The Hunger Games Franchise: What went so right (THG, CF) and then so wrong (MJ1, MJ2)

[MovieMan89]

I would still love to know why this thread exists when a WWW one for Spectre wasn't allowed? Each MJ movie will end up twice as profitable as Spectre (about 400-450m in profit for each vs 200-250m or so for Spectre). And speaking DOM, MJ2's big 20-25% admissions drop from its predecessor still isn't anywhere near Spectre's 40% admissions drop from Skyfall. Hell, even WW Spectre will have the bigger admissions and gross drop from its predecessor than MJ1 to MJ2's drop. So Spectre is the bigger WWW in literally every sense. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by MovieMan89

[John Marston]

4 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I would still love to know why this thread exists when a WWW one for Spectre wasn't allowed? Each MJ movie will end up twice as profitable as Spectre (about 400-450m in profit for each vs 200-250m or so for Spectre). And speaking DOM, MJ2's big 20-25% admissions drop from its predecessor still isn't anywhere near Spectre's 40% admissions drop from Skyfall. Hell, even WW Spectre will have the bigger admissions and gross drop from its predecessor than MJ1 to MJ2's drop. So Spectre is the bigger WWW in literally every sense. 

 

 

I actually agree 

[Goffe]

18 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I would still love to know why this thread exists when a WWW one for Spectre wasn't allowed? Each MJ movie will end up twice as profitable as Spectre (about 400-450m in profit for each vs 200-250m or so for Spectre). And speaking DOM, MJ2's big 20-25% admissions drop from its predecessor still isn't anywhere near Spectre's 40% admissions drop from Skyfall. Hell, even WW Spectre will have the bigger admissions and gross drop from its predecessor than MJ1 to MJ2's drop. So Spectre is the bigger WWW in literally every sense. 

 

Skyfall was What Went Right anomaly of James Bond franchise

 

MJ2 was What Went Wrong anomaly of THG franchise.

 

People were, more or less, expecting a drop from Skyfall. Spectre is doing what the other two Craig Bond movies did.

 

MJ2 was never expected to drop. Two THG movies (out of three) did more than 400m.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Goffe

[MovieMan89]

2 minutes ago, Goffe said:

Skyfall was What Went Right anomaly of James Bond franchise

 

MJ2 was What Went Wrong anomaly of THG franchise.

 

People were, more or less, expecting a drop from Skyfall. Spectre is doing what the other two Craig Bond movies did.

 

MJ2 was never expected to drop. Two THG movies (out of three) did more than 400m.

Fair enough I suppose. But I thought these threads were supposed to be about the facts, not the board expectations? And the facts heavily weigh in favor of MJ2 being the bigger success story than Spectre. 

[Warhorse]

What went wrong? The split up of the movies, combined with the fact that the last Hunger Games movie is going to be very depressing, being released at a time when people really don't want to be depressed. Or, thats where I think it went wrong. I was so disinterested in MJ1, and the book as a whole when reading it (it was very depressing to me, killed or bastardized all of my favorite characters save for maybe 2) I have no interest in seeing the last one. 

[Murgatroyd]

Another data point: my mom's reaction to seeing an ad for MJ2 today.

 

"I didn't like part 1, why would I want to go see part 2?"

[angeldelmito]

Lmao I made everybody at my Thanksgiving dinner watch Catching Fire. Now they wanna see the last one which they apparently didn't know came out yet. Better promotion than Lionsgate.

Edited November 28, 2015 by angeldelmito

[Klingo]

19 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Mockingjay ended up becoming a civil war between two equally dislikeable leaders in Snow and Coin.  Clearly the aim was to show war is hell and nobody wins but that doesn't really make for a compelling blockbuster.  In MJ2 they tried to make Katniss's arc a proxy for the games but in the end her actual efforts in the movie had little bearing on the out come of the final battle.

 

It simply concluded as 2 very different films from the first 2.  

No, what she did change the outcome. 

[Klingo]

2 hours ago, Harpospoke said:

 

I think wars are getting less gory as we go so the trend is toward the future being less gory.

 

The trenches in WW1 were a horror.  Gas attacks, horrible conditions.   And as Lord points out, Stalingrad was worse than anything we get now...you would definitely rather be deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan :

I just watched this about a month ago.   Appalling what happened there.   Highly recommended but be ready to be disturbed.

 

 

 

Nope, its getting easier to kill people.  You think of Stalingrad, but look at Syria and its effects of the war.  Its no different.  Chemical attacks are involved, bombings involved, people being tortured and executed in different ways.  Pilot recently getting shot while in parachute. 

[misafeco]

I made some research in the Most Anticipated thread.

THG was #2 behind TDKR (was #1 for a few weeks before that)

CF was clear #1 (holding it's place after Gravity's OW)

MJ1 was #5

MJ2 was #3

 

It's a small sample size, but it's clear that the GA rushed to see the first 2 movies and didn't really care for the final 2. Mockingjay isn't blockbuster material, but i still find it strange that MJ2 couldn't beat MJ1's OW.

