⊃∪∩⪽ | Legendary | October 22 2021 | Denis Villeneuve | Returns to IMAX on December 3

[OncomingStorm93]

4 minutes ago, Ninenin said:

Yeah but most of those movies were dead on arrival, its all about how they are advertised. Blade Runner was never a big hit in the first place so a flop was expected. Enders game looked like an unappealing children's sci fi and john carter was just not that good.

 

If the trailer and product is good there no reason this can't break out, people showed up for The Martian after-all

 

Its the same case with video game adaptations, is the source material to blame or the string of shitty productions we've been given? 

The Martian/Gravity and space survival in general is far different than your grandiose intergalactic epics.

 

Both those films were sold on a very simple premise: Survival alone. They also had immense starpower. Dune's complicated story is no comparison whatsoever, and while there's an impressive ensemble cast, there's no George Clooney/Sandra Bullock/Matt Damon to be the face of the film.

 

Dune, by it's nature, will be fighting an uphill battle to sell itself to casual audiences. Without a straightforward and relatable premise, or single bankable star, it's well behind The Martian (and Gravity for that matter).

 

Not saying it's impossible for Dune to be a success. In fact, I believe it will be a moderate success (I believe I said $450m WW). WB just needs to be careful with how much they are investing in this high concept, high risk, low reward property.

 

Ignoring recent history will be your own undoing.

[Valonqar]

BR2049 was a cold movie and marketed as such. the emphasis was on sterile visuals of desolate landscapes and neon lights which made geeks cream their pants but GA yawn in unison. if Dune is like that then yes my condolences WB. But it doesn't have to be because it isn't a cold story as I explained in another post. it's just written in a particular style but movie is a different medium.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Valonqar

[OncomingStorm93]

5 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

BR2049 was a cold movie and marketed as such. the emphasis was on sterile visuals of desolate landscapes and neon lights which made geeks cream their pants but GA yawn in unison. if Dune is like that then yes my condolences WB. But it doesn't have to be because it isn't a cold story as I explained in another post. it's just written in a particular style but movie is a different medium.

Every Denis Villeneuve film is tonally freezing cold (and I love him for that).

 

Not sure why that would change with Dune.

[Valonqar]

because the characters are not freezing in the book and shouldn't be shown as such in the movie? 

[Ninenin]

51 minutes ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

The Martian/Gravity and space survival in general is far different than your grandiose intergalactic epics.

 

Both those films were sold on a very simple premise: Survival alone. They also had immense starpower. Dune's complicated story is no comparison whatsoever, and while there's an impressive ensemble cast, there's no George Clooney/Sandra Bullock/Matt Damon to be the face of the film.

 

Dune, by it's nature, will be fighting an uphill battle to sell itself to casual audiences. Without a straightforward and relatable premise, or single bankable star, it's well behind The Martian (and Gravity for that matter).

 

Not saying it's impossible for Dune to be a success. In fact, I believe it will be a moderate success (I believe I said $450m WW). WB just needs to be careful with how much they are investing in this high concept, high risk, low reward property.

 

Ignoring recent history will be your own undoing.

I agree with what you are saying but i still think its best to wait for a trailer before making any sort of assumptions as we have no idea how this will be marketed. Im assuming you've read the books therefore know more of what to expect however I dont believe Dune is a well known enough property that it could hinder its performance. This movie has the best release date you can get and if its advertised as a visually striking space fantasy that pulls in a large enough audience for its OW it's potential is huge.

 

As for the lack of notable stars, films that try immersing you into a new world work better without them as a distraction. Sam Worthington being a nobody helped for Avatar, giving the audience the feel of something new rather than being 'that new Matt Damon movie'. LOTR, HP, Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek...These franchises didn't use well know movie stars, they created them and there's enough young talent on board for it to potentially happen again.

 

Im not saying this film is destined to be huge but I won't write it off this far out just because others failed in the past. 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Ninenin

[WittyUsername]

I don’t see how anyone could say that this movie doesn’t have “a single bankable star”. The star power for this thing is pretty solid. You got Timothee Chalamet, Jason Momoa, Zendaya, Josh Brolin, Dave Bautista, and Oscar Isaac. These are all known actors. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by WittyUsername

[Valonqar]

yeah, it's an "added value" cast like Knives Out. None of them can open alone but together they create star power. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Valonqar

[OncomingStorm93]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

I don’t see how anyone could say that this movie doesn’t have “a single bankable star”. The star power for this thing is pretty solid. You got Timothee Chalamet, Jason Momoa, Zendaya, Josh Brolin, Dave Bautista, and Oscar Isaac. These are all known actors. 

