Weekend numbers. Moana 28.3 | FB 18.5 | Arrival 7.3 | Allied 7 | DS 6.8 | Trolls 4.6 | Hacksaw 3.4

[Fancyarcher]

22 minutes ago, Maxmoser3 said:

Animated movies are sucessful to what both the adults(parents) and their kids both enjoy. Kids don't just make the decision on ticket sales, the adult makes the helping. 

 

That's not exactly the point I was trying to make, but fair and true enough.

[robertman2]

3 hours ago, La Binoche said:

Is anyone else being bombarded by FYC ads for Miss Sloane? Stop wasting your money, it's not gong to happen. 

I've gotten a lot of Disney FYC ads. Mostly emails

[Arlborn]

I'm happy with this weekend, I hope the actuals in general(and specially for FB) stay the same or improve.

[Morieris]

I want to get some FYC ads :/ 

[goldenstate5]

Moana's still going to make oodles of cash for Disney. Are you guys just upset that it's not making the Frozen amount of cash oodles?

[Mojoguy]

Zootopia had no huge names in it either. Animated movies are rarely successful because of their lead actors.

I'm sure the Rock being in Moana made it easier for boys to agree to see the movie with a female lead. You can't be successful nowadays without appealing to males, and Rock is certainly one of the bigger stars WDAS has been able to cast in recent years.

[Dementeleus]

6 hours ago, grim22 said:

 

@Grand Moff Tele will be happy. He has Moana under 600M WW in his winter game and has been rooting for it to underperform. Based on China and U.K. Numbers it looks very likely it can come in below the number he wants (unless it pulls off a Frozen in Japan)

 

My MOANA WW prediction was 634m. So I'm rooting for it to cross 600m. I think this performance is expected, not a disappointment. 

 

[elcaballero]

27 minutes ago, goldenstate5 said:

Moana's still going to make oodles of cash for Disney. Are you guys just upset that it's not making the Frozen amount of cash oodles?

It's more that 2016 has been such a huge year for animation, and Moana, in my opinion, deserves better than being the fifth-highest grossing animated film of the year (which it would be after Sing comes out, in all likelihood). 

[Mojoguy]

It's more that 2016 has been such a huge year for animation, and Moana, in my opinion, deserves better than being the fifth-highest grossing animated film of the year (which it would be after Sing comes out, in all likelihood).

Realistically, I don't think any sane person was expecting Moana to make $800m WW, especially now with the underperformance in China and the UK.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Mojoguy

[Jason]

2 hours ago, goldenstate5 said:

Moana's still going to make oodles of cash for Disney. Are you guys just upset that it's not making the Frozen amount of cash oodles?

 

I don't know of anyone who expected it to make Frozen-level cash WW. I don't think many people expected it to make Frozen-level cash domestically either.

 

I'm not worried about Disney's bottom line, the film will obviously be profitable. I'm a little concerned though that if its performance seems too comparatively weak, one of the explanations (true or not) will be that it's because of a non-white princess. It's hard not to get the impression that studios are already wary of having non-white leads. So while I never thought it would get anywhere near Frozen, I was hoping for a strong performance in the $800M+ range. It's obvious that's quite unlikely at this point, I'm still hoping for $700M. If I had to make a projection, probably $650M.

 

I'm not someone who can't enjoy a film because of a lack of diversity in the cast (far from it), but I've been persuaded that it's important that more films have non-white lead roles.

 

Only speaking for myself, but I suspect based on comments made earlier today I'm not the only one with that concern. I dunno though, maybe the main concern is Disney/Illumination fanboy war. But honestly, that's like 1% as heated as certain fanboy wars that ought not to be named.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Jason

[elcaballero]

35 minutes ago, Jason said:

I'm a little concerned though that if its performance seems too comparatively weak, one of the explanations (true or not) will be that it's because of a non-white princess. 

I would like to believe that's not the reason, but honestly, it is a concern. Sometimes I hate the fact that Hollywood can be such a numbers game (oh the irony of saying that on a box office forum), and I hope that the creatives aren't dissuaded from pursuing diversity because there is a perception that it won't do as well financially. Outside of the "diversity for diversity's sake" argument, there are just so many stories to tell about characters from different backgrounds and cultures, like Moana and Polynesian culture, and I would like to see them told, if for no other reason than seeing something new can only be a good thing. Hopefully more people will try it.

[terrestrial]

55 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't know of anyone who expected to make Frozen-level cash WW. I don't think many people expected it to make Frozen-level cash domestically either.

