Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[TomCruiseTop]

1 minute ago, terrestrial said:

If Moore would have written comics that show equalism.... I might take some of it more seriously

 

Tu quoque fallacy... although I think Watchmen can be ignored as it's basically a play on the state of the industry at the time, and I think that Moore has pushed plenty of boundaries on many fronts, not only gender. The man has been an ardent critic of inequality, racism, and classicism for most of his life. I think it's unfair to levy an appeal to hypocrisy at him on that front, although it is one I see a lot. 

 

Was there a single non-white lead in the first or second phase of the MCU? Of course there wasn't because as Moore has elucidated many times (and which I won't post again in case it gets disappeared again), they come from a time and culture that appealed to 12 year olds of the '40s. 

[robertman2]

40 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

 

imagine unironically linking fucking watch mojo. Gonna link Pewdiepie next?

[terrestrial]

4 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

Tu quoque fallacy... although I think Watchmen can be ignored as it's basically a play on the state of the industry at the time, and I think that Moore has pushed plenty of boundaries on many fronts, not only gender. The man has been an ardent critic of inequality, racism, and classicism for most of his life. I think it's unfair to levy an appeal to hypocrisy at him on that front, although it is one I see a lot. 

 

Was there a single non-white lead in the first or second phase of the MCU? Of course there wasn't because as Moore has elucidated many times (and which I won't post again in case it gets disappeared again), they come from a time and culture that appealed to 12 year olds of the '40s. 

I speak about the material the movies are based on.

He is not a film maker, hence I compare what he did with what other did at a similar time

I am aware about him speaking out against.... but as he didn't add that into his work I am not seeing him as such a bright example as you seem to do.

As we speak here for some reasons about the MCU.... the material those movies are based on where at the time far more e.g. female including.... than his work.

 

I do compare the development see whom to cast.... also based on what is or what was actually possible (money-men), in especial as the budget for a movie is way higher than the costs for a new comic series.

 

For the size of the plans for the future.... I think they are on course (even if I would have been glad to see way more POC, females...) for what was / is in which year ~ doable in connection to something also a lot of people seem to forget:

Marvel is the sole studio only producing movies based on their own material, if they are not successful they all are loosing their jobs (theoretically).

Plus the age, POVs, AND from which kind of professions the lead money persons at Marvel Studio in the beginning did not help. Restrictions which characters are even allowed to be used, the bad rep e.g. Catwomen and Elektra still in the back of the minds...

I think in such a situation it is comprehensible why the early movies did not have females or POC as leads.

And since GotG (green is also a colour, also blue-something mix 😉 ) Black Panther they added a huge pool

Fury, War Machine, Falcon, (GotG incl Ronan 'Whooo?'), Helmdall were the beginning, it develops to the possibilities e.g. the Dora Milaje offer

Lets add more Asians (both genders), and...

To look into ideas for a movie, gets the right people, get the money men to agree to start.... is years of time needed (usually years before we, the GA learn about it), the money men needed partly to get switched out and the others to see some income before a change was possible.

10 years sounds like a lot (15 years back was when they discussed ideas for Ant-Man, that was planed to get released before Avengers 1), but is not, if you look into the size of the staff, how the situation behind the scene was.

Incl some not needed extra drama see e.g. moved release date for the first Ant-Man for personal reasons of the director, the stress to find a replacement movie for the release date (see to start to record a movie without a screenplay bcs of that) the changes that also caused for e.g. Avengers 1, the in my POV immature drama around the then director not willing to adjust his script beside him causing lots of changes for co-film-makers, following that the need for a replacement of a director and his team.... the start was not a smooth one.

 

To ask for more afterwards is always simple, to not forget what as up is a bit more difficult.

They did start out of a cliché filled genre also. Step-by-step or you drown

[TomCruiseTop]

3 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

I speak about the material the movies are based on.

He is not a film maker, hence I compare what he did with what other did at a similar time

I am aware about him speaking out against.... but as he didn't add that into his work I am not seeing him as such a bright example as you seem to do.

As we speak here for some reasons about the MCU.... the material those movies are based on where at the time far more e.g. female including.... than his work.

 

I do compare the development see whom to cast.... also based on what is or what was actually possible (money-men), in especial as the budget for a movie is way higher than the costs for a new comic series.

