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Spider-Man: Far From Home | 2 JUL 2019 | ***ENDGAME SPOILERS ALLOWED***

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7 minutes ago, john2000 said:

you do realise that his comment in context was almost the same as sony pic statement on twitter right ? it was nothing knew and no kind of any confirmation

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/spiderman-mcu-sony-pictures-chief-1203324907/

 

It's Sony Pictures Entertainment's Chairman/CEO, above Rothman.  So if he says it...it confirms that the deal's kaput, for now.  How much clearer can it get?  But obviously, he's left the door open.  

 

https://www.sonypictures.com/corp/management.html

 

 

Edited by Macleod

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16 minutes ago, RealLyre said:

almost as if Disney shouldn't have signed on a deal that wouldn't give them much profit.  

 

the more you know :bagoverhead:

How much profit do you think Disney earned by including Spider-Man in three of their MCU films?

 

Anyway, it's ridiculous to think that this story is over. Negotiations will continue. Remember, when all this came about, Disney and Sony spent (at least) half a year negotiating. We know this from the Sony leak.

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10 minutes ago, OncomingStorm93 said:

How much profit do you think Disney earned by including Spider-Man in three of their MCU films?

 

Anyway, it's ridiculous to think that this story is over. Negotiations will continue. Remember, when all this came about, Disney and Sony spent (at least) half a year negotiating. We know this from the Sony leak.

maybe a little bit more for Civil War (which is still debatable). but I don't know anyone who only watched EG & IW to see spidey. 

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1 minute ago, RealLyre said:

maybe a little bit more for Civil War (which is still debatable). but I don't know anyone who only watched EG & IW to see spidey. 

Spider-Man PS4 is making bank, why do you think Sony chose Spider-Man out of all the marvel hero’s?

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From the thread above:

 

 

It’s not just Spider-man. Disney May want Spider-man, but Sony also wants to associate Venom and their Spider stuff with the MCU brand. Makes sense why they’re negotiating this long. 

 

As Wayne Brady would say: let’s s make a deal!

 

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1 hour ago, RealLyre said:

maybe a little bit more for Civil War (which is still debatable). but I don't know anyone who only watched EG & IW to see spidey. 

 

A bit like Guardian / Thor 3 played with on a different demo than usual for the MCU (F+25), BP among older African Americans, I felt that for the first Spider Man the demo was quite different than the usual MCU, in the amount of family audience and boys under 12.

 

There is reason's that there was so much grow between Avengers 1-2 and 3 and that audience diversification was probably part of it and SpiderMan played a role in that.

 

A lot of the money was into that merchandise/licensing of all sorts too, no ? Would that SpiderMan video game become that big of a best seller without those MCU attached Spider Man movies and Spider Man presence in the Avengers ?

 

I would imagine that it is somewhat non negligible and that 5% if those 2 movie grossed in average what Spider Man 3 did for Sony isn't nothing either.

 

Removing the merchandising Spider-Man 3 grossed (from the BO, HEnt, tv, etc...) 964.4M, about a $1,150 in 2019 dollars.

 

5% of that would be about $100M dollar, without spending much for it, but in reality I imagine Feige and co. got around 20 to 50% of that money in bonus so it would be quite less going into Disney own pockets.

 

I do not think it was a bad deal at all for Disney and it was not stupid at all for now that it is a proven formula to ask for even more.

 

 

 

Edited by Barnack
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40 minutes ago, Barnack said:

I would imagine that it is somewhat non negligible, that 5% if those 2 movie grossed in average what Spider Man 3 did for Sony isn't nothing either.

 

Removing the merchandising Spider-Man 3 grossed (from the BO, HEnt, tv, etc...) 964.4M, about a $1,150 in 2019 dollars.

 

5% of that would be about $100M dollar, without spending much for it , in reality I imagine Feige and co. got around 20 to 50% of that money in bonus.

 

I do not think it was a bad deal at all for Disney and it was not stupid at all for now that it is a proven formula to ask for even more.

Well it’s 5% of the 1st dollar only, so Disney wouldn’t have gotten anywhere close to $100m, they would’ve only gotten  about $3m.

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15 minutes ago, Jordanstine said:

Well it’s 5% of the 1st dollar only, so Disney wouldn’t have gotten anywhere close to $100m, they would’ve only gotten  about $3m.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-dollar_gross

 

First dollar does not equal 1st day...it means you start to get paid right from the jump - aka the 1st day of release - and don't have to wait for profitability, expense offsets, etc...1st ticket sale to last ticket sale gave Disney 5%...

 

So, Disney made out pretty well with 1st dollar...pretty damn well actually...

Edited by TwoMisfits

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20 minutes ago, Jordanstine said:

Well it’s 5% of the 1st dollar only, so Disney wouldn’t have gotten anywhere close to $100m, they would’ve only gotten  about $3m.

