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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice (2016)  

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  1. 1. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)



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5 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

Eisenberg for Golden Rasberry Award in Batman vs SUperman 

 

What a massive miscast. 


Best thing about Eisenberg in Batman Vs. Superman, is that it gave us some great gifs. 

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C-/D+

 

Pro:

Bruce Wayne is interesting and Alfred is well cast

Superman standing as a God is cool and you now remember Man of Steel with some fondness.

Gal Gadot as Wonder women, a badass :) 

 

 

Cons:

Eisenberg gives one of the worst Villain Roles Ever

Action seem to be designed by the mind of 8 year old kid high on crack at the end

Doomsday is strong and powerful but seems very forgettable

(yes a lot of cons just gotten started)

Amy Adams is so blah in this film, but I think she has nothing much to work with as...

Superman and Henry Cavil is the 2nd worst acting performance in this film. He seems more like a robot then anything.

The Editing makes no sense and really throws you out of the films narrative.

The film at first tries to be this clash of ideals and thinking between Batman vs Super but has those ideals as an afterthought and we are left with the lame plot device that makes Batman vs Superman. It is like Synder was like hey lets get batman vs Superman to fight, fuck the story...yeah people will love it! 

The Dream sequence was interesting but was just odd and weird.

 

Lastly

 

 

Martha ....wtf....? 

 

 

I cant believe I am saying this but Man of Steel was great compared to this. 

Edited by Lordmandeep
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So I just watched Civil War again last night and I have gathered my thoughts on it. Overall...I liked it a lot less in the second screening. I will be discussing it with full spoilers and will be fully comparing it with Batman v Superman. 
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. YOU MAY CALL ME A DC/MARVEL FANBOY BUT I DON'T CARE. 

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The motivations of each character was shown brilliantly. You could see why Steve Rogers was against the Sokovia Accords and why Tony Stark was all for it. I liked how we saw 'few' members of the Avengers discussing it among themselves. Some agreed, some disagreed while others didn't or couldn't reach their decision. 
In Batman v Superman, both superheroes had a different style of bringing the criminals to justice. While Superman wanted to grab the criminals and throw them through the walls, Batman wanted to torture them and be the judge by branding them with a bat symbol which means sentencing them to death. (He said he won't be the executioner, but didn't say anything about not being the Judge).
In this aspect, I liked Batman v Superman more than CW because from the very beginning, we understand why Bruce Wayne truly hates Superman and why he wants to absolutely crush him. But in CW, there is just a little disagreement between the heroes, and then they joke about it and become mates. The stakes aren't that high throughout CW except in the end (which I'll come about later). In BvS, I know that at least Bruce Wayne will definitely be going for murder. I know that he is brilliant and he will try to take down Superman somehow. I didn't get that glimpse in CW, however, which made the airport scene unexciting. 

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Going into both the movies, I was aware of the fact that there are a lot of superheroes who will be making an appearance and I was afraid that the directors just want them there to sell the movie. And my fears were true in both of them. Having said that, I think BvS did a somewhat better job. In BvS, we saw glimpses of the Flash, Cyborg and Aquman through a video camera footage and that was all fine by me. It didn't detract me from the story, it was just a few cameo roles and a glimpse of what they can do in their upcoming movies. It wasn't necessary for them to be there but at the same time it wasn't unnecessary. 
In CW, however, during the airport scene, we understand why Captain America, Iron Man, Bucky, Falcon, Iron Legion, Black Panther and Black Widow were fighting. But the rest...no clue. To me, they just shoehorned in Ant Man just so that he could become giant and surprise the audience. They pushed in Spiderman because of reasons. Hawkeye was introduced to make a few jokes around. Even Vision and Scarlet Witch had no business to fight each other. We clearly saw that neither of them reached their decision regarding the Sokovia Records but suddenly, just when Hawkeye came to save Scarlet she automatically chose sides. That kind of confused me. The action sequences were amazing during that scene, but again the stakes weren't that high. No one was going for blood. They were freaking making jokes during fighting sequences which really infuriated me. It was like watching a comedy circus where the clowns were wearing superhero costumes. 

