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Spider-Man: Far From Home | 2 JUL 2019 | ***ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED***

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I got it.

Spidey was a

Spoiler

skrull

 

all this goddamn time.

 

Hire me Kevin.

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The hot takes about Spidey in the MCU on this thread are scorching  Planet Earth.

Rivering stuff.

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Has anyone else suggested we all write to Tom Rothman and suggest he go fuck himself?

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10 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

That precedent has been set many times over. The precedent of their rewriting copyright laws is infinitely more damaging than the precedent of bullying another studio into giving them a sweeter financial deal. The precedent of their absorbing Fox is more damaging than this. Disney, as an entertainment corporation, has already reshaped that industry through strong-arm practices many, many times over, in ways much more impactful than whatever this ends up being... Ask a theater owner if you don't believe me. 

 

I'm unsure why you're assuming that, unless you're going to use Amazing Spider-Man 2 as a reference point... but like I've already said, almost all the people responsible for those financial and creative decisions have nothing to do with what's going on now. I don't know why you'd automatically assume, especially given the overwhelmingly positive reaction Spider-Verse, that Lord & Miller... or even the Insomniac team behind the Spider-Man game... would be handcuffed to a point that their quality of product would automatically be hindered no matter what.

Venom. I didn't hate the movie but it was a huge mess.

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11 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

This thread is really interesting as an example of how animated success is automatically ghetto-ized by audiences. Everyone is acting like the last Spider-Man movie Sony had complete control over was Amazing Spider-Man 2, and not the one that just won an Oscar and is universally beloved by almost everyone who saw it... It hasn't even been a year since it came out and it might as well not have ever existed, despite making money, increasing audience since hitting home video and having won a major Oscar. 

And that's because most of us have been trained to believe animated movies are just "cartoons," and even when they're good cartoons, they simply don't count as much. 

Into the Spider-Verse is a better film than 95% of the MCU's output. 

In your opinion, sure. However, Into the Spider-verse grossed about $190 M domestically and $375M WW.  Dumbo, which was not a hit under any stretch of the imagination, grossed about $114M domestically and $353M WW. Spider-verse didn't light the box office on fire. While the people that saw into the Spider-verse liked it, it isn't in the same league with the top grossing superhero films or the top grossing animated films. You would have to not adjust for inflation in order to find an MCU film that grossed that little. 

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I don’t see why the next Spider-Man movie would drop that much. He’s a very popular character wether he’s in the mcu or not. If an Aquaman movie can make over a billion, I don’t see why a Sony Spider-Man vs Venom (w/carnage, or even sinister six) movie can’t with the right action, storey and reviews. 

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Further proof for me that it was a good idea to end it with the MCU after Endgame.

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53 minutes ago, Titan Man said:

But nobody bats an eye to the burning Amazon forest. Ahh, never change, humans, never change...

While it is unfortunately true, this thread is about the last Spider-Man movie (and its possible sequels in the Venomverse).

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29 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

I'll be interested how many MCU fanbase folks still stay as completely invested as we move into Phase 4...there was a decade build up to Thanos and it paid off...but now, not sure how much the average MCU-er will stay invested in each and every movie with no Avengers film even on the horizon...it could go back to being a very DC-like situation where movies and characters have to stand on their own with just a regular uplift from the tag, at least domestically.

 

I know a lot of late 30-early 40 somethings who have said "that was a great arc...and now it's done...not sure I'm gonna be doing it again, since RDJ and Chris Evans are gone"...now add in the new hottest character for kids, Spidey, being gone...you gotta have a hook to keep them coming out in force, and Marvel might struggle out of the gate with that for awhile.

 

Aka - I think people are overvaluing brand right now...Marvel had the ultimate payoff the last 2 years, and built and built and built to it...but the payoff passed...

 

It's almost like Marvel built their trilogy (Avengers 1-2-3 as a 2 parter), and now have to try to keep interest for the 4th movie...a LOT of 4th movies experience enormous fall off...

I think this is the real reason Sony doesn't feel they can take the 50/50 deal. If they were very confident the FFH sequel(s) would make at least as much or more as FFH, then maybe they would still want to continue with the 50% profit deal. But how much of FFH's gross was the Endgame effect, just like the early phase 2 movies got a TA boost? How set in stone is MCU's success going forward? I think Sony is afraid of the grosses dropping from here, in which case 50% could end up being the raw deal for them opposed to the alternative. 

Edited by MovieMan89

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11 minutes ago, Lucas said:

 

I know all this, but it's usually not as public as this and involves a mob of people calling for pointless boycotts against Sony unless they sign whatever Disney says. If it had just been stupid people on the internet, fine, but now the actors are getting involved as well and rallying against Sony.

Which indicates that SONY is not in a good position on this.

You really don't have any idea of how it works in the real world of business, don't you?

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I will say that I'm seeing almost 100% anti-Sony stances in this whole thing on my social media feeds. Say what you will about this, but it couldn't be clearer which company has the better reputation in the public's eye. 

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4 minutes ago, Walt Disney said:

In your opinion, sure. However, Into the Spider-verse grossed about $190 M domestically and $375M WW.  Dumbo, which was not a hit under any stretch of the imagination, grossed about $114M domestically and $353M WW. Spider-verse didn't light the box office on fire. While the people that saw into the Spider-verse liked it, it isn't in the same league with the top grossing superhero films or the top grossing animated films. You would have to not adjust for inflation in order to find an MCU film that grossed that little. 

