Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[robertman2]

Remember how Alice in Wonderland made a billion? Remember how badly the sequel dropped from the first?

[Water Bottle]

Just now, dashrendar44 said:

 

And? It's not like Cameron need the toys to make those movies or toys are what keep the audience interested in these movies. Whereas George Lucas literally got rich because of the toys not the movies, the toys are the reason why he could back up the movies, the reason why a whole generation is obsessed with SW. And Avatar's success proved that he didn't need that pavlovian merchandising galore to reach audience.

 

That is a silly argument. Yes George Lucas got rich of the toys but the films themselves captured the public's imagination. It stuck with people. The OT has lines people still quote. I can't remember a single line from Avatar. Star Wars movies are the reason the toys sold well not the other way around.

[Water Bottle]

2 minutes ago, James said:

There's no such thing as unnecessary sequel. By definition, why would a sequel be necessary. Why was TFA made? The story was done without it. Why was Avengers 2 made? You can't have a movie make 500m, let alone over 1.5b without hype behind it. 

 

Nope, there can be necessary sequels (like Harry Potter). Here's a difference between Marvel/Star Wars and Avatar: they feel like stories within a larger universe. They made me want more. In Avatar, I feel like we explored all of Pandora, told the story the world had to tell, and didn't leave me wanting more. 

 

In Star wars, it feels like every character on screen has its own interesting story. I can't say the same with Avatar.

[James]

1 minute ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Nope, there can be necessary sequels (like Harry Potter). Here's a difference between Marvel/Star Wars and Avatar: they feel like stories within a larger universe. They made me want more. In Avatar, I feel like we explored all of Pandora, told the story the world had to tell, and didn't leave me wanting more. 

 

In Star wars, it feels like every character on screen has its own interesting story. I can't say the same with Avatar.

But that is you. It is your opinion. That doesn't mean the rest of the world thinks the same.

[Water Bottle]

Just now, James said:

But that is you. It is your opinion. That doesn't mean the rest of the world thinks the same.

 

I notice no example given.

[IronJimbo]

3 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Nope, there can be necessary sequels (like Harry Potter). Here's a difference between Marvel/Star Wars and Avatar: they feel like stories within a larger universe. They made me want more. In Avatar, I feel like we explored all of Pandora, told the story the world had to tell, and didn't leave me wanting more. 

 

In Star wars, it feels like every character on screen has its own interesting story. I can't say the same with Avatar.

Come with me, if you want to be, in a world of pure imagination.

[dashrendar44]

9 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

That is a silly argument. Yes George Lucas got rich of the toys but the films themselves captured the public's imagination. It stuck with people. The OT has lines people still quote. I can't remember a single line from Avatar. Star Wars movies are the reason the toys sold well not the other way around.

 

So you're saying, just because you don't remember anything about Avatar, the whole world feels exactly the same? Yeah right. Now that's silly.

 

In 1977, people didn't have Iphones, didn't have PS4, didn't have the Internet downloading craze to divert their attention, the only alternative to escape mundane reality was going to the movie theater. So Lucas tapped into that to get people in droves. And still it was pretty much an american phenomenon. But yet in 2009; Cameron still managed to get people throughout the world in theaters massively despite the aforementioned modern distraction and you are diminishing this because of your SW fan bias.(Shades of 1998/99).

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

Just now, dashrendar44 said:

 

So you're saying, just because you don't remember anything about Avatar, the whole world feels exactly the same? Yeah right. Now that's silly.

 

In 1977, people didn't have Iphones, didn't have PS4, didn't have the Internet downloading craze to divert their attention, the only way to escape was going to the theater. So Lucas tapped into that to get people in droves. And still it was pretty much an american phenomenon. But in 2009; Cameron still managed to get people throughout the world in theaters massively despite the modern distraction and you are diminishing this because of your SW fan bias.(Shades of 1998/99).

 

 

I said I didn't remember lines. I remember the story.

 

I'm not diminishing Avatar. I'm saying it left people satisfied but not wanting more. That's not a bad thing for the movie, just the box office potential of the sequels.

[RandomCat]

 Bored at work, so did math.

 

As directors:

Cameron's lifetime DOM Gross is 1.974B

Lucas's life Dom Gross is 1.743B.

 

Star Wars I-VI totals 2.5B

Star Wars I-VII totals 3.462B

[Captain Craig]

19 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

Nobody really wants an Avatar sequel though. I feel no hype for it.

