Star Wars The Force Awakens (2015)

[Eastwood47]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2015‎ ‎6‎:‎46‎:‎38‎, rukaio101 said:

I'm not going to pretend that TFA doesn't share a lot of story beats with ANH (although I think a lot of people are blowing it all out of proportion and are severely underplaying just how much ANH stole from other stuff (including basic storytelling formula)) but quite a few details of that are still fairly wrong. Also I enjoyed how that retelling removed Finn's character entirely. God knows he wasn't a deuteragonist or anything.

 

Basically, if you're going to come up with some bullshit plot rewrite that misses the point, at least have the decency to get the plot right.

You missed the headline that says in bold type "GLIB FACIMILE". The point is very well illustrated. And no where is that better stated in the plot than with Han's token death. We have a hero that has been a part of movie icon status for nearly 40 years and his death is not the result of heroic gestures to save friends or allies, but merely a mindless and completely out of character decision to naively stand in front of man who was clearly beyond a dad-son chat. It was an abomination in script writing. It was simply there to stay in lockstep with the original beat of A New Hope. I wouldn't call this a homage so much as straight out plagiarism. Lucas must be proud as hell right now for selling the franchise. Now he gets to sit back and watch scores of fans pound another director for what? Imitating him!! That has to be sweet revenge and satisfaction where he stands.

[BiffMan]

Just watched it for the 2nd time. Daisy Ridley. Holy crap. Going calm in the middle of a saber duel... Epic. Just... Wow. 

[Jawa]

As a big Star Wars fan, I was pleased with The Force Awakens. The new characters were very good and I look forward to how they are developed in future films. I could heap praise on this film all day, but I think it's all been said. I enjoyed TFA a lot and plan to see it again, but am I the only one who thought it was way more similar to ANH than TPM was? Like beat for beat it was almost the same.

 

Maybe it's because I grew up with all six films, but I miss Lucas. Even though the prequels were cheesy at parts, I thought they had their own unique charm. Not to say TFA doesn't, but it's pretty obvious that Lucas didn't write or direct. Personally, I think we all shit on Lucas too much. But hey, handing off the reins to the next generation and all that. I'm looking forward to seeing where this trilogy goes.

[Darth Homer]

58 minutes ago, Jawa said:

Maybe it's because I grew up with all six films, but I miss Lucas. Even though the prequels were cheesy at parts, I thought they had their own unique charm. Not to say TFA doesn't, but it's pretty obvious that Lucas didn't write or direct. Personally, I think we all shit on Lucas too much. But hey, handing off the reins to the next generation and all that. I'm looking forward to seeing where this trilogy goes.

I missed Lucas too. They really should have at least used his story for TFA, and it's painfully obvious that JJ and Kasdan went off on their own path and didn't really know what they were doing, plot-wise (probably not helped by having to rush to meet Disney's mandated release). The funny thing is that, as a filmmaker, JJ is good in the areas where Lucas fails (writing believable and witty characters, directing actors, using CGI sparingly) but is weak in the areas where Lucas excels (story, world-building, Saturday Matinee serial type action). If TFA had been a collaboration utilising the strengths of both of them (much like ESB played to both Kershner and Lucas's strengths) then I think it would have been something really special instead of just a better than average Star Wars film.

[antovolk]

4:30am - some thoughts:

Yes, predictable and not exactly original - but basically it's Star Wars' ST09 but better and this time in the existing story - introducing the universe to today's generation and passing the torch as it were. So damn enjoyable to watch.

Standouts: Ridley, Driver, BB8 (!!!!!!). Too little Isaac and Christie. Honorable mention to Gleeson's and Serkis', especially the former's, epic scenery chewing.

Crowd reactions: apart from small claps at BBFC card before the film started....nothing.

some gasps at Rey using Force for the first time.

IMAX Laser 3D was incredible - best 3D I've seen. I completely understand why JJ prefers this to IMAX 70mm 2D. Combo of laser fixing usual brightness/colour/ghosting issues, great 3D in the film itself and bigger screen (generally 3D is much less distracting and more immersive in IMAX). The one native IMAX scene was awesome and tbh I'm not too fussed over aspect ratio at this theatre not being the full 1.44:1as you still get the same effect due to the sheer size of the thing.

Trailers: ST Beyond and Creed and In the Heart of the Sea in regular 2D, Deadpool green band in IMAX 2D. Shame STB was only new trailer but, and I know this is nitpicky, incredibly disappointed over lack of BvS as 1. I know for a fact WB sent it to theatres and 2. native IMAX footage in expanded aspect ratio. The only other trailer in recent memory that had that was that Interstellar IMAX trailer. Would've been amazing to see it. Gonna try sorting something out in the morning.....

