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Spider-Man: Far From Home | 2 JUL 2019 | ***ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED***

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So it’s been known for a while now that parent company Sony Japan has been looking at the right time to sell off its Film and TV division.

 

Industry experts believe that Sony Pictures will inevitably be sold within the next couple years. There was even news just a few months ago that Apple maybe looking into purchasing Sony Pictures.

 

https://observer.com/2019/01/apple-a24-sony-netflix-disney-fox-sale/

 

Then this Forbes article came along and pointed something very interesting:

 

“It's no secret that Sony Pictures is likely to wind up bought by another company at some point in the next couple of years, for all of the reasons the much larger and more successful 20th Century Fox did the math and realized they couldn't compete longterm in a marketplace requiring a larger stable of branded IP, global multimedia footprint, and marketing power than Fox had, relative to more financially successful and IP-laden studios. If and when Sony winds up in a merger with a company like Netflix, Amazon, or Apple, the Spider-Man IP will revert back to Marvel — and it's unlikely anyone currently involved with the IP at Sony will get a dime when that happens.

 

All of that said, though, if in fact a deal isn't reached, then one of two things will still happen. The first possible outcome is this: Sony makes their solo movies and it all works out fine for them, which leads to another studio stepping in to acquire Sony before the buying price goes up too much (as it would if the solo films continue being billion dollar earners while the spinoffs are likewise blockbusters, even though the IP won't transfer in a sale), and then the Spider-Man rights revert back to Marvel.

 

The second possible outcome is this: Sony makes their solo movies and it all goes badly, the studio spends more and more money on them while the box office diminishes (again), the spinoffs aren't as big of hits as hoped, the IP becomes a mess (again), and Sony's value drops until another company acquires them when the price is relatively cheap (to get their back library of content for a streaming service like Netflix, Amazon, or Apple), and then the Spider-Man rights revert back to Marvel.”

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2019/08/21/how-the-marvel-sony-spider-man-dispute-will-be-solved-one-way-or-another/#23ebb3856b50

 

In other words, Sony needs to make as much money off of Spider-man and his friends IPs as soon as possible, because their window to do so isn’t long.

 

Disney on the other hand, can just take their time.

 

With Endgame coming to past just this year, Marvel likely won’t be making another big team-up Avengers type move anytime soon to include Spider-man in. It took 4 years of buildup after Iron Man to get to the Avengers; this could likely be the same plan at the start of Phase 4. Marvel’s movie slate seems to be full all the way through 2023, so the earliest team-up Marvel movie won’t happen until 2024 the earliest.

 

Between now and 2024, if what industry insiders are saying is correct, there’s a very good chance Sony Pictures will have been sold off in that time frame, resulting in Disney acquiring back the Spider-man and his friends license while they’ve used that time building up their new IPs from Eternals to the Fantastic Four and the X-Men, just right on time for the next big team-up movie to call for Spider-man back.

 

Based on the latest Deadline report, this might be one of the reasons why Disney, likely tired of dealing with Sony’s new head, Tom Rothman for the last half year, was not worried about pulling negotiations off the table when they couldn’t agree to the initial 25% that Disney offered about 6 months ago. They actually have the time and the slate to wait it out, whilst Sony... not so much.

 

https://deadline.com/2019/08/spider-man-disney-marvel-sony-director-jon-watts-next-film-courtship-1202702851/

 

With that said, hopefully both companies are still able to get a deal before all this has to come to past. It’s a win-win for all involved if that happens. 

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Seems like this came up during the bidding war between Disney and Comcast over Fox as well.  The movie rights may not be directly transferable but that generally doesn't apply if company that holds them itself is purchased and not simply dissolved.  Unless there's a specific provision in the agreement when Sony acquired the rights in the first place stipulates that (which I doubt anyone at Forbes has seen).

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29 minutes ago, Jordanstine said:

So it’s been known for a while now that parent company Sony Japan has been looking at the right time to sell off its Film and TV division.

 

They pushed a different signal lately with the new CEO:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/06/business/media/sony-movies-television-ces-playstation.html

Sony’s Chief Plans to Make Entertainment Assets a Priority.

 

They have probably more pressure to sell/spin off Mobiles and the semiconductor business than movies in the next few year's. At least that what very vocal stockholder group are pressuring them: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/should-sony-listen-calls-split-company-time-1219563

 

To go more into the music-movie-gaming aspect and less into the health care, insurance business.

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9 minutes ago, Horner said:

l.  The movie rights may not be directly transferable

 

16 minutes ago, Horner said:

The movie rights may not be directly transferable but that generally doesn't apply if company that holds them itself is purchased and not simply dissolved.  Unless there's a specific provision in the agreement when Sony acquired the rights in the first place stipulates that (which I doubt anyone at Forbes has seen).

