Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[JB33]

That said, even if I don't agree with a lot of what @NCsoft said, I have to hand it to him for at least showing up here. The rest of the Jim gang is predictably silent.

[Porthos]

3 minutes ago, JB33 said:

That said, even if I don't agree with a lot of what @NCsoft said, I have to hand it to him for at least showing up here. The rest of the Jim gang is predictably silent.

At least two of them are in the UK where it's the middle of the night, you know.  (5am I believe)

[JB33]

Just now, Porthos said:

At least two of them are in the UK where it's the middle of the night, you know.  (5am I believe)

Good point. Good point. I didn't even notice how late it is here (10:18PM).

[Barnack]

35 minutes ago, HeadShot said:

Also with streaming taking off in the capacity it is and blockbusters becoming quite affordable there’s not going to be much left of Jim’s creations to stand the test of time unlike other talented directors whose story and effective storytelling remains one for the history books.

What do you mean by blockbuster becoming quite affordable ? What streaming will change about Jim creation standing the test of time versus regular TV ?

 

https://theharrispoll.com/it-may-have-premiered-75-years-ago-but-it-would-appear-that-wind-has-still-got-legs-when-asked-to-name-their-favorite-movie-of-all-time-the-septuagenarian-civil-war-epic-gone-with-the-wind-is-ameri/

 

17 year's after release titanic was number 3 of the favorite movie list of american adult (and rising from 2008):

 

2008	2014
Gone with the Wind	1	1
Star Wars	2	2
Titanic		3
The Godfather	9	4
Lord of the Rings	4	5
The Sound of Music	5	6
Dirty Dancing		7
Wizard of Oz	6	8
It’s a Wonderful Life		9
E.T.		10

 

 

 

It was the number one movie among the 18-37 generation, it has a really realistic shoot to be the Gone With the Wind of it's time and to become the most frequent adults favorite movie in 2050.

 

Is movies are quite old and already quite time tested, Aliens, Titanic & Terminator 1-2 should continue to age really well, when you make it up on that list: http://www.theyshootpictures.com/gf1000_all1000films_table.php, you tend to stay on it for a while.

[NCsoft]

49 minutes ago, Porthos said:

As a person who has zero ties to both Marvel and Avatar, I'd like to ask @NCsoft a question.

 

If Endgame had a 'normal' late run expansion, say around Labor Day Weekend for two weeks, would you feel the same about how it would have broken the record, given late expansions happen all the time for various movies for various reasons?

There is several layers to my mental state surrounding this I suppose:

1. Endgame wouldn't actually be able to surpass Avatar with just a domestic Labor day expansion,  Endgame's natural run would have ended up being 25M or so short of Avatar, that's too much of a gap. Endgame would need to have a global re-release in order to pass Avatar, with an extended cut or something similar. In that case, I would feel slightly better because it feels a bit less cynical, however, since Disney has not done a global re-release for other MCU films, Endgame does need special "help" to take the record, that point will always remain. The other thing with Endgame's current half baked re-release is that Disney has been reporting some interesting numbers that even people in the International forum aren't able to completely verify. For example, there were two $3M to $4M random upward adjustment happening at the end of weekend when the weekend OS number is merely 1 to 2M, and even Charlie was saying that since last Friday, Disney reported Endgame numbers didn't match Comscore. I'm not saying this to dispute the record, I'm saying this adds some further frustration record-breaking "experience". 

 

2. Regardless of Whether Endgame needs special help to pass Avatar or not, my sentiment of it not breaking the record in a "true record breaker" fashion also stands, because it's basically making the same amount as Avatar, 10 years later in a much bigger global market. Previous record breakers tends to break global record by at least 20%, up to 100% (Titanic), even when the world market hasn't increased as much as the last ten years. Of course, there's a lingering sadness of the breaking the trend that all WW records are held by "Ground breaking original films reflective of their era", but that's just me, a lot of people don't care about that.