Some other spoilery things:

basically - Luke = Sequel Trilogy's Yoda, Snoke is obviously ST's Emperor and....not expecting the original cast or droids to show up again in Eps 8 and 9 apart from Hamill and maaaaaaybe Fisher?

Anyway 9/10, bravo JJ. More thoughts tomorrow.

[Claire of Themyscira]

7 hours ago, rukaio101 said:

I think you're exaggerating quite a bit there. Especially calling her a 'great' pilot. She certainly knows how to fly, but she never shows herself to be particularly outstanding at it. She nearly crashed the Millenium Falcon about 5 times when she first flew it. At best, the most impressive stunt she did was that jaunt through the Star Destroyer, but the Tie Fighter seemed able to follow her just fine. She's certainly no Poe and indeed I'd even say Luke in ANH was probably a much better pilot. Same goes for her being a 'great' fighter. She isn't exactly perfect at that either. Her only real successful fights were those two mooks who tried to grab BB-8 (who she struggled against) and the final battle with Kylo Ren which started with her being thrown into a tree and knocked unconscious and, when she got up, she got knocked about until she 'let the Force in' so to speak.

 

As for the mechanic/force stuff, yes she's great at both of those, but it's understandable, the former because her job is scavenging useful machinery, hence she needs to know how it works (and even then she fucks up by releasing the tentacle beasts) and the latter because... well... she's the main Jedi of the movie. Did you really go in thinking they were going to make the main Jedi (regardless of whether it was Finn or Rey) incredibly weak with the Force? Also, being a Mary Sue is more than 'being good at quite a lot of stuff'. Rey has her flaws. The big one, obviously, being her trusting insistence that her family will return for her (despite it being clear that's not going to be the case) and the inner conflict that creates when given the chance to go off planet and do the things she's always dreamed. But even then you have subtler flaws like her occasional abrasiveness and her ignorance of a lot of things outside of Jakku, compared to Finn and Han. They're not spelt out for the audience but they are there. 

 

I will agree she's not exactly the most outstandingly complex character in blockbuster history (although I'd argue the same about the original ANH trio) but she has her layers and Ridley's performance definitely boosts the character. And indeed, the simple fact that we have a female protagonist in a blockbuster period inherently makes her more interesting considering how rare those are (and yes, I know she's technically a deuteragonist with Finn, but we all know who the real main out of those two is).

 

Again, not saying she's a perfect character, but she's not.... perfect. If that makes sense.

TELL THEM, BABE. TELL THEM, SIS. SHOW THEM THE LIGHT.

 

[junkshop36]

Overall I give it an A-

 

Just under the OT. A little above ROTS(B) but well ahead of TPM and AOTC. 

 

Ridley, Boyega, Issac and Driver were all awesome in their roles. Would have like a little more Poe. Rey and Finn's interactions with each other was great. Loved the scene with Finn and BB8 when they give each other a thumbs up lol. 

 

Ford brought that old magic back to the screen. That was Han Solo on screen, not Harrison Ford. 

 

The movie was way more humorous than I thought it would be and it worked perfectly; even with Kylo Ren. Loved it when he was in the room destroying shit and the two storm troopers were like, ummm....we're out lol. 

 

The action was quite good, especially the early Falcan chase, the attack on Maz's castle and the duel at the end. I liked what was going on on the ground at the end more than what was happening in the sky. When Rey force pulled the saber from Kylo I was like, HELL YEA!! Get him Rey!!

 

Sure, it wasn't perfect. I thought the story, overall, was ok but nothing great. The attack on the planet/base was too similar to ANH. 

 

The early freighter scene just after Han and Chewie find them felt like filler and didn't really do much to further the story. 

 

The one glaring problem I had was the explanation for what was happening in the galaxy at the time regarding the Republic and how they decided to deal with the First Order. So, instead of building up an army and taking on the FO themselves, they let this small resistance gather together with a tiny ass army and what seems like a couple dozen X-wing fighters, take on this giant evil army. It just felt off. 

 

Orher than that, I loved pretty much every thing else. Highly looking forward to episode 8. 

[theultimatebiu]

Rey wasn't a bad character, just her development was so fast it actually didn't help me warm to her. She came across a little too perfect. She was pretty much a Jedi by the end of the movie (something I always thought was meant to be difficult).

 

 

[Hatebox]

9 hours ago, rukaio101 said:

I think you're exaggerating quite a bit there. Especially calling her a 'great' pilot. She certainly knows how to fly, but she never shows herself to be particularly outstanding at it. [snip]

 

I won't quote your whole post to save space, but the Falcon scene demonstrated beyond doubt that, even by SW standards, she's a great pilot. I don't know how that scene could be interpreted any other way given the things she flew it through and the enemies she was up against. And yes, she's without at doubt a very capable mechanic - one mess-up with the tentacle monster thing doesn't change all that. The film goes out of its way to demonstrate how great she is with machinery time and again.

