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2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

I think the real issue is that MCU are popcorn flicks so the fans get real defensive when a superhero movie that tries to be a good movie comes along.

 

MCU is shameless they don't even try

Just like Avatar..... :Venom:

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Well well well some of the DC fans are really acting high and mighty don't forget you made Justice League , BvS , Suicide Squad and you calling MCU movies dumb is the highest level of hypocrisy... Also MCU is the interconnected universe so there is limit to the freedom of Director since the ending or the next movie has to be in line with that. DC has stopped doing that and that's why Joker might be the outlier. If it was connected universe you would have got Jared Leto Joker 2.0.... I mean what a great joker he was and that literally everyone hated him for being wanna be edgy dude. For all purposes MCU might make a movie which will have greater accolades than any other CBM they might not but saying art and such bullshit. Every movie is made for making money, if the art is so important why show everyone show the incels.the movie they might appreciate the great ART of being a Joker... This is literally stupid thing ... Also some of you act so high and mighty that DC made a so called SMART movie well guess what people said the same thing about BvS, it was so smart that Martha happened. You really forget that GA audience watches these movies for entertainment and not for art or whatever, they have indie movies for that. 

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13 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Would need to define "smart", you can be 100% popcorn and still smart (quick-witted intelligence), Edge of Tomorrow/Jurassic Park/Back to the Future/Lord of the Rings/Casino Royal/End Game/Memento/The Matrix/Avatar/Inception/Edgar Wright stuff are pure 100% popcorn, but arguably still quite smart (it is not obvious what it mean when talking to a passive non-animated object like a movie, it is not like a movie will solve any problems or do something, people could mean different thing with that word).

Simply breezing over a political topic like what was going on with surveillance and the NSA is not what I would call "smart"...  if the movie did a deep dive study into it and displayed real social commentary than was worth discussing then I could see it but at the end of the day the movie is remembered more for action sequences that were in some ways influenced by Heat.  It's a great movie..   I LOVE Winter Soldier but even when you look at the 3rd act,  it's big huge Hollywood explosions and big budget CGI..  it's not saying a lot there other than hey check out this action porn. 

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5 minutes ago, Nero said:

You really forget that GA audience watches these movies for entertainment and not for art or whatever, they have indie movies for that. 

The point is......  why not both?  The fact is it's a movie that is going to appeal to general audiences,  it will certainly have a ceiling with the R rating but it's also a movie that obviously is appealing to the "indie crowd" as you put it..   otherwise it wouldn't be in consideration for the golden lion.  They made the decision to green light this project and it's a very modest budget....   when MCU does the same maybe we will talk about that but they haven't yet so we'll see. 

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8 minutes ago, Johnny Tran said:

Simply breezing over a political topic like what was going on with surveillance and the NSA is not what I would call "smart"...  if the movie did a deep dive study into it and displayed real social commentary than was worth discussing then I could see it but at the end of the day the movie is remembered more for action sequences that were in some ways influenced by Heat.  It's a great movie..   I LOVE Winter Soldier but even when you look at the 3rd act,  it's big huge Hollywood explosions and big budget CGI..  it's not saying a lot there other than hey check out this action porn. 

Well like I said I am really not sure the movie had anything smart to say about it, but it is what smartness boil down when talking movies, for example is Beethoven 5th dumb or smart ?

 

Can a movie have smart editing choice, well written humor, smart exposition choice, smart sound editing device, smart world building, smart movie storytelling device gimmick, smart stunt creation and be a smart action porn (like arguably Fury Road, Gravity, Kill Bill 1-2, The Matrix, Inception)

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4 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Well like I said I am really not sure the movie had anything smart to say about it, but it is what smartness boil down when talking movies, for example is Beethoven 5th dumb or smart ?

 

Can a movie have smart editing choice, well written humor, smart exposition choice, smart sound editing device, smart world building, smart movie storytelling device gimmick, smart stunt creation and be a smart action porn (like arguably Fury Road, Gravity, Kill Bill 1-2, The Matrix, Inception)

I'm glad you brought up Fury Road.  that movie has more to say about society without uttering a word than most Hollywood blockbusters.  All the viewer has to do is pay attention to what they are seeing on screen and the pieces fit together very nicely.  Love that film. 