Take out the comic book films and Star Wars, here's your top earning film for each of those actors:

 

Chalamet: Little Women, $148m

Momoa: LEGO Movie 2, $190m

Zendaya: Greatest Showman, $440m

Brolin: Men In Black 3, $654m

Bautista: SPECTRE, $879m

Isaac: Robin Hood, $322m

 

I believe none of the actors were leads in those films, just supporting roles.

 

Clooney/Bullock/Damon's top films all earned more than any on this list except for SPECTRE, where Bautista (correct me if I'm wrong) didn't even have 1 single line of dialogue, and he was 6th in billing. Not to mention it's part of the long established James Bond franchise. Bautista's next biggest (non comic book) hit was BR2049 at $259m.

 

Point is, none of these actors can single-handedly bring in an audience the way the stars of Gravity and The Martian could.

Edited January 30, 2020 by OncomingStorm93

[Eric Atreides]

UM ACHUALLY Men in Black is a CBM

[Valonqar]

yes but they don't need to single-handedly bring in audience since it's an ensemble (hence "added value") and the biggest draw is the source/book/brand. 

 

so why is this compared to "star vehicles" such as Gravity and Martian? those movies are overwhelmingly a one star show and therefore actual star was cast as the lead in each. same goes for other star vehicles where a star spends most of the screen time alone (Smith in IAL, Leo in Revenant, Hanks in Castaway). Dune is not that kind of movie thanks to a very large ensemble that main lead (Chalamet) constantly plays off of.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Valonqar

[OncomingStorm93]

3 minutes ago, Eric #RIPKobe said:

UM ACHUALLY Men in Black is a CBM

In which case Brolin moves down to American Gangster's $267m.

 

"Added up star-power" doesn't do anything on it's own. One has to ask if Knives Out's impressive cast would have saved the film had the script been a clunker...

 

EDIT: A whole lot of good Cat's all-star cast did... Not that I'm implying Dune will be anything close to the catastrophic mess that Cats was, but let's not pretend that a well-rounded ensemble equals automatic success.

Edited January 30, 2020 by OncomingStorm93

[RealLyre]

this thread is quite active for a non-CBM film, reminds me of Alita 

[OncomingStorm93]

3 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

yes but they don't need to single-handedly bring in audience since it's an ensemble (hence "added value") and the biggest draw is the source/book/brand. 

Again, as I have pointed out, similar adaptations have failed spectacularly recently. Within this genre, there is a track record of underperformance, no matter how regarded the source material is.

[Valonqar]

Nobody denies that those movies failed but just because the trend didn't favor them it doesn't mean every movie will follow the trend. It's very likely that those movies failed not because they are futuristic sci fi but some less obivous reasons.

[OncomingStorm93]

7 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Nobody denies that those movies failed but just because the trend didn't favor them it doesn't mean every movie will follow the trend. It's very likely that those movies failed not because they are futuristic sci fi but some less obivous reasons.

Ignore the common denominator at your own peril.

[Valonqar]

Not ignoring common denominator but common denomiantor alone may not be enough. Not to mention that these 3 movies:

 

Blade Runner 2049

John Carter

Ender's Game

 

Don't have anything in common outside of very broad "futuristic sci fi" which John Carter really isn't (it's a space opera/fantasy set in space rather than hard sci fi). Blade Runner isn't about space at all but it's hard sci fi. Ender's Game isn't a space opera/fantasy. John Carter isn't hard sci fi. 

 

Dune is space opera + hard sci fi.

[ThePhasmid]

You'd think Dune would've been more popularly recieved during the Reagan era, but I feel a man like Denis has a better understanding of the complications involved with the drug war.

[JGAR4LIFE]

How many films can they hypothetically make out of these franchise? Because it looks like the first book will be divided into two parts

[WittyUsername]

3 minutes ago, JGAR4LIFE said:

How many films can they hypothetically make out of these franchise? Because it looks like the first book will be divided into two parts

The better question is, where will they release the sequel (assuming there is one)? The next bunch of Decembers are going to be filled with Avatar films and Star Wars films.

[The Panda]

5 hours ago, Ninenin said:

Denis is a great director but he doesn't bode well for box office success

Such a silly argument given he hasn’t actually helmed a mainstream project yet (BR2049 is not a mainstream project, BR is a cult hit)