 

For the size of the plans for the future.... I think they are on course (even if I would have been glad to see way more POC, females...) for what was / is in which year ~ doable in connection to something also a lot of people seem to forget:

Marvel is the sole studio only producing movies based on their own material, if they are not successful they all are loosing their jobs (theoretically).

Plus the age, POVs, AND from which kind of professions the lead money persons at Marvel Studio in the beginning did not help. Restrictions which characters are even allowed to be used, the bad rep e.g. Catwomen and Elektra still in the back of the minds...

I think in such a situation it is comprehensible why the early movies did not have females or POC as leads.

And since GotG (green is also a colour, also blue-something mix 😉 ) Black Panther they added a huge pool

Fury, War Machine, Falcon, (GotG incl Ronan 'Whooo?'), Helmdall were the beginning, it develops to the possibilities e.g. the Dora Milaje offer

Lets add more Asians (both genders), and...

To look into ideas for a movie, gets the right people, get the money men to agree to start.... is years of time needed (usually years before we, the GA learn about it), the money men needed partly to get switched out and the others to see some income before a change was possible.

10 years sounds like a lot (15 years back was when they discussed ideas for Ant-Man, that was planed to get released before Avengers 1), but is not, if you look into the size of the staff, how the situation behind the scene was.

Incl some not needed extra drama see e.g. moved release date for the first Ant-Man for personal reasons of the director, the stress to find a replacement movie for the release date (see to start to record a movie without a screenplay bcs of that) the changes that also caused for e.g. Avengers 1, the in my POV immature drama around the then director not willing to adjust his script beside him causing lots of changes for co-film-makers, following that the need for a replacement of a director and his team.... the start was not a smooth one.

 

To ask for more afterwards is always simple, to not forget what as up is a bit more difficult.

They did start out of a cliché filled genre also. Step-by-step or you drown

I feel that we're having different conversations, I'm not denying what you're saying, although I don't fully agree that step by step is required, Avatar has a disabled protag, and a non-white protag and it's the highest grossing movie of all time, you can go big and not risk 'drowning'. 

 

The point I'm trying to get to is that many people see these movies as innocent, even banal. When AM is merely pointing out that they are products of something, and perhaps more than products (maybe even part of the cause) of something far more insidious in both culture and politics. 

 

I think you can even get a sense of that from this very discussion, the fact that the point Moore made was removed, probably by someone on the alt-right and/or authoritarian who probably sees this as an attack on their culture etc. says plenty about the current zeitgeist. And as for the history behind these, that's as clear as day, to deny the roots is so look stupid, of course we can move on and retcon the past, but we shouldn't forget it or the bad that often comes with the good. 

[terrestrial]

35 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

I feel that we're having different conversations, I'm not denying what you're saying, although I don't fully agree that step by step is required, Avatar has a disabled protag, and a non-white protag and it's the highest grossing movie of all time, you can go big and not risk 'drowning'. 

 

The point I'm trying to get to is that many people see these movies as innocent, even banal. When AM is merely pointing out that they are products of something, and perhaps more than products (maybe even part of the cause) of something far more insidious in both culture and politics. 

 

I think you can even get a sense of that from this very discussion, the fact that the point Moore made was removed, probably by someone on the alt-right and/or authoritarian who probably sees this as an attack on their culture etc. says plenty about the current zeitgeist. And as for the history behind these, that's as clear as day, to deny the roots is so look stupid, of course we can move on and retcon the past, but we shouldn't forget it or the bad that often comes with the good. 

Avatar did not start out of a comparable situation.

I am still in awe how he managed to get that one financed.

One was, he was willing to do a lot of miles to convince cinema owners to modernise (and the cinemas being in need for something to ~ contrast to TV...), also his reputation for the high earning possibility, to provide something completely new (and I highly disagree about him allegedly copying Dancing with Wolves, later...). And new technology....

Also it does not have so many people to introduce as possible solo movie characters..... no restrictions of abilities, no limitations to certain material.

 

But if the movie would have not ended as such a high earner.... he could have then start another project. He has to be careful, but not that careful as a Studio planing to do 3 movies per year (maybe even 4 with the FOX material in the long run???) for decades to come. Imagine how Marvel Studio's staff (including hired for project xy only) would look like if they'd produce only a movie every 11 years.
 

Insidious... all can (and usually gets) used in such a way in a way, sadly.