.
*sigh*

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Let's talk about the villain. Marvel has a track record of producing mediocre villains because they spend so much time developing the heroes. And in this movie, it was no different. I have seen the movie twice and still don't know thr name of the villain and why he is so important. I know why he hated the Avengers and tried to turn them against each other. But he was underwhelmed because he didn't do much. He just planted the bomb during the ceremony and that's it. 
We had a similar kind of villain in BvS by the name of Lex Luthor who also turned Batman and Superman against each other. But in BvS, I couldn't understand why he hated Batman and Superman so much and why he turned them against each other. But the reason why I liked Lex better was because he was the creator of Doomsday. He served his purpose as a villain by creating the monster which ultimately lead to the death of Superman. Between Lex Luthor and the other guy in CW, I have to go with Lex on being the better villain. 

.
And this leads to the ending of both the movies. After Tony finds out about Bucky killing their parents, he turns into a freaking maniac and starts to kill Bucky. Steve, being the voice for reason, tries to defend himself and his best friend. This scene was powerful because we finally got to see what we wanted to see and that was the heroes going for blood. Or at least Iron Man. Captain America wasn't going for the kill but he wanted to stop Tony from murdering his friend. This is similar to the BvS fighting scene where we saw Batman going for the kill and Superman trying to stop him. In this case, the stakes were high in both the movies and we actually got the definitive winner in these two movies. Batman and Captain America (with the help of Bucky). Both the action sequences were phenomenal but I'd give a slight edge to Civil War because it was longer and it was more brutal than the BvS one. But the aftermath in CW was terrible. We saw Tony still angry with Cap and orders him to leave the shield because it didn't belong to him. But there was no encounter between them which showed the characters realising that it was a mistake going against each other. At least in BvS we had a Martha scene which, no matter what anyone says, was still a very powerful scene and it led to both heroes becoming allies. We didn't get that scene in CW. Instead, we saw Cap sending a letter to Tony and apologizing for what he and Bucky did. That's it? That's how they become allies once again. That's how Tony accepts his apology? From a freaking letter? It could've been anything else like Spiderman coming in and being the voice for reason and stopping the fight. Anything else couldn't have been worse than that sorry letter. I guess they couldn't come up with anything else for Stan Lee's cameo.
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Even though Civil War had some of the best, jaw-dropping action sequences in any CBM history, the villain, the aftermath and the stakes were the biggest cons of the movie and in turn were the biggest highlights of BvS. The one thing I hated about BvS was the fact that there weren't enough action scenes in the movie. We barely saw Superman fighting anyone in the movie. We only see him talking to someone and then flying away which really underwhelmed the character. But Ben Affleck's Batman made it all better and we certainly hope for him to do more in the upcoming Suicide Squad.

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Grade : B-/C+

 

- I don't mind showing the death of parents in credits. The part about gun stuck in Martha's necklace causing the pearls to break off was very well done. B's father punching the goon pointing the gun at them was stupid.

- Bruce's point of view of S vs Zod is good but over-rated. No matter how much they "justify" it from story-telling perspective by making it the cause of B's animosity towards S, the quantity of destruction, especially the new scenes shown in the movie (world engine cutting through buildings) is ludicrous.

- "In our world 'S' stands for 'Stalking'". The desert scene in Africa ("I am not a lady, I am a journalist"...lol)., the spear scene at the end, both unnecessary.

- Senate bombing, peach tea was great.

- Lex did not work for me. Jessie was a good choice considering the version of Lex they created. Needed some direction and control.

- Holly was good.

- Batman was great. So was Alfred. So was batcave. Everything Batman worked for me.

- I don't care that Batman was violent. He has become cynical and then he reforms due to S.

- Knightmare sequence was fun. Flash after the "dream" was fine as an idea. But the dialogue was unclear. Did not understand what he was saying. Would not have realized it was Flash if not for being already aware of it.

- WW looking at cameos did not bother me. I was excited about those characters.

- The fight between B and S was nicely done. Yes it's not the greatest thing ever but it's pretty solid. I did wonder why S doesn't move out of the way of what would be the last kryponite bullet, once he regains his strength after the effect of first few bullets wears off. But people not thinking during fights and letting their machoness take over the brain is Snyder's specialty (case in point : B's father trying to punch the goon).

- Martha Scene : Phew. Well I would have been ok with the mother's name giving Batman some food for thought. However, that it was the difference between life and death for S is too much weight for that event (having the same name) to carry. They should have reduced the burden on the coincidence by making it the reason for their conversation at a less critical juncture, instead of the reason between fucking murder and non-murder.