 

People want more Star Wars films. So much hype.

I don't know anyone who does. 

However, I'm not ignoring the fact that Disney has a Theme ride or that there is a traveling Cirque De Sole production keeping the Avatar world simmering along. 

Not saying either means there's wide spread interest. 

I think where Avatar 2 will fail is the repeat viewing business, regardless of how visually stunning it's likely to be. Sequels tend by nature to drop in box office. 

Yes there are exceptions but I don't expect an Avatar 3,4&5 to be breaking those rules, let alone 2 at this point. 

[Eevin]

1 minute ago, IronJimbo said:

 

Misunderstanding, I meant first sequel to a Cameron blockbuster, Aliens are T2 don't count.

 

As for the China prediction, it's not insane! Furious 7 in 2015 made $390m. Transformers made $320 in 2014. If you venture into the chinese box office section of this forum, they will tell you China loves Avatar. Here is the secret part that you might not have accounted for, the one month limit. In china foreign films are only allowed 1 month in cinema, however Jim is trying to extend that. He may be able to do it as it will have an environmental message as the original did. If it were released to day I think it would make $700m, but the 1 bil accounts for the growth of the Chinese box office.

 

Last point, if you think the Avatar sequels are over saturation, you're against sequels all together. The onslaught of superhero movies can't be compared.

 

Then yes, I guess it is the first sequel to a Cameron blockbuster.

 

And look, man, I have no problem with you making a way-out-of-left-field prediction about how much money Avatar 2 will make. "Insane" predictions can be the most rewarding depending on how right you are. My problem is how you are calling people out for refusing to believe your admittedly unprecedented predictions. Only 1 film in China has made $500m total, and to not only suggest that Avatar 2 will nearly double that but to shame people for refusing to believe it ain't cool. I doubt anyone thinks Avatar 2 will bomb. I doubt anyone thinks it will do under $1b total. Your prediction relies on a series of hypotheticals (will Cameron extend the one-month law, etc.) that other people won't be able to extrapolate, so them not agreeing with you does not mean they doubt James Cameron. 

 

And I'm not anti-sequel. I think it's great that an original property like Avatar can spawn such a successful franchise. I'm just saying you can't argue that Avatar is set apart from other franchises because it's original when they're about to make four sequels. Every franchise was an original property at some point.

 

Look, I'm not trying to start anything here. I've been here five days. I'm just expressing my opinion on what I think Avatar 2 will do at the box office, and you're expressing yours. Just try to be aware of the fact that just because people aren't as big a fan of Cameron as you are doesn't mean that they are crazy or are denying him. 

[Ozymandias]

7 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

So? Doesn't mean people are excited for an unnecessary sequel.

 

Like Independence Day 2, lol.

 

I'm sure the Avatar sequels will make plenty of money, I don't doubt James will deliver spectacles that will create a zeitgeist and change the way movies are forever made and seen for 1-2 years like last time.   I am wondering if plot, dialogue, and characterization are gonna take a back seat to the spectacle again.  After all, we know it doesn't take 15 years to write 3 scripts.  Either way, I'm personally not really looking forward to Jake, Neytiri, and their kids running around fighting evil humans on their rampaging quest for unobtanium so save Earth or whatever.

 

[dashrendar44]

11 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

I said I didn't remember lines. I remember the story.

 

I'm not diminishing Avatar. I'm saying it left people satisfied but not wanting more. That's not a bad thing for the movie, just the box office potential of the sequels.

 

So does the whole world. Remember "AVATAR IS POCAHONTAS". So Avatar haters, if people didn't remember this movie at all (aka the top grossing movie WW), how can you still remember that the story was just Pocahontas in space then as trotted around many countless times like some kind of demeaning argument? And how do you know if that is not what made people like it anyway and what make people interested into seeing what happens to "Blucahontas"(sic)?

 

(I also remember there are SW fans out there that didn't even want a sequel to A New Hope, call it Star Wars and don't acknowledge ESB and ROTJ so refusing Avatar sequels is futile like it won't be made because you don't want it. Just move on).

Edited December 12, 2016 by dashrendar44

[Water Bottle]

2 minutes ago, dashrendar44 said:

 

So does the whole world. Remember "AVATAR IS POCAHONTAS". So Avatar haters, if people didn't remember this movie at all, how can you still remember that the story was just Pocahontas in space then as trotted around many countless times like some kind of demeaning argument? And how do you know if that is not what made people like it anyway and what make people interested into seeing what happens to "Blucahontas"(sic)?

