Star Wars The Force Awakens (2015)

[xanamanax]

The film showed no training whatsoever for Rey. 

 

The Force doesn't make you good with a light saber. Being good with a weapon like that requires training. It would certainly help her reflexes with defensive moves. But it wouldn't give her any special knowledge or tactics on how to go on the offensive. When it comes to swordplay, a highly skilled fighter will defeat a novice. If an early scene with her fighting had shown her picking up something and using it competently as a sword, then I could believe it, with the force making her better.

[Kalo]

21 minutes ago, xanamanax said:

The film showed no training whatsoever for Rey. 

 

The Force doesn't make you good with a light saber. Being good with a weapon like that requires training. It would certainly help her reflexes with defensive moves. But it wouldn't give her any special knowledge or tactics on how to go on the offensive. When it comes to swordplay, a highly skilled fighter will defeat a novice. If an early scene with her fighting had shown her picking up something and using it competently as a sword, then I could believe it, with the force making her better.

 

Rey wasn't very skilled with a Lightsaber, her style was sloppy and choppy, but she was used to scavenging huge star destroyers and surviving on a desert, so she was very athletic and used the environment against Kylo - who if he was honing in on the darkside would have been mortally wounded, and was in no state to fight emotionally or physically. also remember she carried the staff around a lot and knew how to use it so she already had some skill with melee weapons, the way she stabbed it showed she was used to something with a double blade. my theory is when she builds her own lightsaber it will be double bladed. probably from parts of the staff.

[75Live]

just saw this online and thought I drop it here.  discuss  

 

“Kylo Ren is a pussy. He lost to two noobs with no training whatsoever.”

reylofeels:

reylo4life:

shaochilong-maortuensis:

Excuse me?

EXCUSE ME?!

Did you not pay attention to the movie AT ALL?!

He got shot in the fucking stomach with a bigass crossbow. This is the same fucking crossbow that was sending Stormtroopers flying back 20 feet and killing them instantly.

This is the same fucking crossbow that we saw in Return of the Jedi that was powerful enough to destroy a small vehicle with one shot.

Basically, anything that gets shot with Chewbacca’s bowcaster gets blown into motherfucking oblivion.

This piece of shit is so powerful that instead of “Wookiee bowcaster”, we should call it “ The fuck you gun”.

But what happens when Kylo Ren gets shot with it?

He kneels down. Goes “Ouch”, then he gets the fuck up and goes on looking for a few bitches.

He is probably losing pints of blood from that wound, and he uses the force to keep his insides from spilling out. Then he goes on walking and pulls out his lightsaber and gets ready to fight.

How fucking badass is that? 
He just walked off a shot from Chewbacca’s OP bowcaster.

Not only that. He still manages to take on Finn and Rey by himself. Finn was a former Stormtrooper who trained in close-quarters combat with a riot control baton, and Rey spent 19 years on Jakku defending herself with a metal staff 
Don’t fucking tell me that Rey and Finn never had training

Then what happens?

It takes him no less than a minute to nearly kill Finn. After being shot with the unholy lovechild of a 12-gauge shotgun, a mortar launcher, and a crossbow, Kylo Ren still manages to get up and kick someone’s ass.

Then he gets ready for round two. 
He leaves Finn lying half-dead on the ground and gets ready to fight Rey.

Did you not hear Kylo Ren say that he was keeping Rey alive because he wanted to train her? Could it be that he’s actually going easy on her?

Only reason Rey beat Kylo was because Rey was never shot with Chewbacca’s fuck-you gun.

And on Takodana, when Kylo Ren goes into the forest looking for Rey, he manages to block every single shot she fires at him and then he force-paralyzes her with a single gesture.

And before this, he sensed Poe Dameron preparing to fire at him, and he just catches the blaster bolt in mid air and manages to keep it floating while walking around having a conversation. 
When was the last time we say a force-user do that? Never. 
Not even Darth Vader or Yoda can do that.

Kylo Ren is not a pussy.

Kylo Ren is a fucking beast.

[baumer]

Fuckin A 75...fuckin A!

 

I'm seriously stunned that there are people who still don't get that Rey has been trained before.  It's so clear to me and so many others.  

[xanamanax]

When they showed her memory of being left behind on Jakku, wasn't she a small child? So either her memory is wrong or Luke trained her when she was extremely young. At such a young age, she would have received minimal training with a light saber and the time since would have diminished any skills or knowledge she had. Either way is pure speculation and not based on anything shown in the movie. 

