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Spider-Man: Far From Home | 2 JUL 2019 | ***ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED***

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12 minutes ago, Valonqar said:

Solo bombed hard. :ph34r:

Not because of TLJ backlash, but let's not go there.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Barnack said:

How the brand just did 733m OS if it was destroyed ?

 

Some brand are quite resilient, look what Batman/Star Wars survived over the age, Spider Man is probably one of those.

It did that because Marvel rebuilt it. The Amazing Spider-Man 3 would have crashed hard, Marvel did the required course correction to get Spider-Man back to this level. Sony will probably destroy it again if they pull Spidey from the MCU.

Edited by Doctor Stark

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I'll be interested how many MCU fanbase folks still stay as completely invested as we move into Phase 4...there was a decade build up to Thanos and it paid off...but now, not sure how much the average MCU-er will stay invested in each and every movie with no Avengers film even on the horizon...it could go back to being a very DC-like situation where movies and characters have to stand on their own with just a regular uplift from the tag, at least domestically.

 

I know a lot of late 30-early 40 somethings who have said "that was a great arc...and now it's done...not sure I'm gonna be doing it again, since RDJ and Chris Evans are gone"...now add in the new hottest character for kids, Spidey, being gone...you gotta have a hook to keep them coming out in force, and Marvel might struggle out of the gate with that for awhile.

 

Aka - I think people are overvaluing brand right now...Marvel had the ultimate payoff the last 2 years, and built and built and built to it...but the payoff passed...

 

It's almost like Marvel built their trilogy (Avengers 1-2-3 as a 2 parter), and now have to try to keep interest for the 4th movie...a LOT of 4th movies experience enormous fall off...

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Posted (edited)

This pathetic situation oozes hubris.

From both parties.

Edited by The Futurist

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Posted (edited)

This thread is really interesting as an example of how animated success is automatically ghetto-ized by audiences. Everyone is acting like the last Spider-Man movie Sony had complete control over was Amazing Spider-Man 2, and not the one that just won an Oscar and is universally beloved by almost everyone who saw it... It hasn't even been a year since it came out and it might as well not have ever existed, despite making money, increasing audience since hitting home video and having won a major Oscar. 

And that's because most of us have been trained to believe animated movies are just "cartoons," and even when they're good cartoons, they simply don't count as much. 

Into the Spider-Verse is a better film than 95% of the MCU's output. 

Edited by LawrenceBrolivier
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53 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

You probably shouldn't fear that, not only because it's not likely to happen... the fact they were willing to walk is why any of us even know this is a story at all... but because even if they do, it doesn't financially or monetarily affect us at all. So far as we're concerned, we get what we want no matter how the deal gets closed. 

Don't fret for "Sony" as if he's a friend who is being done dirty. Sony is a giant corporation filled with a constantly revolving door full of hundreds of suits you've never heard of before who all make more than any of us will for as long as we live. If Disney sticks them hard on this by manipulating a lazy media who substitutes Twitter discourse for legitimate reporting, it doesn't hurt you any, and never will, unless you're a stockholder, and even then, probably not... 

These aren't sports teams. They're entertainment corporations. Whoever "wins" this deal to keep Spider-Man in the MCU... which I firmly believe will happen before negotiations fully close in the next couple of years... the result will be the same for us. 

I don't fear for myself or because I have any kind of stake or care in either company, I fear about the precedent that would set if Disney managed to get their way here. You're putting words in my mouth like how it would financially affect me which company gets to decide where Spider-Man will piss, I don't care about that. I'd much rather Spider-Man (and all superheroes) took a break from movies completely over any of this. I don't care for Sony, but I do care about what kind of monstrous precedent it would set for the industry if Disney gets their way. Especially considering how much it seems like Disney threw this to the press to make Sony seem like the bad guys. If it's in any way a tactic by Disney to get Sony to sign that paper, it's bad.