 

As for her other main 'flaw' of wanting to stay on her planet, that struck me as just an understandable longing for family - the audience knows she has a grander fate, but she doesn't. And there's barely any conflict anyway because it's brought up and resolved in a 15 minute window (the beginning and end of the tavern scene). It's not a fundamental character flaw like Finn being duplicitous or Han being a rogue.

 

I get that the film doesn't really have a lot of time for in depth character studies but her flawlessness did stop me connecting fully with her and I think it's something they should address in sequels. Maybe she becomes too powerful too fast?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2015 by Hatebox

[DeeCee]

11 hours ago, filmlover said:

Daisy Ridley (who I am positive is Keira Knightley's long lost twin sister) 

I suspect that after a tough day at the office slaughtering younglings Anakin came home one night and slept with the wrong Amidala. 

[glassfairy]

Well, i've seen worse movies... B-

[baumer]

If you think Ridley was weak, you know very little about acting.  I'm no expert either but she nailed her role.  Oscar worthy imo.

[baumer]

I can just imagine the review of Empire from some of you who want all the answers now:

 

"How could Vader be Luke's dad?  They never explained that at all."

 

Holy shit guys, that's why there's three movies.  

[ddddeeee]

1 hour ago, Baumer Fett said:

If you think Ridley was weak, you know very little about acting.  

I loved her in the movie too but I feel there are 1000s of baumer 'everyone has different opinions' posts I could find and quote here.

[rukaio101]

2 hours ago, Hatebox said:

 

I won't quote your whole post to save space, but the Falcon scene demonstrated beyond doubt that, even by SW standards, she's a great pilot. I don't know how that scene could be interpreted any other way given the things she flew it through and the enemies she was up against.

The enemies she was up against? You mean two mook Tie Fighter pilots (that are usually shot down in the dozens)? Yes, truly she must be an amazing pilot to barely triumph over them. Hell, Poe shoots down about 6 in one tracking shot.

 

And, as I pointed out, the Tie Fighter chasing her was able to follow most of her stunts with relative ease. If she's supposed to be a 'great pilot even by SW standards' what does that make that guy? Honestly, they barely only took him out with a risky maneuver that I, at least, got the impression was helped along by a little Force-induced luck.

 

Quote

And yes, she's without at doubt a very capable mechanic - one mess-up with the tentacle monster thing doesn't change all that. The film goes out of its way to demonstrate how great she is with machinery time and again.

Yeah, I didn't deny that she's very capable. I simply pointed out that the mess-up shows she's not a perfect mechanic. She still makes mistakes. And that mechanical ability never gets to the point of ridiculousness. She's fixing ships, not single-handedly hacking the Starkiller base. The most she gets to do with said ability in the climax is to open the doors to the modulator/thing they need to blow up.

 

Quote

As for her other main 'flaw' of wanting to stay on her planet, that struck me as just an understandable longing for family - the audience knows she has a grander fate, but she doesn't. And there's barely any conflict anyway because it's brought up and resolved in a 15 minute window (the beginning and end of the tavern scene). It's not a fundamental character flaw like Finn being duplicitous or Han being a rogue.

 

Um... it's really really not. It's certainly made more explicit in said 15 minute window, but it's something that's definitely been there from the very beginning of the film and subtly affects her actions. The chalk numbering on her wall counting days. The longing look at the departing spaceship (but the distinct lack of even trying to save money to get there). Her telling BB-8 that she's waiting for someone as well and they'll 'definitely come back'. Indeed, when she and Finn first leave Jakku, she wants to go back almost immediately. She refuses Han Solo's job offer (despite her obvious wish to go) because she thinks been gone too long anyway. Believe me, there are a lot of scenes where it's there. Just because they're not flashing it in neon lights until the tavern scene doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Also, you have a very odd definition of the word 'resolved'. She ends that 15 minutes by being knocked unconscious by Kylo Ren. Not exactly doing much to resolve her issues there. She doesn't resolve her issues with the force fully until she takes up the lightsaber in the climax to protect Finn. And even then, it's left open enough as to how much she's really over Jakku and how much that may get explored in the sequels.

[Goffe]

1 hour ago, Baumer Fett said:

Holy shit guys, that's why there's three movies.  

fuck that, this is not a TV show.

 

A movie should strive to stand on its own.

 

 Also, no one said they wanted all the answers? they want enough answers for the movie to feel complete, which in their minds it didn't. I literally laughed when, in the final lightsaber fight, Kylo and Rey were separated by the earthquake, like, it was the most shameless attempt to save things for future sequels.