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2 hours ago, MrGlass2 said:

How is Aquaman "dumb" when Black Panther has a very similar story but dumber? The relative who has never been to the hidden kingdom somehow knows all the rules and is the one asking for a duel - then manages to win against the prince who should have trained for it his whole life.

Black Panther actually had themes alongside good dialogue and writing.

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1 hour ago, Nero said:

Well well well some of the DC fans are really acting high and mighty don't forget you made Justice League , BvS , Suicide Squad and you calling MCU movies dumb is the highest level of hypocrisy... Also MCU is the interconnected universe so there is limit to the freedom of Director since the ending or the next movie has to be in line with that. DC has stopped doing that and that's why Joker might be the outlier. If it was connected universe you would have got Jared Leto Joker 2.0.... I mean what a great joker he was and that literally everyone hated him for being wanna be edgy dude. For all purposes MCU might make a movie which will have greater accolades than any other CBM they might not but saying art and such bullshit. Every movie is made for making money, if the art is so important why show everyone show the incels.the movie they might appreciate the great ART of being a Joker... This is literally stupid thing ... Also some of you act so high and mighty that DC made a so called SMART movie well guess what people said the same thing about BvS, it was so smart that Martha happened. You really forget that GA audience watches these movies for entertainment and not for art or whatever, they have indie movies for that. 

To be honest both the DCEU and MCU all pale in comparison to Into The Spider Verse both in terms of reception (as it was the only CBM to win Best Feature in something) and everything else.

 

 

Also cool it, you’re acting mighty childish

Edited by YourMother the Edgelord
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2 hours ago, MrGlass2 said:

How is Aquaman "dumb" when Black Panther has a very similar story but dumber? The relative who has never been to the hidden kingdom somehow knows all the rules and is the one asking for a duel - then manages to win against the prince who should have trained for it his whole life.

Lmao at Black Panther having a dumber story than Aquaman. What a joke. 

 

That relative you mention may have never been to the hidden kingdom but he had a father who taught him all about Wakanda. And T'Challa may have trained all his life but we know Killmonger was also a highly skilled soldier who spent most of his life training to get the chance to exact revenge on those who killed his father.

 

In any case, these are nitpicks as far as I'm concerned. That Black Panther managed to cover some heavy, real-world issues in a nuanced way while also being an entertaining blockbuster is far more impressive than anything about Aquaman and likely Joker for that matter.

Edited by Ororo Munroe
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5 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

JBrent33, this is how he operates

 

Just acts morally superior and never says anything of substance, accept calling me a troll over and over of course (very important).

 

 

Ironjimbo you aren't even part of this conversation. You probably don't even know what movie I am talking about. Didn't know my Alita comments hurt you so much.

 

Also my clairvoyant mind (your words, not mine) says that you are gonna talk about how MCU is dumb and how everyone who likes Marvel is dumb. Or Disney BAD.

Edited by lorddemaxus
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I don't understand where this conversation about smart superhero movies is going. Superhero movies don't have to be smart and being smarter doesn't equal better. Just a really pretentious conversation as a whole. Handling "heavy themes" or "real world issues" doesn't make them smarter either when a lot of it is just touching on them. Seriously, I have no qualms when I say Aquaman is as good as Black Panther or something. They are just good as different things. 

Edited by lorddemaxus
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5 hours ago, lorddemaxus said:

I don't understand where this conversation about smart superhero movies is going. Superhero movies don't have to be smart and being smarter doesn't equal better. Just a really pretentious conversation as a whole. Handling "heavy themes" or "real world issues" doesn't make them smarter either when a lot of it is just touching on them. Seriously, I have no qualms when I say Aquaman is as good as Black Panther or something. They are just good as different things. 

Superhero movies don't have to smart but it's not at all pretentious to point out when one has more to say and is smart about saying it. 

 

Aquaman is enjoyable for what it is but the characters, the dialogue, the script as a whole, are all subpar, at best. I don't think it's as good a movie as Black Panther... absolutely not. 