I understand, as stated way earlier, that some people at least do feel connected to SH... films for superior wishes / goals, but I doubt that is the majority.

We did have superior abilities in stories of the past too (half something supernatural, extreme Bow user like Robin Hood, Arthur and his 12 knights, other knights, mystic lineage hero,...), I do not think all of this stories have a superior goal.

The cliché characters (POC was in jail, POC or female breaks the equipment, is unreliable, makes the stupid decisions...) I see far more dangerous for that, the jokes about minorities or females too.

You take away the dignity / the respect and afterwards ppl react less if something unjust happens.

 

I should work and something in the posts (might have been the one you reacted to with the link...) 'provoked' my first interest, let me spend way too much time writing here instead.

My first post was a reaction to different posts, even if I formulated it mainly based on the white.... statement.

In my experience here are within the people able to remove something no alt-right people (but I am not aware about the POVs of all mods)

= not sure why it was removed, I thought a few hours back it might have been a bit too OT or maybe better in the general discussion / politic wherever thread (sometimes they at first hide and than later move posts).

Edited January 28, 2019 by terrestrial

[rukaio101]

3 hours ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

Highly likely an alt-righter took issue with what Moore said and removed it. 

Or, and call this a wild crazy guess, maybe the mods thought that a post by a forum member who has proven themselves on multiple occasions to be incapable of arguing in good faith on this subject, that was also clearly a barely concealed attempt to call all superhero movies (and by extension their fans) white supremacists through Moore's quote, to not really be appropriate for this forum.

 

Moore says a lot of crazy shit, not all of which is worth paying attention to. And while there are definitely interesting discussions and arguments that could be made about the history of the superhero genre and how it relates to race and the like, it's pretty clear to anyone with any experience on this forum that you don't have any actual interest in seriously debating that and just want to make a bunch of veiled passive-aggressive insults towards these movies and the people who enjoy them, coached under a thin veneer of faux academic pretense.

 

But yeah, I can't possibly imagine why anyone would not want to have to put up with that shit. Clearly it must all be the Nazis fault.

[TomCruiseTop]

2 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

who has proven themselves on multiple occasions to be incapable of arguing in good faith

More baseless accusations, don't you and ZeeSoh have a certain meeting you're supposed to be at? Or have I touched an alt-right nerve? 

[Panda]

31 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

Or, and call this a wild crazy guess, maybe the mods thought that a post by a forum member who has proven themselves on multiple occasions to be incapable of arguing in good faith on this subject, that was also clearly a barely concealed attempt to call all superhero movies (and by extension their fans) white supremacists through Moore's quote, to not really be appropriate for this forum.

 

Moore says a lot of crazy shit, not all of which is worth paying attention to. And while there are definitely interesting discussions and arguments that could be made about the history of the superhero genre and how it relates to race and the like, it's pretty clear to anyone with any experience on this forum that you don't have any actual interest in seriously debating that and just want to make a bunch of veiled passive-aggressive insults towards these movies and the people who enjoy them, coached under a thin veneer of faux academic pretense.

 

But yeah, I can't possibly imagine why anyone would not want to have to put up with that shit. Clearly it must all be the Nazis fault.

• Personal attack
• Boot licking
• Concern trolling

Is the_donald leaking? @JCS there is no reason to argue with these people they are trumpkins that cry at any attack on their safe spaces where you cannot question the obvious racist undertones of their favorite toys.

[IronJimbo]

era of cape flicks is over, anime cinema on the horizon

[YM!]

2 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

era of cape flicks is over, anime cinema on the horizon

My Hero Academia over 2 billie.

[IronJimbo]

10 minutes ago, YourMother the Edgelord said:

My Hero Academia over 2 billie.

If Jim directed maybe. Going to have save the big books for the top animes.

[robertman2]

Ngl, I'd kill for a badass well made DBZ movie. Just like take Freeza and parts of the Saiyan arc and you got a dope movie. 2 and 3 can be Cell/Android and Buu

[DeeCee]

Event Cinemas in Australia promoting all the big February films. 

 

Just received this email. 

 

“Thanks for visiting the cinema this Australia Day Long Weekend. We have loaded an $8* ticket offer on to your Cinebuzz account. 

This ticket can be used in February 2019 for any traditional session, or pay a little extra and upgrade to a Vmax or 3D session. 

