is expensive, hell being a biology major, most of the movies I see theatrical nowadays are the tentpoles due to family/friends and for fun. The problem isn’t the MCU but rather the urge of making everything a franchise, sometimes it works out but you don’t capture the same pull like DC and Star Wars, but the rest kills franchises like the Lego films, MonsterVerse, the numerous flopping sequels this year but due to the ways things are now as well as the rise of streaming as well as the pandemonium of the Trump era, major studios would rather risk a flop for nostalgia than try a new ideas or try mid budget films. In 2000 had 7 films in the top 50 that year were sequels/reboots, 2019 has 27 films in the top 50. Unless we do ticket based pricing (like cheaper for smaller films, regular for tentpoles etc.), there won’t really be a change. Audiences have always gone to the cinema for fun, but it’s sad and disheartening to see less options and less risks, so it’s an understandable complaint.

We actually talked about this in Classic Convo recently but the movie landscape in 2000 was vastly different from what is today. If you look at most of the biggest movies that year (even some of the brand/franchise films) they were mainly sold as star vehicles for their certified A-listers of the time. The issue there is that nobody took their places once the starpower of those certified A-listers started to wane (Entertainment Weekly famously even ran a big cover story in 2004 called "Why Hollywood Can't Find the Next Julia Roberts") and brand power would eventually become the new thing that was guaranteed to bring in the big bucks. Thus, we are where we are today.

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It's very interesting to see how Lindelof seems to be handling the themes of nostalgia and echoes of the past in Watchmen compared to how his Lost co-creator Abrams has with his Star Wars films. Feels like they'd make an interesting comparison together, especially with Rise of Skywalker coming up

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1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

We should bring Orson Welles and Stanley Kubrick back from the dead and ask them what they think of Marvel/superhero movies. 

Kurosawa being reached to comment:

rashomon_3f.jpg

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50 minutes ago, Jake Gittes said:

and more specifically, a franchise in which corporate vision totally trumps artistic vision. MCU is just the biggest example of this. i'll bet you it wouldn't be criticized - at least not remotely as severely - if it had afforded directors genuine creative freedom and opportunity to experiment. for everything that you can argue it's done well, it also is, in its current form, the biggest representative of the kind of cinema that's completely antithetical to the cinema that Scorsese, Coppola, etc. have dedicated their creative lives to making, preserving, and promoting, only to end up increasingly dismissed and suppressed by "inoffensively" hostile corporate interests, and to not understand and acknowledge this is willful ignorance. 

Exactly.

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It was a stupid and broad statement. If End Game isn't cinema, every single action film isn't cinema, most films aren't.

 

Had they said refined cinema, or complex blah blah they would have been fine,

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8 hours ago, CoolioD1 said:

i saw it on twitter yesterday and can't be bothered to find it but Kurosawa said the same goddamn thing about jurassic park in the 90s (sidebar: that must've stung spielberg, who's a big Kurosawa stan). it never changes.

He said the same thing about sci-fi movies in general.

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7 hours ago, infamous5445 said:

What would be examples of more creative freedom and experimentation in the MCU?

There's none, they could do something like Fox did with Logan and Deadpool, but they won't do it.

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8 hours ago, Jake Gittes said:

and more specifically, a franchise in which corporate vision totally trumps artistic vision. MCU is just the biggest example of this. i'll bet you it wouldn't be criticized - at least not remotely as severely - if it had afforded directors genuine creative freedom and opportunity to experiment. for everything that you can argue it's done well, it also is, in its current form, the biggest representative of the kind of cinema that's completely antithetical to the cinema that Scorsese, Coppola, etc. have dedicated their creative lives to making, preserving, and promoting, only to end up increasingly dismissed and suppressed by "inoffensively" hostile corporate interests, and to not understand and acknowledge this is willful ignorance. 

 

lol

 

These old geezers have probably no idea of the difference between Marvel & DC and which characters belong to whom.

That s how little they are invested in this.

 

They said Marvel because they heard it beat Avatar at the Box Office but make no mistake, in ther minds, it is all the same.

Marvel/DC/Franchise Number 23

Do you really think these directors made an investigation on how these movies are made ?

Suuuuuure.

Keep your fanfic alive, son.

 

The MCU is such a slave trade for their directors, what happens over there is so horrible they ALL keep coming back.

That s hwo badly their vision is trumped at Marvel Studios HQ.

 

We all know Feige ghost-directs 6-8 movies a year and can be at 8 different locations at the same time, that is how powerful he is. 

 

People criticizes Marvel Studios without reading any big articles on it or on how the movies are actually made.

 

No, the only thing they have as an argument is Edgar Wright.

Even the Edgar Wright argument is fishy, since Feige never said anything about it but he is still fuming about it no doubt.

 

What kind of irresponsible ass-shat leaves a tentpole 3 weeks before it starts shooting ?

 

Auteurs who think they have a big dick, that is who.

Auteurs with Hubris so big the idea of making a big commerical hit for the masses is despicalbe to them.

See a pattern emerging here ...

 

Go Edgar, make my day, make your auteur film that makes 110m dom & 240m ww ... which would mean a giant blocbuster for you.

Show us how it s done, how your create true pop cultural icons, not icons for neckbeards hipsters who spends their day circle jerking.

 

lol

Edited by The Futurist
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Experimenting is easy, any cinema student short has plenty of experimentation and nobody cares and nobody should.

Audiences are not here to watch a filmmaker experiment to satisfy their ego, movies are made for audiences.

I know these concepts are trivial and vulgar to some of you.

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3 hours ago, Firepower said:

There's none, they could do something like Fox did with Logan and Deadpool, but they won't do it.

Instead they did Guardians of the Galaxy and Black Panther. Just because it's not R-rated doesn't make it uncreative.

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3 hours ago, Firepower said:

There's none, they could do something like Fox did with Logan and Deadpool, but they won't do it.

Well....

 

Edited by SpiderByte

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32 minutes ago, That One Guy said:

Episode 1: The Scorsese Menace

Episode 2: Attack of the Coppola

Episode 3: Revenge of the Old Men

 

What will come next?

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16 minutes ago, The Panda said:

 

Episode 1: The Scorsese Menace

Episode 2: Attack of the Coppola

Episode 3: Revenge of the Old Men

 

What will come next?

Episode 4 : A New Hope of Spielberg

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