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1 minute ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

This thread is really interesting as an example of how animated success is automatically ghetto-ized by audiences. Everyone is acting like the last Spider-Man movie Sony had complete control over was Amazing Spider-Man 2, and not the one that just won an Oscar and is universally beloved by almost everyone who saw it... It hasn't even been a year since it came out and it might as well not have ever existed, despite making money, increasing audience since hitting home video and again, having won a major Oscar. 

And that's because most of us have been trained to believe animated movies are just "cartoons," and even when they're good cartoons, they simply don't count as much. 

Into the Spider-Verse is a better film than 95% of the MCU's output. 

ITSV was given a lot more creative freedom than would likely be given to a live-action film. I don't think it's reflective of what would be done with Peter.

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13 minutes ago, Walt Disney said:

I am not sure if you're confused or not about who actually owns the character of Spider-Man, so just to clarify, Disney owns the rights to the character Spider-Man. They are the sole owners of the character. So why would Sony have theme park rights to a character that they don't own? 

 

Disney does not have the exclusive theme park rights to Spider-Man. Universal Studios has the theme park rights to Spider-Man in all theme parks east of the Mississippi River, which means no Spider-Man at Walt Disney World. Disney does have the theme park rights at the other theme parks. This has absolutely zero to do with Spider-Man movies. Unless you mistakenly think that Sony owns Spider-Man. So I will reiterate, Disney owns the character Spider-Man.

 

As for merchandising, Sony traded the merchandising rights to Disney in exchange for not having to pay Marvel a licensing fee for using Marvel's Spider-Man character in movies. That's why Disney has the merchandising rights. 

 

Marvel is actually supplying all the creativity and supervision in making the movie. Additionally, the character is allowed to be included in a very successful franchise, which only increases its box office prospects, which were fading badly before it was allowed to be included in said franchise. Why is it greedy to value all of that at 50%, when you're also willing to finance half the movie? 

For the record, when they made the Spidey and X Men sales to Sony and Fox, Marvel was careful to retain the merchandising rights. Sony and Fox bought the movie rights, nothing else. They got a percentage of the merchandising  profits in return for the use of the character designs specific to the movies, but overall Merchandising rights..and everything except the movie rights...remained in Marvel's hands.

I love the accusation of Greed. Of course Disney is greedy for profits. But so is Sony, so is every other studio. They are businesses and businesses exist to make profits. They don't exist to make fans happy except that making fans happy helps profits.

And we still don't know how much of this is just a negogiating tactic. 

IMHO Soney needs the MCU a lot more then the MCU needs Spidey.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Lucas said:

I don't fear for myself or because I have any kind of stake or care in either company, I fear about the precedent that would set if Disney managed to get their way here. 

That precedent has been set many times over. The precedent of their rewriting copyright laws is infinitely more damaging than the precedent of bullying another studio into giving them a sweeter financial deal. The precedent of their absorbing Fox is more damaging than this. Disney, as an entertainment corporation, has already reshaped that industry through strong-arm practices many, many times over, in ways much more impactful than whatever this ends up being... Ask a theater owner if you don't believe me. 

5 minutes ago, Menor said:

ITSV was given a lot more creative freedom than would likely be given to a live-action film. I don't think it's reflective of what would be done with Peter.

 

I'm unsure why you're assuming that, unless you're going to use Amazing Spider-Man 2 as a reference point... but like I've already said, almost all the people responsible for those financial and creative decisions have nothing to do with what's going on now. I don't know why you'd automatically assume, especially given the overwhelmingly positive reaction Spider-Verse, that Lord & Miller... or even the Insomniac team behind the Spider-Man game... would be handcuffed to a point that their quality of product would automatically be hindered no matter what.

Edited by LawrenceBrolivier

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2 minutes ago, Lucas said:

I don't fear for myself or because I have any kind of stake or care in either company, I fear about the precedent that would set if Disney managed to get their way here. You're putting words in my mouth like how it would financially affect me which company gets to decide where Spider-Man will piss, I don't care about that. I'd much rather Spider-Man (and all superheroes) took a break from movies completely over any of this. I don't care for Sony, but I do care about what kind of monstrous precedent it would set for the industry if Disney gets their way. Especially considering how much it seems like Disney threw this to the press to make Sony seem like the bad guys. If it's in any way a tactic by Disney to get Sony to sign that paper, it's bad.