I imagine they did not but yes there was a provision back in the days at least, the language isn't that clear to me but:

 

23.  ASSIGNMENT. 

 

            23.a.  SPE’s Right to Assign.  Subject to Section 23.b hereof, SPE shall be free to assign or license any or all of its rights hereunder, and/or to delegate any or all of its duties, obligations and liabilities, at any time and from time to time, to any person or entity, and upon such assignment, SPE shall be released and discharged of and from the delegated duties, obligations and liabilities if such assignment and/or delegation is to: (i) a person or entity into which SPE merges or is consolidated or (ii) a person or entity which acquires all or substantially all of SPE's business and assets and which assumes such obligations in writing, or (iii) a financially responsible entity which is controlled by, under common control with, or controls SPE which assumes such obligations in writing, or (iv) a “Major Studio” (i.e., and expressly defined as limited to: Warner Bros., Fox, Disney, Paramount, Universal, or Dreamworks) or United States television network, which assumes such obligations in writing.  Any purported assignment by SPE in violation of this Section 23 shall be void ab initio.

 

            23.b.  Limitations.  SPE may not assign this Agreement in its entirety except to (i) a person or entity into which SPE merges or is consolidated, or (ii) a person or entity which acquires all or substantially all of SPE's business and assets and which assumes such obligations in writing, or (iii) a person or entity which is controlled by, under common control with, or controls SPE, or (iv) a Major Studio which assumes such obligations in writing.  SPE may not assign its right to produce any Production to, or enter into a co-production agreement with, any entity except (i) any of the entities described in Section 23.b(i) - (iv) hereof, or (ii) in connection a transaction which is, in substance, a financing transaction and pursuant to which SPE initially controls all United States distribution rights with respect to the applicable Production and either controls or has the right to obtain (e.g., through the exercise of one or more options) such United States distribution rights for the entire term of copyright.  SPE may not assign its rights with respect to the ownership and control of the LP under Section 11 hereof except to any of the persons or entities described in Section 23.b(i), (ii) or (iii) hereof.  Upon any assignment or delegation permitted under Section 23.b(i) - (iv) above, SPE shall be released and discharged of and from the delegated duties, obligations and liabilities. 

 

 

If Sony is sold to an Disney type of organisation or merge to a create a new organisation, they would have the options to transfers of their obligation/rights to them, the contracts often stipulate Sony or it's successor.

 

There is a close that said too that if Sony sell it's right to a non approved pre-entity (an major studio, a USA television network, etc...) that entity will have all the economical interest Sony had but not the creative control and approval rights on it.

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10 hours ago, filmscholar said:

.... I actually think he could increase his salary now in the next movie. ....

With Rothman, 'I go and visit sets during the most exhausting phases of the production with an army of lawyers to cut the agreed on budget down considerable' ... as Studio boss doing that ~ regularly especially if it is a genre movie?

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jordanstine said:

Then this Forbes article came along and pointed something very interesting:

 

“It's no secret that Sony Pictures is likely to wind up bought by another company at some point in the next couple of years, for all of the reasons the much larger and more successful 20th Century Fox did the math and realized they couldn't compete longterm in a marketplace requiring a larger stable of branded IP, global multimedia footprint, and marketing power than Fox had, relative to more financially successful and IP-laden studios. If and when Sony winds up in a merger with a company like Netflix, Amazon, or Apple, the Spider-Man IP will revert back to Marvel — and it's unlikely anyone currently involved with the IP at Sony will get a dime when that happens.

 

All of that said, though, if in fact a deal isn't reached, then one of two things will still happen. The first possible outcome is this: Sony makes their solo movies and it all works out fine for them, which leads to another studio stepping in to acquire Sony before the buying price goes up too much (as it would if the solo films continue being billion dollar earners while the spinoffs are likewise blockbusters, even though the IP won't transfer in a sale), and then the Spider-Man rights revert back to Marvel.

 

The second possible outcome is this: Sony makes their solo movies and it all goes badly, the studio spends more and more money on them while the box office diminishes (again), the spinoffs aren't as big of hits as hoped, the IP becomes a mess (again), and Sony's value drops until another company acquires them when the price is relatively cheap (to get their back library of content for a streaming service like Netflix, Amazon, or Apple), and then the Spider-Man rights revert back to Marvel.”

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2019/08/21/how-the-marvel-sony-spider-man-dispute-will-be-solved-one-way-or-another/#23ebb3856b50

 

That isn't an article. That is an opinion piece from Mark Hughes who really knows nothing about the industry (less than even the infamous Scott Mendelson).