 

3. Regardless of all this, a record is a record, and I acknowledge Endgame's record. However, part of my negative emotion comes from the ongoing arguments/debates with MCU fans since later April, when this frustratingly long run (for me) began. Where the entire forum (which I always regarded highly as a place where sane, sensible and intelligent people who loves box office gather) was suddenly filled with large amount of fanboys filled with hatred toward Jim and were constantly belittling Avatar as a film, and as a box office phenomenon. I would have been happier to see passing of the torch, if there is some level of respect (which I've always had to a degree, for MCU) is shown for the former record holder.

But as you've seen from the likes of headshot and KJsooner, and a number of other posters, this was simply not the case.  These insanely ridiculous exchange rate/3D fad arguments against Avatar fails to consider that despite exchange rate, global box office market still evolved from $29.1B in 2009 to $42B+ in 2019, and shows no signs of stopping, and Avatar topped worldwide, overseas, domestic and China all time record simultaneously, while raising the global records by 50%, earning almost 3B when only 4 films in history has passed 1B (in 2009). I was really hoping to have discussion both acknowledging Endgame's impressiveness (which I've done plenty of times), but also acknowledge the historic box office heights Avatar achieved, so it's kind of sad to see a box office forum disturbed by pure fanboy-ism, where reasons and actual numbers can't prevail. It's even sadder that the undisputed king of box office is being constantly dissed, dismissed and belittled in a box office oriented forums and his fans relegated to "cult" status, when many of us just want to share a piece of our mind. I suppose all of this somewhat affected my feeling toward endgame obtaining the record. 

As you can see, I was once actually quite positive and was looking forward to Endgame's run:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by NCsoft

[Porthos]

I will go ahead and make one, and only one, semi-cynical observation.

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that Disney/Marvel badly wanted to make this announcement at/by SDCC and thus had a somewhat weird/unconventional expansion earlier in a run than normal, giving them enough of a lead cushion to ramp up sales ahead of SDCC.

 

Sure there was the Blu-Ray angle, and it's a totally legit one, but it does seem to me that they were rather pleased to make this announcement by the time of SDCC and all the mega press it got.

 

I'm very sure Kevin Feige felt great about making that announcement to the biggest Marvel die-hards AND taking time to rightfully salute James Cameron.

 

If it wasn't for SDCC, Marvel/Disney probably would have just gone for a late expansion at LDW, counted up their change, and called it a day.

 

Now, maybe I am being too cynical by half.  But this is still an entertainment company and companies like to maximize their positive press.  Doesn't take away their accomplishment in the slightest to put it in some context.

 

So expansion at LDW, re-release during Awards Season, or this slightly strange Expansion With Benefits in the late end of the mid run, it's all the same to me.  Endgame earned it's title fair and square.  And any of my semi-cynical thoughts about the timing of it all doesn't take one iota away from the accomplishment.

 

(especially since Feige technically said it'll pass tomorrow )

Edited July 21, 2019 by Porthos

[Legion Again]

Some marvel fans have been absolutely awful, and it definitely tarnishes the whole thing some. 

[Porthos]

9 minutes ago, NCsoft said:

There is several layers to my mental state surrounding this I suppose:

Fair enough, and it'll take me some time to chew through all of your arguments. 👍

 

As I just said in my last post, I do think the timing of this was more than a little on the cynical side.

 

I just don't particularly care one way or the other, as it really is all the same to me.  The global expansion argument is an interesting side angle, but then we're into re-release arguments which frankly have always bored me to tears.

 

As for the Avatar/MCU stan wars?  I can get why that would be grating.  More than you might realize, actually, as I am sick to death (and have been for years) for all of the stan wars inside and surrounding SW.  

 

So for that, you have my sympathies.  But... Hmmm, how to put it.  There's a reason why I stay away from this thread usually, as I find such style of arguing... distasteful and annoying no matter who is doing it.

 

Any other observations I might have about The Great BOT Avatar/MCU War of 2019 probably aren't particularly helpful right now, so I'll leave them unsaid.

[NCsoft]

3 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Fair enough, and it'll take me some time to chew through all of your arguments. 👍

 

If you're ever bored and want to entertain some of these arguments, do visit the admission estimate thread that Charlie created a while ago, where I've written some of the longest post that I've ever written. With some of my perspectives on Avatar's impressive run. I get that to people who don't particularly care, this seems like such a trivial thing to debate over, but this triggers completely different emotions on different people, I've been dreading this day with a very heavy heart.