[baumer]

14 minutes ago, xanamanax said:

When they showed her memory of being left behind on Jakku, wasn't she a small child? So either her memory is wrong or Luke trained her when she was extremely young. At such a young age, she would have received minimal training with a light saber and the time since would have diminished any skills or knowledge she had. Either way is pure speculation and not based on anything shown in the movie. 

 

Then you clearly forget the prequels and Empire Strikes Back.

 

Mace Windu when asked by Qui Gon if they are going to train Anakin, "No. He's far too old."

 

Yoda in Empire. "He's too old to start the training."  This was about Luke.

 

In the prequels, the younglings were all about Rey's age.  And if Rey was trained by her father, it would make sense that she is a little more in tune with the force as she is the direct descendant of Luke, the last remaining Jedi.  So she is far from too young.

[xanamanax]

15 minutes ago, Baumer Fett said:

 

Then you clearly forget the prequels and Empire Strikes Back.

 

Mace Windu when asked by Qui Gon if they are going to train Anakin, "No. He's far too old."

 

Yoda in Empire. "He's too old to start the training."  This was about Luke.

 

In the prequels, the younglings were all about Rey's age.  And if Rey was trained by her father, it would make sense that she is a little more in tune with the force as she is the direct descendant of Luke, the last remaining Jedi.  So she is far from too young.

 

Yes, the younglings would have been Rey's age. My point is that they did not receive any extensive training with light sabers. They were shown using the same ball that Luke used in ANH. That doesn't prepare you for a fight, it's only for defensive moves and to learn to feel the Force. From the time she would have trained as a young girl to the present, her knowledge and skills, as limited as they would have been, would have diminished from lack of continued training. Even if the Force jogged her subconscious, she wouldn't have known enough about using a light saber to defeat someone with Kylo's training. He was certainly no master, but he's had training.

[baumer]

None of the younglings were Luke's daughter.  

[baumer]

I just think you are asking for too much to be spelled out for you.  You just have to wait and see what happens in the next film.  But put it this way....I am 99.96% sure she has had training.  I might have read a discarded part of the script...or something.

[AndyLL]

25 minutes ago, xanamanax said:

 

Yes, the younglings would have been Rey's age. My point is that they did not receive any extensive training with light sabers. T

 

Rey was extremely untrained with the light saber during the 1st part of the fight.  She's basically only 'jabbing' with it and holding it up to defend herself.

 

It was only after she 'let the force in' that she was able to fight properly.

 

I thought they made it abundantly clear that it was only the force that made her skilled.

 

I disagree with Baumer that she is previously trained.

 

She's a Skywalker.  Like Luke and Anakin before her she can do amazing things with the force even when untrained.

[xanamanax]

If she's a Skywalker, well so is Ren. He's Leia's son. So he should be extremely strong with the Force as well. Force with training should beat Force without training. 

[AndyLL]

32 minutes ago, xanamanax said:

If she's a Skywalker, well so is Ren. He's Leia's son. So he should be extremely strong with the Force as well. Force with training should beat Force without training. 

 

And Vader, a fully trained Sith Load,  should have had zero issues handling Luke in all 3 movies.

 

I feel Rey is being held to a different standard then either Luke or Anakin were.

[xanamanax]

3 minutes ago, AndyLL said:

 

And Vader, a fully trained Sith Load,  should have had zero issues handling Luke in all 3 movies.

 

I feel Rey is being held to a different standard then either Luke or Anakin were.

 

In ANH, Luke did not fight with Vader.

 

In ESB, Luke got his ass kicked by Vader.

 

In ROTJ, Luke was trained when he fought Vader and defeated him only when he tapped into the Dark Side.

 

You could make a case that Rey tapped into the Dark Side, but even you believe she had no training.

[AndyLL]

9 minutes ago, xanamanax said:

 

In ANH, Luke did not fight with Vader.

 

 

Using the force... he was able to evade Vaders Tie long enough for Solo to help out.  Vader speaks of it.

 

Using the force... he took an x-wing that he had never flown before and destroyed the death star.

 

9 minutes ago, xanamanax said:

In ESB, Luke got his ass kicked by Vader.

 

 

After a few days with the puppet he was able to hold his own against the most powerful Sith load who had had 30 years of training with real jedi and siths

 

9 minutes ago, xanamanax said:

In ROTJ, Luke was trained when he fought Vader and defeated him only when he tapped into the Dark Side.