- Doomsday was great fun. Everything from genesis to fight scenes. To me redeemed a lot about the movie.

- WW was great fun. Diana was ok.

- Lois Lane and the Spear : I don't want to loose my composure. The more I think about it the more I want to go for a C grade.

- S's funeral is fine but a bit too long. The dirt rising does take away the build up. But am fine with it as it was nicely done.

- "Ding ding ding ding ding"...WTF? Completely snapped me out of the movie. Laughable.

 

So, the amount of burden Martha's name has to carry, Save Lois all the time, Lois and the spear episode - are the only 3 things that really bother me, especially the spear is why I hover between B-/C+. Else with better editing this good easily have been a solid B.

 

Edited by a2knet
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On 5/5/2016 at 10:45 PM, Lordmandeep said:

Eisenberg for Golden Rasberry Award in Batman vs SUperman 

 

What a massive miscast. 

 

Don't You mean cherry Jolly Rancher? ;)

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ULTIMATE EDITION

 

(in just copying and pasting my review from Letterboxd, can't be bothered to do a separate spoiler review - but accepting Qs!)

 

Okay....I'll try keep this as story spoiler free when it comes to the new content as I can. Possible spoilers for those yet to even see the film - and I 1000% encourage the extended version to be your first viewing if so. 

The TL;DR version - best way to describe this is that it's not a completely different movie. It's a more complete, and definitely improved film. From the word go - so much more room to let the story breathe, and even by the extension everything that the story goes for is done justice better here.

The improvements: the thing about this is that it isn't just the theatrical cut with a bunch of extra scenes added on. Aside from the whole 3rd act (from end of BvS fight to epilogue - which, while being the weaker part of the film in this cut, oddly in the theatrical cut was the best paced part of the film), everything including existing theatrical cut scenes is expanded, changed up, in some cases early on even re-ordered. Most importantly, everything gets a whole lot more room to breathe, the pacing is much more even (which helps even moments like the infamous email scene which is in the same place as in the TC), and the editing and intercutting is miles better, scenes intercut and transition much more naturally and smoothly. You won't even care that there aren't that many more establishing shots even (a notable one was a nice one of Gotham early on). I was at first a bit unsure on how the wheels are spinning quite a bit but overall the very graceful build up to the conflicts is very much appreciated.

It's the same story - but it feels really quite differently executed, and for the better. There are expansions to story elements that really help make sense of a lot of the existing beats. Don't really wanna say more because spoilers, but yes, the additions help immensely.

Clark/Supes and Lois benefit the most from the new content. The balance between Bats and Supes is much more even as we get more to do, and both their storylines are really quite improved upon. There is more Supes as well, with moments that should quieten down the hate, and Bats gets a few more characterisation shades (including a, to me, very notable improvement as well, retconning a point that many at first considered to be a big problem). The new characters introduced, including Jena Malone's, while not really that big on screentime and as such easily expendable in the theatrical, are great to see and they help out overall with affecting expanded subplots. Lex is improved upon also, adding a touch of Frank Underwood as well (one of two Fincher homages, may be uninitentional) to his first-act arc with Senator Finch, and the other additions are very interesting too, but may not be for everyone due to the divisive reaction. I liked Eisenberg's take on Lex so to see more of it here was very welcome.

That third act is, for better or worse, weaker than the rest but still enjoyable to watch - probably a case of everything coming before that and the epilogue after being so good. One thing that peeves me, like in the theatrical cut, is how they tried to introduce a third act element in the build up to the big fight, but I guess all of this is something I can live with.

If you liked the theatrical cut on the first go, you'll love this. If you were on the fence/mixed on the theatrical cut primarily because of the execution issues (except runtime - because there are people for whom a 3 hour superhero blockbuster is too much), you'll likely come out enjoying this. If you didn't like the film the first time for more fundamental reasons like Snyder's vision for these characters and the places he's taking them and the overall story? You probably still come out disliking it.

EDIT: one more thing - there was something someone said about the theatrical cut being far too preoccupied with setting up a universe than it own story. Thankfully this cut does the film's own story justice for good (pun may or may not be intended).

8.5/10

Bring on the questions.

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6 hours ago, Maazaowski said:

I have a question. How were you able to see it before it's release? Did it get leaked or something?

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

It went live on Flixster and CinemaNow yesterday due to an error.

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Going to repeat what I wrote in the JL thread since all BvS threads are closed besides this one.