Not sure in which scenario that the 2 billion grosser Spider-Man 5% first dollar gross deal yield only $3M ! What do you mean but 1st dollar only being $3M ?

 

Pretty sure it is a GP-0 pool 5% gross type of deal (5% of the gross proceed, that would include getting part of any type of revenues the movie make during all is lifetime).

 

 

Edited by Barnack

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Spider-Man ps4 has nothing to do with avengers, it just sold well because it was a great game made by a developer Sony chose and now owns. Spider-Man doesn’t need the MCU to do well. It all boils down to if you believe Spider-man ever needed to be in an ensemble film to do well and clearly the evidence says he doesn’t. He’s arguably the most popular character in Marvel and he doesn’t need to be in a MCU film to thrive.

Edited by VENOM
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9 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-dollar_gross

 

First dollar does not equal 1st day...it means you start to get paid right from the jump - aka the 1st day of release - and don't have to wait for profitability, expense offsets, etc...1st ticket sale to last ticket sale gave Disney 5%...

 

So, Disney made out pretty well with 1st dollar...pretty damn well actually...

Not quite sure I understand. That wiki link only states 1st day of release, nothing about last ticket...

 

“First-dollar gross is a practice in filmmaking in which the participant receives a percentage of the gross box office revenue from a film's first day of release

 

According to this article Disney only made $1.9m from Sony for Far From Home. 

 

https://fortune.com/2019/08/21/spider-man-mcu-sony-disney-deal-collapse/

 

 

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23 minutes ago, VENOM said:

Spider-Man ps4 has nothing to do with avengers, it just sold well because it was a great game made by a developer Sony chose and now owns. Spider-Man doesn’t need the MCU to do well. It all boils down to if you believe Spider-man ever needed to be in an ensemble film to do well and clearly the evidence says he doesn’t. He’s arguably the most popular character in Marvel and he doesn’t need to be in a MCU film to thrive.

Correct that Spider doesn’t need to be an ensemble film to do well, but evidence does say that being an ensemble film with the Avengers definitely boosts his box office numbers even more. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, VENOM said:

Spider-Man ps4 has nothing to do with avengers, it just sold well because it was a great game made by a developer Sony chose and now owns. Spider-Man doesn’t need the MCU to do well. It all boils down to if you believe Spider-man ever needed to be in an ensemble film to do well and clearly the evidence says he doesn’t. He’s arguably the most popular character in Marvel and he doesn’t need to be in a MCU film to thrive.

Not sure what that sentence mean, the game has nothing to do with it sure, but how popular a franchise is directly impact sales.

 

Like movies game I doubt game can sold that well in their first week just by being great, the franchise popularity is quite relevant to how much a game sales, otherwise they would be much better to do great game without having to give so much of the revenues away to Marvel.

 

It is reasonable to assume that game sales In the scenario that there is an Amazing Spider Man 3 or a not accepted Sony reboot would have been quite inferior versus how high Spider Man was when the game got released.

Edited by Barnack

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1 hour ago, Jordanstine said:

Not quite sure I understand. That wiki link only states 1st day of release, nothing about last ticket...

 

“First-dollar gross is a practice in filmmaking in which the participant receives a percentage of the gross box office revenue from a film's first day of release

 

According to this article Disney only made $1.9m from Sony for Far From Home. 

 

https://fortune.com/2019/08/21/spider-man-mcu-sony-disney-deal-collapse/

 

 

The second sentence of the wiki article make it clearer:

First-dollar gross is a practice in filmmaking in which the participant receives a percentage of the gross box office revenue from a film's first day of release.[1][2] The participant begins sharing in the profits from the first ticket sale, not waiting until the film studio turns a profit.

 

It simply mean you get your bonus starting to accumulate from the first revenues to come in (usually box office but not always, pre-sales market territory, merchandising deal, etc... can something count toward it) in opposition to wait for the revenues to go over some point (for example profit participation), first dollar gross is not some way to say first days gross.

 

That article is just stating (if the writer isn't completely out of is element) how much of the first days haul would have wen to disney and do the calculation really strangely, you 5% of the studio gross not of the box office gross,  that article seem either completely wrong about most of it or really badly written.

 

Having that popular of a subject for click did seem to create a lot of article from people that do not seem to know some of the most basic element of film finance, but still write about it for that spectacular case even if they usually do not and never worked in distribution.

Edited by Barnack
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4 hours ago, Barnack said:

Not sure what that sentence mean, the game has nothing to do with it sure, but how popular a franchise is directly impact sales.

 

Like movies game I doubt game can sold that well in their first week just by being great, the franchise popularity is quite relevant to how much a game sales, otherwise they would be much better to do great game without having to give so much of the revenues away to Marvel.