People are talking about the quality of the movies, not the box-office, especially since by that point in this conversation we'd established that even the bad Amazing Spider-Man movies made Sony money. My point is that people are hitting their pre-fabricated narratives about what Mr. Timothy Sony is personally going to do to ruin Spider-Man once he takes over... while conveniently forgetting the studio just recently 100% in-house financed, produced, and distributed a movie that is better than 95% of the MCU's output. 

Did it earn as much as it probably should have? No. But that's also a reflection of my larger point, which is that audiences are very firmly trained both by the industry and by larger American culture to believe cartoons simply don't count as much as live action... The Lion King is another great example of this... and that's borne out by this conversation, where every other page is someone suggesting Sony is guaranteed to screw this up as if they hadn't just produced arguably the best Spider-Man film ever made... and if it's not that one, it's Spider-Man 2, which was ALSO 100% Sony-made... 

People are going out of their way to come up with reasons for why Into the Spider-Verse doesn't count in this conversation for a variety of interesting reasons, and it seems to be the main use for doing it that is being able to continue pushing that negative storyline...

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6 minutes ago, cax16 said:

I don’t see why the next Spider-Man movie would drop that much. He’s a very popular character wether he’s in the mcu or not. If an Aquaman movie can make over a billion, I don’t see why a Sony Spider-Man vs Venom (w/carnage, or even sinister six) movie can’t with the right action, storey and reviews. 

The problem is that SONY management seemed to have screwed up their live action Spidey when left to their own devices. There are a lot of reason to doubt that on their own, they can come up with the right action, story, and revies. Have you forgotten TASM 2?

You alos have the problem that people hate it when you take away something they are used to, and people are used to see Spidey in the MCU.

You are showing a basic problem I have with fans; not getting that it's all in the execution. That any source material,no matter how good, can be ruined by bad handling;And I repeat;Sony's record with it's live action Spidey does not lend one much confidence.

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2 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I will say that I'm seeing almost 100% anti-Sony stances in this whole thing on my social media feeds. Say what you will about this, but it couldn't be clearer which company has the better reputation in the public's eye. 

Nah, it just people like Spidey in the MCU, and don't want to see him leave.

A lot of the commetns by people who cover the film business is that SONY was badly out  maneuvered by Disney.

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5 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Which indicates that SONY is not in a good position on this.

You really don't have any idea of how it works in the real world of business, don't you?

... well yes, of course Sony is not in a good position on this? That's my entire point. Not being in a good position so Disney can get what they want.

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Hot take: 

 

Spiderman into the Multi Verse is a great comic book movie but i feel its a bit overrated by people who sort of fetish about it to against the typical superhero fare that dominates. 

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4 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

People are talking about the quality of the movies, not the box-office, especially since by that point in this conversation we'd established that even the bad Amazing Spider-Man movies made Sony money. My point is that people are hitting their pre-fabricated narratives about what Mr. Timothy Sony is personally going to do to ruin Spider-Man once he takes over... while conveniently forgetting the studio just recently 100% in-house financed, produced, and distributed a movie that is better than 95% of the MCU's output. 

Did it earn as much as it probably should have? No. But that's also a reflection of my larger point, which is that audiences are very firmly trained both by the industry and by larger American culture to believe cartoons simply don't count as much as live action... The Lion King is another great example of this... and that's borne out by this conversation, where every other page is someone suggesting Sony is guaranteed to screw this up as if they hadn't just produced arguably the best Spider-Man film ever made... and if it's not that one, it's Spider-Man 2, which was ALSO 100% Sony-made... 

People are going out of their way to come up with reasons for why Into the Spider-Verse doesn't count in this conversation for a variety of interesting reasons, and it seems to be the main use for doing it that is being able to continue pushing that negative storyline...

In a post a few pages back, Barnack posted numbers regarding how little TASM and TASM 2 actually made Sony, so we don't have to discuss how little Sony actually made.

 

Into the Spider-verse isn't better than 95% of the MCU's output by any measurable standard. You keep saying that like it's a fact, when it isn't.

 

Your point about animation doesn't make any sense either when we just saw Incredibles 2 put up amazing BO numbers last year and are watching Toy Story 4 put up great numbers this year. Frozen 2 will also put up numbers that will match up against almost any blockbuster. Animated films are grossing 1 Billion at the box office. Into the Spider-verse just isn't one of them.

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38 minutes ago, LawrenceBrolivier said:

This thread is really interesting as an example of how animated success is automatically ghetto-ized by audiences. Everyone is acting like the last Spider-Man movie Sony had complete control over was Amazing Spider-Man 2, and not the one that just won an Oscar and is universally beloved by almost everyone who saw it... It hasn't even been a year since it came out and it might as well not have ever existed, despite making money, increasing audience since hitting home video and having won a major Oscar. 

And that's because most of us have been trained to believe animated movies are just "cartoons," and even when they're good cartoons, they simply don't count as much. 

Into the Spider-Verse is a better film than 95% of the MCU's output. 

$375m is not $1.1b. Sony’s ambitions are VERY different for live action Peter Parker, I think everyone can agree on that. It’s prob more along the lines of what they have planned for Venom, Carnage, etc. and an animated Oscar probably doesn’t mean much to Disney. They have like 20 of them. 

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5 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

Hot take: 

 

Spiderman into the Multi Verse is a great comic book movie but i feel its a bit overrated by people who sort of fetish about it to against the typical superhero fare that dominates. 

You're a brave person to say that.

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