[Harpospoke]

14 hours ago, Klingo said:

 

Nope, its getting easier to kill people.  You think of Stalingrad, but look at Syria and its effects of the war.  Its no different.  Chemical attacks are involved, bombings involved, people being tortured and executed in different ways.  Pilot recently getting shot while in parachute. 

"Easier to kill people" is equating to "less gory".   And aren't less and less people dying in wars over time?

 

Given a choice between being in the US army storming the beach at Normandy (See Saving Private Ryan) where 2400 soldiers died or being in the US army and deployed in the Middle East where it takes years to accumulate that kind of death toll, I know which one I'll choose.

[Klingo]

Just now, Harpospoke said:

"Easier to kill people" is equating to "less gory".   And aren't less and less people dying in wars over time?

 

Given a choice between being in the US army storming the beach at Normandy (See Saving Private Ryan) where 2400 soldiers died or being in the US army and deployed in the Middle East where it takes years to accumulate that kind of death toll, I know which one I'll choose.

Don't know if less people are dying since there hasn't been WW3.  So far in Syria more than 250,000 people died in a span of 4 years.  Thats just Syria alone.  Not even mention Iraq or Afghanistan or other conflicts going on around.  More easier to kill people is more gory not less.  It be like saying its easier to smash eggs which creates more mess.

[Jandrew]

Wait is Social Justice Water arguing sexism? Ahh, I missed that. Ah memories. Good times, good times.

[spizzer]

Here's a MAJOR contributor.  Shows!  Only 97100.  BOM lists shows for Fri/Sat/Sun, Friday is listed at 4600 which is incorrect, but Sat/Sun are at 33/30K so I went with the same figure for Friday (they don't include preview/midnight shows in that count).  

 

Here's MJ2's Fri-Sun show breakdown:

 

33000/33300/30800, 97100 total shows from Fri-Sun.  

 

Compare that to some previous openers for the pre-Thanksgiving weekend:

 

CF - 135,000

BD2 - 136,900

BD1 - 119,300

DH1 - 114,700

 

Unfortunately BOM didn't track the #s for MJ1.  THG however, had 134,300 shows.  MJ2 's running 28% behind in showtimes.  Part of this may be due to anticipated demand being lower, but it was also just a crowded market (ITO theater real estate, not gross).  I'm assuming MJ1 was sitting around the same amount of shows as CF/THG and without IMAX did 75-80% of their OW business.  I think this would probably have been much closer to MJ1 or matched it had it had the same level of showtimes, instead of barely topping Spectre (88000).

[TalismanRing]

On 11/27/2015, 5:39:13, Klingo said:

Don't know if less people are dying since there hasn't been WW3.  So far in Syria more than 250,000 people died in a span of 4 years.  Thats just Syria alone.  Not even mention Iraq or Afghanistan or other conflicts going on around.  More easier to kill people is more gory not less.  It be like saying its easier to smash eggs which creates more mess.

 

That's grotesque and approx 1% of Syria's 22m population

But the U.S. had a population of 31m during the American Civil War.  In a 4 year period there were 1.5 million military casualties.  620k dead, 400k captured/missing and another 480k wounded.   Those are the low estimates because sides could be bothered to take an official count.  Some believe military fatalities were closer to 850,000.  There were also approx 50,000 civilian fatalities from collateral damage, starvation and disease.

 

Suffice to say people have always been very effective at killing one another in mass numbers no matter the weaponry at hadn but the weaponry did tend to be gorier in the past.

 

Sieges and urban combat

This list includes sieges, as well as modern battles that were fought primarily in urban areas. Major military operations that included city fighting are listed below. Sieges and urban combat often include heavy civilian casualties, which are included in this list.