 

 

He was no more trained than in ESB.  And again... in Tatooine he was able to use the force to defeat the Hut and again to default the most powerful Sith to ever live.

 

You don't need training to use the force.  They mention over and over in the movies that the force will guide you in what you need to do.

 

 

 

[xanamanax]

29 minutes ago, AndyLL said:

 

Using the force... he was able to evade Vaders Tie long enough for Solo to help out.  Vader speaks of it.

 

Using the force... he took an x-wing that he had never flown before and destroyed the death star.

 

 

After a few days with the puppet he was able to hold his own against the most powerful Sith load who had had 30 years of training with real jedi and siths

 

 

He was no more trained than in ESB.  And again... in Tatooine he was able to use the force to defeat the Hut and again to default the most powerful Sith to ever live.

 

You don't need training to use the force.  They mention over and over in the movies that the force will guide you in what you need to do.

 

 

 

 

You do need training to use the Force. What do you think the younglings were there for? Or what any padowan was doing? It wasn't for regular schooling. It was to learn how to use the Force. Yes, the Force guides and helps you. But it can't give you abilities or knowledge you don't already have. Luke knew how to fly stuff. The X-wing was similar to what he flew back on Tatooine. He knew how to shoot with the fighter. The Force helped him be better. Luke had some training when he dueled with Vader in ESB. In the beginning, Vader was just toying with him. And when he wanted to, he overpowered Luke with the greatest of ease. In ROTJ, a more mature Luke was better able to handle himself. But he was losing that fight until he tapped into the Dark Side.

[ladyevenstar22]

isn't it nice how this film is fueling endless discussions since 1977 lol , people will still be bitching about every frame next century lol 

[Raising Citizen Kane]

Listen, I think I understand the support and "love" this movie is garnering. 

Star Wars is a cross generational phenom, and holds a place in many peoples childhoods, adolescence and adulthood. 

Star Wars: The Commerce Awakens....uh, I mean The Force Awakens, has made not soon to be defeated box office. It's a hit. 

 

But does that mean it's really very good? 

I don't think so. 

 

It strikes me very much as a product filtered through a focus group strainer. It's a little bit of everything, to make everyone happy. But it takes no risks with characters or especially story telling. Really? Let's destroy the "Death Planet"? When your own characters within the movie itself are saying things like it's been done before? It's been done too much. 

 

It struck me like going to a 40 year High School reunion. Hey, there's the old car we use to own (Millenium Falcon)....and there's old friends....

And that's OK....but come on? Once you divorce yourself from the warm fuzzies of seeing old friends, you're left with the remaining plot and story. Which IMO just wasn't very good. Way too much " A New Hope" repackaged. 

 

Symbolically it came down to this for me. Darth Vader (in the day) he wore his helmet because he HAD to. Because of events he lived through and survived, that had caused physical and mental damage and scars. We learned about them as the story was told. It was real. Kylo Ren? Evidently wears the helmet because? Helps with mild case of asthma? Darth fanboy salute? As Han say's.....take it off, you don't NEED it. So much that was attempting to be "New" in The Force Awakens, simply seemed like watered down versions of what was better-Old. 

 

Is this movie horrible? No. Again, it's designed nearly perfectly for success. But despite it's enormous popularity can I grade it much higher than just being "Satisfactory"...not really. 

 

At best for me? It was a satisfactory restart of the movie franchise, and actually one that left me slightly more disappointed than enthusiastic.  

[4815162342]

4 hours ago, AndyLL said:

 

After a few days with the puppet he was able to hold his own against the most powerful Sith load who had had 30 years of training with real jedi and siths

 

 

 

 

At no point was Luke holding his own. Vader was either dominating him or toying with him the entire time.

[Blankments]

Jakku chase in IMAX was pretty amazing, but I wish JJ had filmed either the assault on Maz or the stuff after the bridge scene in IMAX, it looked epic.

 

I also think it's funny the biggest flaw of the movie has to do with JJ being a fanboy of the Raid of all things. Rathar scene should be cut and replaced with dialogue.

[CoolioD1]

Maybe the biggest flaw is that JJ isn't enough of a fan of the raid and what's the point of those dudes being there if you're not gonna give them a fight scene? Like if they just randomly busted out lightsabers for even a scene that was totally irrelevant NO ONE would have a problem with it. no one.

Edited January 7, 2016 by CoolioD1