I'm not worried about Disney's bottom line, the film will obviously be profitable. I'm a little concerned though that if its performance seems too comparatively weak, one of the explanations (true or not) will be that it's because of a non-white princess. It's hard not to get the impression that studios are already wary of having non-white leads. So while I never thought it would get anywhere near Frozen, I was hoping for a strong performance in the $800M+ range. It's obvious that's quite unlikely at this point, I'm still hoping for $700M. If I had to make a projection, probably $650M.

I'm not someone who can't enjoy a film because of a lack of diversity in the cast (far from it), but I've been persuaded that it's important that more films have non-white lead roles.

Only speaking for myself, but I suspect based on comments made earlier today I'm not the only one with that concern. I dunno though, maybe the main concern is Disney/Illumination fanboy war. But honestly, that's like 1% as heated as certain fanboy wars that ought not to be named.

 

I have seen repeatedly your theories about the non-white princess detail and am really wondering how you get to that theory in a IMHO / my understanding of English (might be the reason I understand it in a wrong way) like you seem to think it is the only possible / a very very ... strong possible reason.

 

First:

I want to remind people about exchange rates, the US$ did rise a lot, that makes results always difficult to look good. The Euro e.g. fell alone in this night on a 20 months deep point based on one vote thingy in Italy, China also fell after Trump's win and so on.

 

Second:

I do not think Moana's not doing well in certain OS countries has anything or a considerable part or... to do with the non-white detail, depending on where and when already released.

I have read through several threads here and elsewhere, it seems there was either no advertising at all or only a bit, mostly maybe even at the wrong places, as see UK even female Disney fan(atics) didn't even knew the film is getting/gotten released actually.

In China it is running against a Japanese film a lot of Chinese people seem to have waited for, another animated film, doing extremely great. Plus in my POV the release date and following .... was rather cluttered, incl Fantastic Beasts, partly too near together dates and other films.

In France it does seemingly good (not sure how much, only read #1), and so on. It seems as so often to depends also on the local release schedule and local advertising. As good as Disney can be in dom, they are not always the best in OS.

Not trying to change the results / the not so good start in some regions to something, but please, not jumping on one 'reason' without checking for other possibilities.

 

Third:

What I learned about merchandising, a point that people often seem to like to use for analysis too:

for some strange reasons Disney often does not offer 'really' merchandise for characters, someone at Disney does not trusts into a possible saling success. And if they add things, they are often ugly made, done in a way no one I know would want to buy. Like trying to proof the missing success possibility.

E.g T-Shirts or Gamora, only in huge very bright prints, no distressed (less colourful, term?) styles like e.g. Captain America, Star Wars,.... Female characters looking like boys wet dreams or aggressive stands or... not like the females might pick to wear in daily life (and in horrible qualities, too thin, too 'plastic'), if at all only few different motifs to pick, no comparison to the seemingly thousands of alternatives to the 'proven to Disney' IM/CA/... merchandise

Merchandise for Moana seems not to have been in stores before the start of the film in some regions at least. In that age group that is a missed opportunity, for parents and kids alike, to get introduced to the new Disney 'girl'.

 

Fourth:

I also think people forget that films in other countries often get not released in the same patterns as here, in some countries the market seem to be a bit saturated for the next animated / kids film

 

Fifth:

And the translation.... I didn't look into it for Moana, but bad translation (happens in the Disney company too) can kill a film too.

 

Or see GotG, a local movie can make so much fuzz, not one sees other releases

 

Last:

IMHO it is nearly always a mix of reasons, not one reason. And for every country / varying language another mix of reasons.

In this case the non-existent advertising / not reaching the fans... I'd like to know how that happened. And why the merchandising wasn't there... China's release dates are not to get like elsewhere, but release dates in other countries,... a lot to look into IMHO. After its run everywhere, when more clear data/background hopefully will emerge.

 

And only to remind you:

I do not watch animated films (also no other forms of 'Princess', musical, romance, or ... the other typical Disney or similar to ir films done by competing studios), only got (to a degree) interested via a lot of posts here including thoughts about non-white....

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by terrestrial

[Jason]

44 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

I have seen repeatedly your theories about the non-white princess detail and am really wondering how you get to that theory in a IMHO / my understanding of English (might be the reason I understand it in a wrong way) like you seem to think it is the only possible / a very very ... strong possible reason.