 

7 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

So for that, you have my sympathies.  But... Hmmm, how to put it.  There's a reason why I stay away from this thread usually, as I find such style of arguing... distasteful and annoying no matter who is doing it.

  

Any other observations I might have about The Great BOT Avatar/MCU War of 2019 probably aren't particularly helpful right now, so I'll leave them unsaid.

I do like to debate/argue, almost too much. 

It feels like box office is a great topic to argue about though, many others probably feel the same, it's awesome that we have complete pacifists here like you though. 

 

[WhiteWings]

It's too bad Endgame took the crown under such nasty terms. Forcefully dragging its legs through the finish line at any cost.

 

Would've been way better if it just blew itself into #1 in three weeks like some predicted.

At least some people can finally rest now.

[Permanent Magnet]

14 minutes ago, WhiteWings said:

It's too bad Endgame took the crown under such nasty terms. Forcefully dragging its legs through the finish line at any cost.

 

Would've been way better if it just blew itself into #1 in three weeks like some predicted.

At least some people can finally rest now.

[WhiteWings]

2 minutes ago, Permanent Magnet said:

Nah, diarrhea. Yet still probably doing better than your mouth. 😒

 

I never had a horse in this race, although I had some fun poking people that did. I said Endgame would pass Avatar ever since the re-issue was announced.

I'm just stating things as I see them.

[SLAM!]

I don't think the "#1 film of all time" moniker will belong to an original film or a franchise-starting film ever again. But kudos to Avatar for being able to hold onto #1 for nine and a half years. Something was going to beat it sooner or later.

Edited July 21, 2019 by SLAM!

[Permanent Magnet]

4 minutes ago, WhiteWings said:

Nah, diarrhea. Yet still probably doing better than your mouth. 😒

 

I never had a horse in this race, although I had some fun poking people that did. I said Endgame would pass Avatar ever since the re-issue was announced.

I'm just stating things as I see them.

you really seem to be butthurt

 

the movie became the highest grosser of all time and needed 1 re-release, Avatar also had one (yes it already broke the record at the time) but still, all it took EG is re-expansion to close those 20-25M gap

[Cap]

Bringing this over from then SDCC thread:

 

5 hours ago, captainwondyful said:

TAKE NOTE BOT. Kevin was Super GRACIOUS about this. Said very nice things about James Cameron and said “when he releases another movie he will probably take it back. But for now; Avengers is the biggest movie of all time”

 

[Legion Again]

Maybe Avatar losing #1 will finally get Cameron Stans to focus on Titanic again instead. By far the more impressive performance (and of course much crazier than Endgame).

[Permanent Magnet]

1 minute ago, captainwondyful said:

Bringing this over from then SDCC thread:

  

 

tell this to Cameron fans, who will never get over their arrogance.

[WhiteWings]

3 minutes ago, Permanent Magnet said:

you really seem to be butthurt

 

the movie became the highest grosser of all time and needed 1 re-release, Avatar also had one (yes it already broke the record at the time) but still, all it took EG is re-expansion to close those 20-25M gap

I think I'm allowed to both be happy for Endgame to hold the record AND think the re-issue was an unfortunate way to achieve the record that made them lose good faith. (which they have plenty of, so they can afford it, but still)

 

Even now I still find their decision on clawing at the #1 a bit puzzling. But they have the best marketing team, so they must know what they're doing.

[JimiQ]

2 hours ago, cdsacken said:

I'll say it right now. I hope Avatar 2 breaks the 3B barrier. Avatar stans will be giant assholes about it but I don't care. Why? I want Avatar 3/4/5 to actually happen before Cameron dies and he takes 10 years a damn film.

If he dies then lightstorm sells rights to Disney and they sign Peyton Reed or someone like that to direct

[WhiteWings]

What makes you think Disney isn't developing an AI to absorb James Cameron's essence to make Avatars until the end of time?

Geniuses often prophesize their fate and that of their legacy in their own work.