Siege	Conflict	Casualties	Year
Siege of Sidon	Phoenician rebellion against Persia	Over 40,000[1]	343 BC
Siege of Jerusalem	First Jewish–Roman War	~60,000 to 70,000[2]	70
Siege of Jerusalem	Roman–Persian Wars	~70,000 to 90,000[3]	614
Siege of Baghdad (1258)	Mongol conquests	250,000–2,100,000+ including civilians[4]	1258
Siege of Constantinople	Arab–Byzantine wars	130,000–170,000[5]	717–718
Siege of Jerusalem	First Crusade	~40,000[6]	1099
Siege of Baghdad	Mongol invasions	80,000[7]	1258
Siege of Tenochtitlan	Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire	~100,000 to 240,000[8][9]	1521
Siege of Rhodes	Ottoman wars in Europe	55,200[10]	1522
Great Siege of Malta	Ottoman wars in Europe	29,000[11]–40,000[12]	1565
Siege of Ulsan	Japanese invasions of Korea (1592–98)	20,000[13]	1597
Siege of La Rochelle	French Wars of Religion	Over 18,600[14]	1627–28
Sack of Magdeburg	Thirty Years' War	20,000[15]–25,000+[16]	1630
Second Siege of Zaragoza	Peninsular War	64,000[17]	1808–09
Siege of Vicksburg	American Civil War	19,000[17]	1863
Siege of Petersburg	American Civil War	70,000[18]	1864–65
Siege of Plevna	Russo-Turkish War	37,000[19]	1877
Siege of Port Arthur	Russo-Japanese War	100,000[20]	1904–05
Siege of Adrianople	First Balkan War	93,282, including captured[21]	1912–13
Battle of Taiyuan	Second Sino-Japanese War	130,000[22]	1937
Battle of Xinkou	Second Sino-Japanese War	200,000[23]	1937
Battle of Shanghai	Second Sino-Japanese War	400,000[24]	1937
Battle of Wuhan	Second Sino-Japanese War	540,000[25]	1938
First Battle of Changsha	Second Sino-Japanese War	80,000+[26]	1939
Battle of Nanchang	Second Sino-Japanese War	75,328[27]	1939
Siege of Odessa	World War II	133,813[28]	1941
Battle of South Shanxi	Second Sino-Japanese War	120,000+[29]	1941
Third Battle of Changsha	Second Sino-Japanese War	84,862 killed[30]	1942
Battle of Stalingrad	World War II	1,250,000[31]–1,798,619[32]	1942–43
Battle of Changde	Second Sino-Japanese War	100,000[33]	1943
Battle of West Hubei	Second Sino-Japanese War	115,830[34]	1943
Siege of Leningrad	World War II	1,117,000[35][36] – 4,500,000[37]	1941–44
Warsaw Uprising	World War II	200,000+ killed[38]	1944
Siege of Budapest	World War II	422,000[39]	1944–45
Battle of Berlin	World War II	1,298,745[40][41]	1945
Siege of Changchun	Chinese Civil War	425,000[42]	1948[43]
Battle of Kiev	World War II	700,544[44]	1941
Battle of Manila	World War II	100,000–500,000[45][46][47][48]	1945
Siege of Sarajevo	Bosnian War	12,000 killed, with 50,000 wounded[49][50]	1992–96
Battle of Aleppo	Syrian Civil War	more than 24,000 killed[51]	2012-ongoing

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

War	Deaths	Date	Location	Notes
World War II	60,000,000–85,000,000	1939–1945	Worldwide	see World War II casualties
Mongol conquests	40,000,000–70,000,000	1206–1324	Eurasia	[1][2][3][4]
Taiping Rebellion	20,000,000–100,000,000	1850–1864	China	[5] – may be underestimated
Three Kingdoms War	36,000,000–40,000,000	184–280	China	[6][7]
An Lushan Rebellion	13,000,000–36,000,000	755–763	China	[8] – may be underestimated
Second Sino-Japanese War	25,000,000	1937–1945	China	[9] – Part of World War II
Qing dynasty conquest of Ming Dynasty	25,000,000	1616–1662	China	[10]
World War I/Great War	20,000,000	1914–1918	Europe	see World War I casualties
Chinese Civil War	8,000,000	1927–1949	China	[15]
Conquests of Tamerlane	7,000,000–20,000,000	1370–1405	Eurasia	[16][17]
Dungan Revolt	8,000,000–12,000,000	1862-1877	China
Russian Civil War and Foreign Intervention	5,000,000–9,000,000	1917–1922	Russia	[18]
Napoleonic Wars	3,500,000–6,000,000	1803–1815	Europe	see Napoleonic Wars casualties
Thirty Years' War	3,000,000–11,500,000	1618–1648	Europe	[19]
Second Congo War/Great War of Africa	2,500,000–5,400,000	1998–2003	Central Africa	[20][21][22][23]
Goguryeo-Sui War	2,000,000 At Least	598–614	Korea	[24] – Korean(Goguryeo) and civilian casualties are not included.
French Wars of Religion	2,000,000–4,000,000	1562–1598	France	[25] – also known as Huguenot Wars
Shaka's conquests	2,000,000	1816–1828	South Africa	[26]
Korean War	1,200,000	1950–1953	Korea	[27]
Conquests of Mehmed II 'the Conqueror'	873,000	1451–1481	Eurasia	[28] – may either be underestimated or overestimated
Vietnam War/Second Indochina War	800,000–3,800,000	1955–1975	Vietnam	[28][29][30]
Mexican Revolution	1,000,000–2,000,000	1910–1920	Mexico	[31]
Siege of Jerusalem	1,100,000	73	Middle East
Iran–Iraq War/First Persian Gulf War	1,000,000	1980–1988	Middle East	[32]
Japanese invasions of Korea	1,000,000	1592–1598	Korea	[33]
Biafra War	1,000,000	1967–1970	Nigeria
Soviet war in Afghanistan	957,865–1,622,865	1979–1989	Afghanistan	[34][35][36]
Seven Years' War	868,000–1,400,000	1756–1763	Europe	[37][38]