 

(I also remember there are SW fans out there that didn't even want a sequel to A New Hope, call it Star Wars and don't acknowledge ESB and ROTJ so refusing Avatar sequels is futile like it won't be made because you don't want it. Just move on).

 

I'm not an Avatar hater. I have the blu-ray and rewatch it every now and then because I like it. I'll likely see each sequel OW.

 

Still no hype for it. No excitement for it from me. 

[TalismanRing]

45 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

Terminator had a budget of $6m.

 

And yet, still his best movie.

[TalismanRing]

32 minutes ago, dashrendar44 said:

 

And? It's not like Cameron need the toys to make those movies or that toys are what keep the audience interested in these movies. Whereas George Lucas literally got rich because of the toys not the movies, the toys are the reason why he could back up the movies, the reason why a whole generation is obsessed with SW. And Avatar's success proved that Cameron didn't need that pavlovian merchandising galore to reach audience if the cinematic experience brings something to the table.

 

No, he needed 3D. 

 

 

[dashrendar44]

11 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:

 

No, he needed 3D. 

 

 

 

You mean the thing that Marvel Studios (and every Hollywood majors) then sloppily slapped onto their assembly line products systematically to cash on Cameron's success. You don't say.

Edited December 12, 2016 by dashrendar44

[TalismanRing]

4 minutes ago, dashrendar44 said:

 

You mean the thing that every Marvel movies then sloppily slapped onto their cash grabs to thrive on Cameron's success. You don't say.

 

I do say - though Marvel on whole has better stories, dialogue and acting underneath the 3D surcharge.  

 

The 3D gimmick was the same thing that propelled Alice 1 to $1b.  Didn't help Alice 2 because by then it was old hat.

 

[m3racer123]

 

48 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

 

Misunderstanding, I meant first sequel to a Cameron blockbuster, Aliens are T2 don't count.

 

As for the China prediction, it's not insane! Furious 7 in 2015 made $390m. Transformers made $320 in 2014. If you venture into the chinese box office section of this forum, they will tell you China loves Avatar. Here is the secret part that you might not have accounted for, the one month limit. In china foreign films are only allowed 1 month in cinema, however Jim is trying to extend that. He may be able to do it as it will have an environmental message as the original did. If it were released to day I think it would make $700m, but the 1 bil accounts for the growth of the Chinese box office.

 

Last point, if you think the Avatar sequels are over saturation, you're against sequels all together. The onslaught of superhero movies can't be compared.

 

 

 

Chinese box office isn't expanding as much now as it was a year or two ago. I would be surprised if any film, even Avatar 2, could break $1b within the next 2-3 years.

[IronJimbo]

41 minutes ago, Eevin said:

Then yes, I guess it is the first sequel to a Cameron blockbuster.

 

And look, man, I have no problem with you making a way-out-of-left-field prediction about how much money Avatar 2 will make. "Insane" predictions can be the most rewarding depending on how right you are. My problem is how you are calling people out for refusing to believe your admittedly unprecedented predictions. Only 1 film in China has made $500m total, and to not only suggest that Avatar 2 will nearly double that but to shame people for refusing to believe it ain't cool. I doubt anyone thinks Avatar 2 will bomb. I doubt anyone thinks it will do under $1b total. Your prediction relies on a series of hypotheticals (will Cameron extend the one-month law, etc.) that other people won't be able to extrapolate, so them not agreeing with you does not mean they doubt James Cameron. 

 

And I'm not anti-sequel. I think it's great that an original property like Avatar can spawn such a successful franchise. I'm just saying you can't argue that Avatar is set apart from other franchises because it's original when they're about to make four sequels. Every franchise was an original property at some point.

 

Look, I'm not trying to start anything here. I've been here five days. I'm just expressing my opinion on what I think Avatar 2 will do at the box office, and you're expressing yours. Just try to be aware of the fact that just because people aren't as big a fan of Cameron as you are doesn't mean that they are crazy or are denying him. 

All I'm saying is not to doubt Jim! The gif you posted suggested you thought I was a fool which is why I responded in the manner I did. Honestly no hard feelings though lol.

 

About Avatar being original is that it made the $2.7b WW as an original film, so the sky is the limits for the sequels.

Edited December 12, 2016 by IronJimbo