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8 minutes ago, Ororo Munroe said:

Superhero movies don't have to smart but it's not at all pretentious to point out when one has more to say and is smart about saying it. 

 

Aquaman is enjoyable for what it is but the characters, the dialogue, the script as a whole, are all subpar, at best. I don't think it's as good a movie as Black Panther... absolutely not. 

It is pretentious when you are having a dick measuring competition about which which franchise is smarter.

 

Aquaman may be worse than Black Panther in terms of the script but it does an excellent job when it comes to the blockbuster filmmaking aspect (which Black Panther absolutely butchers). Black Panther may be "smarter" but I don't think it makes it better. My favourite MCU film (GOTG V2) isn't a heavy film or smart or complex. At most, it gets a bit emotional. Hell, even when it comes to comic-book movies as a whole, my three favourite ones are Spider-Man 2, Speed Racer, and Josie and the Pussycats which aren't "smart" films (in the way you guys mean it) or deal with heavy, real world themes. 

 

I honestly have no clue what smarter even means in this conversation. Movies that start deep, intellectual conversations? Because superhero movies don't really do that.

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13 hours ago, Johnny Tran said:

So to put a bow on the discussion,  do I have hopes that the MCU will ever strive for more than popcorn fun?  No..  probably not.  They are extremely successful in that lane and I don't think they have the urge to switch things up. 

 

That's fine for them,..  they don't have to make a classic movie,  their goal is money.  As a moviegoer,  I think it's possible to do both but they aren't interested. 

why is your pretentious ass sitting here acting like blockbusters can't be classics. Indiana Jones, Back to the future etc.  Just because a movie isn't completely devoid from any color or fun doesn't mean that it won't be considered a classic. MCU is one of the greatest achievements in cinema history of all time. 

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1 hour ago, lorddemaxus said:

It is pretentious when you are having a dick measuring competition about which which franchise is smarter.

 

Aquaman may be worse than Black Panther in terms of the script but it does an excellent job when it comes to the blockbuster filmmaking aspect (which Black Panther absolutely butchers). Black Panther may be "smarter" but I don't think it makes it better. My favourite MCU film (GOTG V2) isn't a heavy film or smart or complex. At most, it gets a bit emotional. Hell, even when it comes to comic-book movies as a whole, my three favourite ones are Spider-Man 2, Speed Racer, and Josie and the Pussycats which aren't "smart" films (in the way you guys mean it) or deal with heavy, real world themes. 

 

I honestly have no clue what smarter even means in this conversation. Movies that start deep, intellectual conversations? Because superhero movies don't really do that.

Black Panther butchers blockbuster filmmaking? Lol The only valid criticism I've heard and the only thing the haters like to harp on is the CGI in the final battle. There's much more to this movie and blockbuster filmmaking than that. 

 

And nah, I don't need any movie to start a deep, intellectual conversation. Smarter to me simply means a more thoughtful narrative, one that delves deeper into its characters and their motivations. 

Edited by Ororo Munroe
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I think from all MCU movies Black Panther was the closest one to be something bigger than forgettable generic popcorn flick (there are also a couple of good movies too, but without any ambitions besides scope and budget). In some ways it succeeded in that regard (score, villain, some cool visuals and themes), but it never went far enough to reach brilliance and become a big exception in the franchise. And that's not Kevin Feige's goal anyway, his goal is to make money, sell toys and he's very successful in this, he won't change his formula until people get tired from MCU flicks (BO wise).

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13 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

I think the real issue is that MCU are popcorn flicks so the fans get real defensive when a superhero movie that tries to be a good movie comes along.

 

MCU is shameless they don't even try

Lmao get one movie that gets serious accolades in 11 years and suddenly you're up on a high horse. Some people have the memory of a goldfish, they already forgot Black Panther just this past Oscar season.

 

Lets not go pretending DC is Fox Searchlight. Between Jonah Hex, Green Lantern, Man of Steel, BvS, Suicide Squad, Justice League, DC making something that critics like is an exception, not the norm. DC isn't "paving the way" anymore, now they're catching up. Why do you think they spent since 2013 trying to replicate Marvels success with a live action cinematic universe?

 

Edited by SpiderByte
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