 

It is reasonable to assume that game sales In the scenario that there is an Amazing Spider Man 3 or a not accepted Sony reboot would have been quite inferior versus how high Spider Man was when the game got released.

Do you follow games as well as movies? You need to get some perspective when it comes to games. There’s reasons why it did so well and it’s not the movies. (In fact past Spider-Man games have been tied to movies, non exclusive, and suffered because of it so this being an exclusive that wasn’t tied to a movie was a big selling point for fans.)

1. PS4 is at 100 million consoles sold, it’s dominated the generation

2. Sony exclusives games have been  sales juggernauts, Spider-Man just joined the party.

3. Everyone was craving a Spider-Man game that could top Spider-Man 2 and had pretty much had no hope until Sony announced it as an exclusive game which for many fans meant quality.

4. Sony is on something of a streak of releasing critical and commercially acclaimed exclusives, one after the other. God of War for example sold 3 million in 3 days, when Spider-Man PS4 came out it sold 3.3 million in 3 days. 

5. People love Spider-Man games and the developer who was making it that Sony chose is well respected.

Edited by VENOM
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1 minute ago, VENOM said:

Everyone was craving a Spider-Man game

I kind of doubt people would care at all for a Spider-Man game if the franchise wasn't popular. How much movies participate into this is hard to qualify but I would not imagine none at all.

 

2 minutes ago, VENOM said:

God of War for example sold 3 million in 3 days

That one of the most video game franchise ever.

 

Is there story of non-franchise video game selling like that ?

 

Those video game look terrible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Spider-Man_(2012_video_game)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Amazing_Spider-Man_2_(2014_video_game)

 

Why would people love them, what 2 spider man game from different dev would even have in common in be particularly liked by anyone ?

 

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7 hours ago, VENOM said:

Spider-Man ps4 has nothing to do with avengers, it just sold well because it was a great game made by a developer Sony chose and now owns. Spider-Man doesn’t need the MCU to do well. It all boils down to if you believe Spider-man ever needed to be in an ensemble film to do well and clearly the evidence says he doesn’t. He’s arguably the most popular character in Marvel and he doesn’t need to be in a MCU film to thrive.

Since summer 2004, Spiderman needs the MCU to be featured in watchable films.

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1 hour ago, The Futurist said:

Since summer 2004, Spiderman needs the MCU to be featured in watchable films.

81s554UyB+L._SX342_.jpg

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9 hours ago, VENOM said:

Spider-Man ps4 has nothing to do with avengers, it just sold well because it was a great game made by a developer Sony chose and now owns. Spider-Man doesn’t need the MCU to do well. It all boils down to if you believe Spider-man ever needed to be in an ensemble film to do well and clearly the evidence says he doesn’t. He’s arguably the most popular character in Marvel and he doesn’t need to be in a MCU film to thrive.

1. such statements are never 100% correct

2. to do well is not the same as doing its own record breaking extremely good, see it being the new #1 Sony release, surpassing 007

3. nope, he is not the most popular character in the cinema part of entertainment. He is it maybe for parts of the younger audience (that are a sadly small part of GA nowadays), and to a degree for certain gamer fans.

 

Just in case:

I not only teach media at a school, but I also run the school's library. Here are books, comics, movies for all of the character, I see pretty good which characters get picked by pupils the most, also which of them also pick games related material and so on.

I also discuss a lot with adults of my circle, parents of the school (who are in part not happy I offer those kind of books as well), and other reasons I get input by others about movies and books.

He was #1 for an older than now teens generation, like my 6 nephews, who are all in their late '20 to late '30, but not all of them even watch CBMs anymore, and as far as they do still watch them (not only them, also their friends and families), they love the actual MCU line up at least the same. And lots of the DCs and so on,

 

The most of the audience isn't as limited to one character/world as some here seem to be, in the end it's story has to appeal and the execution to be done very well, way more important than game connections in the sum.

 

edit:

Btw, the Verse movie you choose as an example is not live action (that is what's the discussion here is about) and as such not really an good example IMHO, plus its BO is sadly a bit less than at least some here hoped for also

If the name would be as strong as you think I guess the BO would have been higher

 

Edited by terrestrial
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14 hours ago, HeadShot said:

And there has been plenty of MCU movies that are better than anything you mentioned. Being part of a universe doesn't restrict shit. GOTG is nothing like Winter Soldier.

Of course MCU has made great movies but all of them can't be great the reason being they have to follow a certain script and the director may want something different but since it's connected it has its limitations. Look there are obviously some exception as you mentioned GOTG, Winter Soldier , Thor Ragnarok some director manage that even with constrictions but arguably the thing is lot of the great movies are great simply because they are true vision of the director. 

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