There are lots of great movies now showing including COLD PURSUIT, WHAT MEN WANT and HAPPY DEATH DAY 2 U plus plenty more.”

[LaughingEvans]

Lads, they're comics.

 

The only meaningful way they can be written is to be character driven. And it ends there. 

If you inject politics in comics, it's going to be watered down politics. If you inject social commentary, it's going to be watered down social commentary, and it goes on. Whether Moore is completely right or not, he makes a valid point: If you take your morals from comic books, they're gonna be watered down morals.

 

I'm telling you all this as a person who loves comics and still reads them at 29.

 

 

[TomCruiseTop]

15 minutes ago, LaughingEvans said:

Whether Moore is completely right or not, he makes a valid point: If you take your morals from comic books, they're gonna be watered down morals.

A point too dangerous/offensive to avoid being censored and/or libeled. 

[LaughingEvans]

1 hour ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

A point too dangerous/offensive to avoid being censored and/or libeled. 

 

The truth is ugly, but I will take it over any beautiful lie. And I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Well then, if society prefers the lie from the truth, we're making our own beds, aren't we?

[GraceRandolph]

Daily reminder that the DCEU still remain losers and AquaBOMB won’t change a thing. Lmao at that Birds of Prey preview. A disaster!

[LordNox]

I think the opposite. Now that Snyder is out of the picture the main takeaway that WB will take from the success of Aquaman and the failure of the Snyder DCEU is that the general public wants dumb and fun superhero movies and rejected the gloomy Snyder movies. So expect future DCEU movies to be lighthearted movies with lots of quips and action and see the BO numbers expand like Aquaman. I think the era of Snyder flops is over.

[langer]

4 hours ago, LaughingEvans said:

Lads, they're comics.

 

The only meaningful way they can be written is to be character driven. And it ends there. 

If you inject politics in comics, it's going to be watered down politics. If you inject social commentary, it's going to be watered down social commentary, and it goes on. Whether Moore is completely right or not, he makes a valid point: If you take your morals from comic books, they're gonna be watered down morals.

 

I'm telling you all this as a person who loves comics and still reads them at 29.

 

 

QFT

[terrestrial]

4 hours ago, LaughingEvans said:

Lads, they're comics.

 

The only meaningful way they can be written is to be character driven. And it ends there. 

If you inject politics in comics, it's going to be watered down politics. If you inject social commentary, it's going to be watered down social commentary, and it goes on. Whether Moore is completely right or not, he makes a valid point: If you take your morals from comic books, they're gonna be watered down morals.

 

I'm telling you all this as a person who loves comics and still reads them at 29.

I have no problem with that, I only disagree with the earlier 100%-like formulations, and when the critique comes from someone I really see not in the same light like some here seem to do.

Watered down morals are not 'the goal is superior' (forgot the English term).

 

To critique without giving examples how to do better is not what I see as ~ productive/constructive. I think its not a good example to use in general and in my experience not why the majority of readers like to read them nor why the majority of the artists create them.

 

I simply think its questionable at best to demand something about the work of others per criticizing in that way, that the person demanding it never did himself with his work, and even worse, did the opposite.

 

Also:

why do ppl demand from movies seen by the GA things, that the society is not willing to stand up for? The ~ sole responsibility thing is IMHO also a bit at the limit. Do I want the morals like not-sexism , anti-racism... included? Absolutely. Can I demand them per focusing on an industry that the I am not working for? No.

Reactions... will get heard to a degree, but BO is what the cinema industry is about for the most part.

That one of the worst racists/sexists/... in the industry got pushed out as Marvel Studio boss was a reaction to BO & social media,.... reaction combo, the higher and higher climbing reputation as a money maker, not morally correctness. I feel sorry for the people working under him now in the TV section

 

Discussions, bringing up the injustices, the wrong 'traditions',... good and way more needed. Focusing on a questionable person / generalising / .... is in my POV counter-productive.

 

Bread and games is the direct translation we say here, what the Roman government did to quiet down the population, to be able to do as they please.

That we have since way longer than CBMs got to be so big. To criticise the CBMs for that is missing a lot.

 

(Please excuse if I formulated something strange, BOT seems to have had problems and I had to rewrite some passages, might have missed half senteces or... Fingers crossed this gets up)