I'm not sure where else to put this but I watched the directors cut (or the Ultimate Edition - seriously I hate calling it that) of Batman V Superman last night and it really is a better movie. It doesn't improve all it's problems but the pacing is much less jarring then the one released in theaters. It still feels every bit like a movie trying to cram way too many story lines into one film to rush into the Justice League but I no longer hate it. For the first 40 minutes or so I was really surprised at how much better it was. It wasn't until Bruce Waynes first nightmare with the jump scare that all the other stuff started coming in.

Things that weren't expanded on:

  • Lex Luthor's reason for hating Superman.
  • The Government giving Lex Luthor access to Zods body and the ship with a jolly rancher.
  • The kryptonian ship immediately doing what Lex wanted in creating Doomsday.
  • Lex creating Doomsday with no end game.
  • The JL email scene.
  • Wonder Woman randomly showing up everywhere.
  • The nightmare future scenario (easily the most jarring sequence in the whole movie).
  • Superman having fun - he's dour the whole time and the music reflects it.
  • Superman not being able to hear his mother in danger when he can hear Lois under water.
  • Superman picking up the kyrptonite spear when he could have just given it to Wonder Woman.
  • Martha! - but there is so much damn foreshadowing on that word that they obviously thought it would be a big deal.


Things that were expanded on:

  • The opening scene and the fact that Lexs mens burned their bodies after shooting them to make it look like Superman used lazer vision. The woman who comes to Senator Finch about Superman killing those people was being paid off by Lexcorp to lie. This stuff should have been in the original cut.
  • Lois Lane actually plays a huge role in the story and is no longer useless. She still has the stupid throw the spear away moment but she is a much bigger part of this then she originally was.
  • Clark Kent investigating Batman.
  • Clark Kent calling his mom and giving Diane Lane a few more worthy scenes overall.
  • Clark Kent being invited to the party and everyone not just randomly showing up like before.
  • Seeing that Batmans branding method really does get people killed and Clark Kent seeing the aftermath of it.
  • Superman saving people in the aftermath of the bomb going off.
  • The media reaction to Superman leaving the scene with people still hurt.
  • Lex framing Superman by setting up Wallaces apartment to somehow make the media believe he was a co conspirator with Wallace to cause that explosion (yes it's still dumb)
  • Bruce Wayne seeing this and then jumping into action. Yeah I get that he's supposed to be the worlds greatest detective but I can buy that he was blinded by fear of this god that he already had before this happened. I started to buy the 1% chance thing due to the non stop media coverage of the bombing. I could buy that he almost felt like he was responsible for not doing something to stop Superman sooner and those deaths were on him. His reasons for fighting Superman weren't just because it was time for the fight, it was the result of this incidence. The UE set up Lex pitting Batman V Superman so much better overall.
  • Learning that Superman couldn't see the bomb in Wallaces chair because it was lined with lead.
  • Lex Luthor seeing footage of Batman breaking in and stealing the kryptonite (still would have loved to see this sequence)
  • The fight everyone loves of Batman going to save Martha is more brutal here. After he shoots someone we see blood splatter back into the wall.
  • The military not immediately resorting to nuke Doomsday. A few added scenes here with military helicopters.
  • Lex flat out saying he's insane and can't stand trial. He seriously is more like Joker in this movie. Loved that Batman sent him to Arkham Asylum.


I also missed one of Supermans lines before flying away to go fight Batman in the theatrical cut (probably thanks to the score)... "I have to get Bruce to help me. Either that or he has to die. Not everyone stays good Lois."

I still think it's stupid that Superman didn't stop the fight when he could have. (in fact there is a added scene during the actual fight where Superman throws Batman again before tossing him through the building)....but there's more in the UE, to show Superman seeing Batman as a danger that was completely missing from the theatrical cut.

Overall it's a much better movie. It's not great and maybe not even good but at least I got what they were going for here which I did not with the theatrical cut due to the horrid editing. Here the editing still feels like you are cutting from movie to movie but you spend a lot more time on each of them then before. A lot is expanded on and it definitely improves the motivations of some of the main characters to do what they do. Not ALL of them but at least some and I had big problems with that originally.

But Jesus, this movie is long and feels every bit like that 3 hour run time. It is a totally humorless affair with a non stop pounding score. And I really do like the score of this film but in this cut, it's near overbearing and almost gave me a headache.