I got news for you, this kind of tactic in negotiating has been going on for a long,long, time.

God, the level of ignorance and unreality in this forum is just unbelievable. 

And people wanting things that will never happen, like comic books movies taking a break.

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2 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

That precedent has been set many times over. The precedent of their rewriting copyright laws is infinitely more damaging than the precedent of bullying another studio into giving them a sweeter financial deal. The precedent of their absorbing Fox is more damaging than this. Disney, as an entertainment corporation, has already reshaped that industry through strong-arm practices many, many times over, in ways much more impactful than whatever this ends up being... Ask a theater owner if you don't believe me. 

 Yes, in every business hard ball tactics are used in negotiations. Leaks are a common weapon in this.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Noctis said:

This has nothing to do with how Sony handled Spider-Man in the past (Spider Verse shows they can still deliver high quality SM films - the most critically acclaimed SM film ever), but everything to do with Disney increasingly pushing its boundaries. Sony is no underdog and don't try to spin my words as it's some kind of poor company fighting for the voice of the common people - it's a massive corporation - however, with Disney having swallowed a major studio recently and is clearly extending its tentacles to have as much influence in the media as possible - I would argue Disney needs to take several fucking seats back. 

Take several seats and continue putting in all the work while Sony gets the great majority of the profits. Lol Any company in that position would want to negotiate a better deal. The only thing open for debate, as far as I can see, is what is considered a reasonable percentage that works for both companies. 

Edited by Ororo Munroe
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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, CJohn said:

Yes, I am very angry about all of this. I will burn down Sony and Disney if they don't reach an agreement and boycott their movies until the end of times.

 

Also, there is an actual thread pinned about me somewhere in this forum so I would say I am quite relevant. Two actually, if we count the CJohn Saga.

Trust me.. you are irrelevant where its relevant.. this is a box office numbers site.. nothing more nothing less... and you are also less if you continue hating blindly

Edit:any update on how to block people?

 

TTVOMJ

Edited by Maximum Avery

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10 minutes ago, The Futurist said:

This pathetic situation oozes hubris.

From both parties.

It's basically a giant game of chicken.

Hey, business deals are like making sausage;you really don't want to see what goes on in the process.

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Thank God the MCU Parker is over. Worst live action incarnation of the character. Why would anyone want to watch an annoying Iron Man fanboy who never accomplishes anything.

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Just now, Ororo Munroe said:

Take several seats and continue putting in all the work while Sony gets the great majority of the profits. Lol Any company in that position would want to negotiate a better deal. The only thing open for debate is, as far as I can see, what is considered a reasonable percentage that works for both companies. 

I think Disney does not expect to get their initial demand;you always make your opening offer  much more then you are willing to settle for. That is business negotiating tactics 101; exactly the same as you probably use at a yard sale or a flea market. The seller asks ten dollars, you offer five, you both settle for 7>50.

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4 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

That precedent has been set many times over. The precedent of their rewriting copyright laws is infinitely more damaging than the precedent of bullying another studio into giving them a sweeter financial deal. The precedent of their absorbing Fox is more damaging than this. Disney, as an entertainment corporation, has already reshaped that industry through strong-arm practices many, many times over, in ways much more impactful than whatever this ends up being... Ask a theater owner if you don't believe me. 

 

3 minutes ago, dudalb said:

I got news for you, this kind of tactic in negotiating has been going on for a long,long, time.

I know all this, but it's usually not as public as this and involves a mob of people calling for pointless boycotts against Sony unless they sign whatever Disney says. If it had just been stupid people on the internet, fine, but now the actors are getting involved as well and rallying against Sony.

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15 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

Into the Spider-Verse is a better film than 100% of the MCU's output. 

Fixed it for you.

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