Edited by lorddemaxus
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13 hours ago, filmscholar said:

I'm very impressed with how Tom has handled this whole situation.   Some Marvel fans online have said he should quit if the deal did't go through but that would hurt his career.  I actually think he could increase his salary now in the next movie.   This whole incident shows how some of the fandom out there are unaware of understanding that this is he movie "BUSINESS" because that's what it is, a Business.  

I agree. I think the way he has handled this has been great. Going the Bautista route may have been what fans wanted to see but Tom is just starting his career and managing to handle this battle between two major studios without disparaging either studio and praising them both was professional. Also, whatever his true feelings he seemed genuine in his gratefulness towards Marvel and enthusiasm about the future. 

 

I would assume he is getting a raise by virtue of the fact his movie have made so much money but that is naive of me considering I don't know what type of contract he signed with Sony upfront so he may be locked in to a set amount for the next film. 

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How hard would it be to get Feige to peer review any new scripts and make suggestions to keep the quality up.

 

Marvel still benefits from Spidey doing good box office.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, lorddemaxus said:

That isn't an article. That is an opinion piece from Mark Hughes who really knows nothing about the industry (less than even the infamous Scott Mendelson).

Hughes is infinitely more knowledgeable than Mendelson. Stop it. 

Edited by Ororo Munroe
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Tom literally said before the panel yesterday that they're trying to still work out a deal, I don't trust that discussingfilms twitter. It's just clickbait. 

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10 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

ef635ed379382d6686d8a412de5ee19a665e03d8

 

From someone at the event. Discussing films is full of shit.

weren't they just quoting that EW interview? not in this panel.. 

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15 minutes ago, RealLyre said:

weren't they just quoting that EW interview? not in this panel.. 

No they were at the con and this is what thee mod said to the audience before  Tom came on stage. When he did he made a small statement and they began the panel.

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1 hour ago, Cappoedameron said:

ef635ed379382d6686d8a412de5ee19a665e03d8

 

From someone at the event. Discussing films is full of shit.

I posted a video of his small statement earlier. He did not say that.

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9 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I posted a video of his small statement earlier. He did not say that.

he didnt sday that tom said that

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3 hours ago, AndyK said:

How hard would it be to get Feige to peer review any new scripts and make suggestions to keep the quality up.

 

Marvel still benefits from Spidey doing good box office.

Feige made a ton of suggestion for Amazing Spider-man 2.

They are all ignored.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, AndyK said:

How hard would it be to get Feige to peer review any new scripts and make suggestions to keep the quality up.

That's what Sony had him doing for years, already.  And as others have reminded, they weren't listening very much.  And Feige was such a good guy that he did it, because he loves Spider-Man.  Once Marvel Studios/Disney came to play to "share" the character, then they listened.

 

It's much harder now for Sony to retain an upper hand, with each successive success that Marvel Studios has had at the box office (and Sony, of course, has had two Spider-related successes of their own fairly independent of Feige).  Disney wants Feige to be fairly compensated for his time, and I don't blame them.  I also don't blame Sony for taking as much advantage as they did of this sweet, sweet deal they had so far ("You mean you Marvel guys "make" the movies, and we pay for them? And you don't want any money in return, Kevin? Just Spider-Man for a few Avengers movies? Seriously?? OK, guys!!) 

 

Disney is now saying "Let us fund a third or half, and we'll take a third or half of the profits."  Sony's like "Nah, guys, we're good.  We liked the deal better before, and we can do it on our own now."

 

No one wins, of course.  :popcorn:

 

Extraordinary that it ever happened in the first place.  But fanboys are delusional to think these kinds of rare deals last forever, or that Marvel/Disney "deserve" Spider-Man back.  It's not personal, it's all business. 

Edited by Macleod

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2 minutes ago, Macleod said:

Extraordinary that it ever happened in the first place.  But fanboys are delusional to think these kinds of rare deals last forever, or that Marvel/Disney "deserve" Spider-Man back.  It's not personal, it's all business. 

As a huge Spidey/MCU fan, I do take it a little personally, sure. But I'm also somewhat baffled from a business standpoint that Sony and Disney haven't been able to work out a deal. The result of their cooperation with the character has been a just-about-universal success, using whatever criteria you want to use (box office, critics, fans...). It seems crazy to me that both sides aren't doing whatever is humanly possible to continue such a successful collaboration. It seems to be a classic case of both sides cutting off their noses to spite their face. I'm holding out a sliver of hope that both sides realize this soon and work things out...

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3 hours ago, lorddemaxus said:

I posted a video of his small statement earlier. He did not say that.

tumblr_inline_posq8cCvNG1ua40xi_540.gif

 

I literally said the mod said that.

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