Frozen Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 7 minutes ago, Heat Vision said: People saying Kylo isn't redeemable because he killed Han Solo. Vader did a lot worse than him and he returned to the light. Star Wars is all about redemption. There is zero chance he isn't redeemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baumer Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 If Han comes back itll be because they offered ford 100 million and they are void of ideas. Hes dead. He ain't coming back. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 28 minutes ago, Heat Vision said: People saying Kylo isn't redeemable because he killed Han Solo. Vader did a lot worse than him and he returned to the light. But Vader drew the line at his family. Ren crossed it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmandeep Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 3 minutes ago, 4815162342 said: But Vader drew the line at his family. Ren crossed it. Hmm I think that is valid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Redemption could happen, but killing your father, who is Han Solo, is as close to a textbook "kick the puppy" moment as you can get. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klingo Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Just now, Baumer Fett said: If Han comes back itll be because they offered ford 100 million and they are void of ideas. Hes dead. He ain't coming back. Sure he will come back. Finn will use the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Manager Water Bottle Posted December 26, 2015 Community Manager Share Posted December 26, 2015 6 hours ago, Harpospoke said: You guys seem really sure and I have no idea why...other than "Ford doesn't want to do it any more". Any writer can easily save him. Lots of people got off that thing before it blew. It's not like it blew up right away. I'll keep the option open thank you very much. Seen this trick too many times to be fooled again. I'm not sure he's dead. $23 million seems like a lot for one movie. Plus we never once got to see the trio together. I don't think he would be heavily featured in the last two, but I think him turning up alive is not out of the question. Anyone can be brought back to life in a sci-fi fantasy story. He might appear in the other movies briefly in flashbacks but it's pretty well known that he's not the biggest fan of being in Star Wars and for Star Wars, $25 million isn't that much. Movie easily made that much money within a few hours of opening. He can come back to life but it comes at the risk of hurting TFA since it would 100% undermine it's emotional climax. The whole Kylo Ren's arc built up to that very moment and the finality of the moment is what gives it power. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straggler Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) I needed to take my criticism of this film to the spoiler area. I saw the Phantom Menance 4 times to support this franchise. But I will never see TFA again. Where to even begin? Luke comes off as a colossal douchebag (and probably a deadbeat dad) who stands by while billions are slaughtered. There are so many plot holes that you can drive a star destroyer through them. (Rey; Han just happening to find the Falcon after not being able to find it which just happened to be where Rey and Finn were escaping; the lightsaber just happening to be where Han and Rey just happened to land; a storm trooper magically going off program; the rebellion not knowing that the First Order had constructed an entire freaking terror planet so massive you could see it from space; the Republic sitting idly by despite mention of the Republic fleet until they are obliterated in a galactic genocide that has the emotional resonance of a fart in the wind, Poe disappearing and then mysteriously reappearing, etc.). And where to even begin with Rey. Just introduce her as a Jedi knight and be done with it. No Luke hero journey here. She is an expert at everything, never shows any vulnerability, and might as well have been made out of cardboard. An avatar, not a person. You rooted for Luke because he was this callow but talented youth thrust into a galactic struggle against overwhelming odds and he grows into a hero. But with Rey screw that. She is a pilot and a marksman and a mechanic and a Force expert and a light saber duelist. She could probably do your taxes too. And what the hell with the First Order? You build your whole planet into a weapon but god forbid we protect the freaking oscillator that is so big you can see it from space? Instead it gets taken out by four rebels on foot and a squadron of tie-fighters. The keystone cops of the Dark Side. Thank god for Harrison Ford or this would have been worse than Attack of the Clones. Edited December 26, 2015 by straggler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayhawk the Hutt Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 http://www.vox.com/2015/12/26/10664834/star-force-awakens-derivative HOT TAKE INCOMING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 3 hours ago, 4815162342 said: But Vader drew the line at his family. Ren crossed it. Padme was not his family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Frozen said: Padme was not his family? Half-heartedly Force Choking a family member and then stopping when you realize it's a bad idea (all in the heat of a moment) ain't the same as shoving a saber into the gut of your father in a pre-meditated act. Edited December 26, 2015 by 4815162342 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Just now, 4815162342 said: Half-heartedly Force Choking a family member and then stopping when you realize it's a bad idea (all in the heat of a moment) ain't the same as shoving a saber into the gut of your father in a pre-meditated act. He choked her until she was unconscious and she was pregnant with his twins at the time. Ultimately this led to her death and could have killed both children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Just now, Frozen said: Ultimately this led to her death Except it didn't. She died because she felt like it, as the doctor droid said in the movie. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 1 minute ago, 4815162342 said: Except it didn't. She died because she felt like it, as the doctor droid said in the movie. She felt like it because she knew her husband had crossed the line after trying to kill her and their children. She knew what he had become and lost the will to live. So ultimately that act did lead to her death, and she was already in bad shape from the choking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moviesRus Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 3 minutes ago, 4815162342 said: Except it didn't. She died because she felt like it, as the doctor droid said in the movie. Yeah they specifically said there was nothing wrong with her medically, she just lost the will to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 And still, Ren killing Han was pre-meditated. He had been considering it and wanting to do it for a long time. Anakin choking Padme was spontaneous and an unplanned/unthought act immediately after seeing Obi-Wan show up. The context of the situation matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 6 minutes ago, 4815162342 said: And still, Ren killing Han was pre-meditated. He had been considering it and wanting to do it for a long time. Anakin choking Padme was spontaneous and an unplanned/unthought act immediately after seeing Obi-Wan show up. The context of the situation matters. Not really. It's an act of domestic violence that led to her losing the will to live. And this was after Anakin slaughtered a bunch of kids. But for some reason SW doesn't think people are responsible for what they do when under the influence of the dark side. Anakin was redeemed. If people don't think Kylo will be, I think they are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderByte Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 They paid a huge fraction of the budget just in paying Ford alone. They aren't bringing him back simply on a cost basis, let alone him not wanting to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpospoke Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 7 hours ago, Phil in the Blank said: We didnt see Han's body but we did see a force sensitive Leia react when it happened. He is dead Jim. I'm not even a writer and I've already covered that one without any problem at all. We definitely saw her react. But to what? Han's "death" or Ben's act of turning to the dark side? The only other time we've seen her "sense" anything it was from another Force user (Luke). Writing your way out of this stuff when you don't see the body is easy. 4 hours ago, Baumer Fett said: If Han comes back itll be because they offered ford 100 million and they are void of ideas. Hes dead. He ain't coming back. You just outlined a way Han could come back which makes it a possibility. I can't help hearing Yoda in my head when I see someone being so sure. "So certain are you?" Not sure what all the certainty is based on. Ignoring countless examples in movie history makes no sense to me. If it happens I guess I'll be the only one who isn't surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4815162342 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) Harpo, so if Mace Windu comes back you'll be fine with that right? We never see him die and his body falls out of sight, so he could easily have been laying low for 50 years waiting to wreck some shit. We also never see Grand Moff Tarkin die. Sure we see him on the Death Star and a second later in the film the Death Star blows up, but we never see his body get torched/blown up! That shot could have been hours later and he could have escaped in the gap! Edited December 26, 2015 by 4815162342 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