 

I presume you're referring to the posts I made in the International Moana thread. I should make it clear that I do not think Moana's performance at this point should be ascribed to having a non-white princess - quite the opposite. Rather, my intention was to show that this possibility has been raised before, and that it cannot be easily dismissed (although I would prefer that it could). I do not think it is either the only possibility, or even a strong possibility.

 

44 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

I want to remind people about exchange rates, the US$ did rise a lot, that makes results always difficult to look good. Wuro e.g. fell alone in this night on a 20 months deep point based on one vote thingy in Italy China also fell after Trump's win and so on.

 

Yes, I think the change in exchange rates is something most of us have been taking into account when making the comparisons. But always worth a reminder, I'll take this excuse to plug my post for recent Disney films in the Moana OS thread, as well as the more general chart in the Adjusting Exchange Rates thread. (Probably most of the people who'd be interested have seen them, but I know the latter thread disappears from the front page fairly quickly.)

 

44 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

I do not think Moana's not doing well in certain OS countries has anything or a considerable part or... to do with the non-white detail, depending on where and when.

 

There are definitely specific explanations for individual markets. I hope that the ongoing release makes it clear that these other explanations are more likely causes. Not re-quoting all the explanations you listed, but I think all of them are at least plausible, and should be considered.

 

44 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

What I learned about merchandising, a point that people often seem to like to use for analysis too:

for some strange reasons Disney often does not offer 'really' merchandise for characters, someone at Disney does not trusts into a possible saling success. And if they add things, they are often ugly made, done in a way no one I know would want to buy. Like trying to proof the missing success possibility.

 

An excellent point. For example, sales of at least some Zootopia merchandise have been low because it simply hasn't been available, Disney seems to have underestimated demand (which clearly exists based on high resale prices). It's certainly possible some of the non-white princesses may have a low total value of resales on eBay because not many high quality dolls were made in the first place when the film was released.

 

44 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

I also think people forget that films in other countries often get not released in the same patterns as here, in some countries the market seem to be a bit saturated for the next animated / kids film

 

Market saturation could definitely be in play to a greater extent overseas, and this could be a general problem affecting multiple markets.

 

44 minutes ago, terrestrial said:

IMHO it is nearly always a mix of reasons, not one reason. And for every country / varying language another mix of reasons.

 

I agree, it's a general rule to be wary of looking for a single explanation for something as complicated and diverse as worldwide box office. I don't think a low total WW gross for Moana will be simply because of a non-white princess, but I am concerned that it might be perceived to be the cause.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Jason

[terrestrial]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

I agree, it's a general rule to be wary of looking for a single explanation for something as complicated and diverse as worldwide box office. I don't think a low total WW gross for Moana will be simply because of a non-white princess, but I am concerned that it might be perceived to be the cause.

Great, I did not understand what you wrote, it seems we are in a big agreement. And the marked part is, what I am afraid certain ... persons (~ old white male bosses in the toy-descicion departments, see SW's Rey and earlier also Gamora merchandise draft/design idea stories of involved people) might misuse as a proof for their bias.

 

And people jumping too fast on theories without checking...

[filmlover]

The PTA for Rules Don't Apply in 2,386 theaters is lower than the now-out-on-DVD Finding Dory from 34 theaters. Lord. I won't be surprised if they pull it completely next weekend.

[AniNate]

I'd prefer to accentuate the positive that Moana is still going to rake in a lot of dough. If someone needs an excuse to only do movies about white people, they're going to find it somewhere.

[MovieMan89]

Moana will undoubtedly be a big success overall, but I do think perhaps such a massive year for the family market at the box office could finally be starting to show fatigue. How many $1b animated films can one year have after all? I already mentioned it once, but I say again that I would have loved to see what Moana could have done next June at the box office. Next summer is weak for animation and the vibe of the movie is perfect for the season. But oh well, it's still a big success at least domestically. 

[AniNate]

It's worth nothing that a movie set in one of the hottest climates in the world still managed $450m adjusted with a November release.

[MovieMan89]

1 minute ago, tribefan695 said:

It's worth nothing that a movie set in one of the hottest climates in the world still managed $450m adjusted with a November release.

True. But then again it was the only high profile animated release of the  year. Back when the medium didn't even get a big release annually. The following year didn't even have one notable new animated release. 

[AniNate]

I feel like if it did have a summer release there'd be people saying it should've been a holiday release because it's a musical. Wherever it landed I don't expect it would've been able to challenge Frozen. If competition is the reason people think it can't match that movie's legs, it definitely would've still been an issue in the summer