 

That wasn't the problem I had with the movie, but I can easily understand people who think that way. The serialization of movies, the act o stretching a story that should have been just one movie into 3-∞ movies is an awful trend. It's just horrible. Reason why I hate 95% of the tv shows out there that aren't comedies, I can't really stand the amount of filler.

[Jawa]

1 hour ago, Goffe said:

fuck that, this is not a TV show.

 

A movie should strive to stand on its own.

 

 Also, no one said they wanted all the answers? they want enough answers for the movie to feel complete, which in their minds it didn't. I literally laughed when, in the final lightsaber fight, Kylo and Rey were separated by the earthquake, like, it was the most shameless attempt to save things for future sequels.

 

That wasn't the problem I had with the movie, but I can easily understand people who think that way. The serialization of movies, the act o stretching a story that should have been just one movie into 3-∞ movies is an awful trend. It's just horrible. Reason why I hate 95% of the tv shows out there that aren't comedies, I can't really stand the amount of filler.

 

I basically agree with this, but if any movie series should be able to get away with this, it's Star Wars. It is, after all, adventure serials from the 30s and 40s that Star Wars is originally based on.

[arpiaaaa]

Great, but not as good as the original(s)
Seeing again Han, Luke and Leia was fucking awesome.

B

[Ezen Baklattan]

Had some time to take it all in.

 

It's a really fun movie with a profound sense of character, but I feel like the issues can really just be traced to Abrams. Super 8 and STID suffered to varying extents due to his desire to harp the success and style of his inspirations, but thankfully, the "force" feels more natural here, and there's a pretty decent sense of how it all worked. The result is mostly really satisfying! A few character contrivances and unexplained miracles hold it back, but you already know from its existence that Honest Trailers and CinemaSins are going to town on this.

 

The star of the movie, however, is its characterization, primarily of the light side. Rey and Finn feel like real people, and they develop enough empathy and character to become some of the purest, non-cynical characters in a major blockbuster, which feels pretty welcome in this day and age. Poe Daramon and BB-8 were also not light on charm and delight, and it's fun to see Oscar Isaac play a good guy for once. Kylo Ren and Hux, not to mention the generic "not Thanos" feel more forced and uninteresting, however. Kylo has his moments, especially his hilarious tantrums, but with him being Han and Leia's son, it feels like such a contrived twist. Everything about him otherwise also felt like a generic villain, so I can't say I wasn't a bit disappointed in him, though Driver did a good job.

 

Overall, it works! Maybe a bit too derivative and plays it too safe at times, but it paves the way for potentially more interesting fare, especially from Edwards and Johnson in the near future. This works really well as a simple welcome back to the force, but here's to hoping the rest of the films have more.

 

B+

[somebody85]

8 hours ago, Spaghetti-3PO said:

Had some time to take it all in.

 

It's a really fun movie with a profound sense of character, but I feel like the issues can really just be traced to Abrams. Super 8 and STID suffered to varying extents due to his desire to harp the success and style of his inspirations, but thankfully, the "force" feels more natural here, and there's a pretty decent sense of how it all worked. The result is mostly really satisfying! A few character contrivances and unexplained miracles hold it back, but you already know from its existence that Honest Trailers and CinemaSins are going to town on this.

 

The star of the movie, however, is its characterization, primarily of the light side. Rey and Finn feel like real people, and they develop enough empathy and character to become some of the purest, non-cynical characters in a major blockbuster, which feels pretty welcome in this day and age. Poe Daramon and BB-8 were also not light on charm and delight, and it's fun to see Oscar Isaac play a good guy for once. Kylo Ren and Hux, not to mention the generic "not Thanos" feel more forced and uninteresting, however. Kylo has his moments, especially his hilarious tantrums, but with him being Han and Leia's son, it feels like such a contrived twist. Everything about him otherwise also felt like a generic villain, so I can't say I wasn't a bit disappointed in him, though Driver did a good job.

 

Overall, it works! Maybe a bit too derivative and plays it too safe at times, but it paves the way for potentially more interesting fare, especially from Edwards and Johnson in the near future. This works really well as a simple welcome back to the force, but here's to hoping the rest of the films have more.

 

B+

 

cinemasins ‏@cinemasins  2h2 hours ago

Finally saw Force Awakens. Really enjoyed it. Great performances, thrilling action, surprising humor. Solid foundation for a new trilogy.

Jeremy loved it. I'm sure he will still sin it for all that stuff but overall his reaction is very positive. Same reactions at Screen Junkies for honest trailers. The guys all did a non spoiler review of it and everyone of them loved it.

Currently discussing at https://www.reddit.com/r/CinemaSins/comments/3xn2hx/lets_talk_force_awakens_spoilers/

Edited December 21, 2015 by somebody85