I don't know if critics would have been kinder to this film had they seen this cut. I still think they would have checked out because it takes a long time for something to happen after that scene in Iraq. It's definitely not a fun movie and is pretty depressing the whole way through. I felt bad for Superman, the guy can't catch a break until he dies.
 

Raised my grade on it from a C - C+. Honestly even sleeping on it I can't decide between those two because a lot of the main problems I originally had are still there. But regardless it's up from a D.
 

Anyway I'm not watching it again, that was enough. Whether you liked or hated the original cut, I can't see you walking away and thinking this one is worse.

Edited by somebody85
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On 4/6/2016 at 11:36 AM, DamienRoc said:

Now that I've had a night to think about it, I'm not actually sure if I liked the movie or not. And I don't think it's a case of really disliking it and being in denial. I really, honestly don't know. To be fair, though, after I saw Man of Steel the first time, I was unsure about the movie.

 

Part of this, I think, is the presentation seemed to be very poor. The theater house lights never dimmed entirely. The sound mix seemed off. I think they had the aperture on the projector on incorrectly, which slightly cut off the top and bottom of the screen. (Noticeable in the scenes of news shows, where the bottom of the text was cut off.) And maybe they had the 3D grate down or something, because it seemed dim, especially compared to trailers I'd seen previously.

 

Well, now I know. The theater did fuck up the projection. It looks SO much better on Blu-Ray.

 

 

On 4/6/2016 at 11:36 AM, DamienRoc said:

 

It's entirely possible that the director's cut, with ample time to explore the motivations and plots, will clear up the confusion. It's not that they necessarily needed that extra time, but if they didn't have a clear plan from the get-go, it could help work through all the excess they were dealing with. We'll have to wait and see. Unfortunately, even if the DC is a vast improvement, it's not going to help. Most of the audience will see it in the theaters, and their opinions will be pretty firm. I doubt many are going to give it a second chance, especially if it's longer.

 

Really glad I did give it a second chance, because the Ultimate Edition is a pretty damn good film.

 

It's possible it doesn't need 3 hours to get the point across, and Batman still feels a little tacked on for the first couple acts, but since it has the room to breathe, all the plotlines and character motivations make sense.

 

I'd give it a 4/5, now.

 

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I am sorry but the movie had just way too many plotlines and arcs so even 4 hours would have been a mess and that s why this movie will ALWAYS feel disjointed as hell, way too many things to deal with.

 

The 3hours cut makes it a little bit better by an inch, that s all.

 

Cutting the detail that the bomb had lead was baffling though.

 

Oh and what a thankless role for Malone ... random laboratory lady ?

Edited by The Futurist
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I saw the "ultimate" cut ... many good scenes and some silly ones, but the basic problem (imho) was that they tried to cram too much into this one movie. To elaborate, it really were three movies:

- Justice League, Assemble!

- Batman vs. Superman

- The Death of Superman

Every single of them would deserve a movie of its own, but, thanks to corporate greed (I guess), they have to co-exist in one hulking release which as a consequence goes every which way and never finds its core resp. heart. Still, 7/10 (B), and I have some hopes for the WW movie since her scenes were actually enjoyable.

Edited by IndustriousAngel
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1. I saw this!

2. I saw the theatrical cut, the one approved by the director and the studio and is not three hours long

3. I tried out this 'edit your own movie' experience where I fast forwarded through scenes that were unfollowable or just kept going forever

 

If Man of Steel is a singular, disastrous vision, BvS makes even more bad decisions but it so all over the place they all just kind of land with a laugh. 

Edited by Gopher
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Ok, finally got round to this. Saw the extended cut, which was probably a mistake because 3 hours of this was really trying. 

 

Anyway... it's bad. But it's fascinatingly bad, like an unpleasant fever-dream that constantly moves too fast for you to get a grip of. For at least the first hour, probably longer, we plunge in and out of scenes with barely any sense of where we are, what characters want, and what the point of it all is. It really does feel like you're watching the movie on a bad drug trip. If they took up all of the movie's first half scenes and shuffled them like a deck of cards to create a totally different order I really don't think it would make much difference. 

 

I don't hold anything against the actors, they did the best they could with the material. I even find myself mildly curious to see what Snyder will do with Justice League, because he's clearly gone beyond the point of taking in any of the many criticisms leveled at him. It will be his hellish vision. 

 

 

 

Edited by Hatebox
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