Jake Gittes Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 To be blunt, I don't see how downloading a movie is any different than borrowing a DVD from someone. Except in this case I don't personally know them. But so what? Most of the movies I download are also those I wouldn't be able to see in the theater or buy even if I wanted to. They don't get a theatrical release here and/or a DVD release or an online release. Other times they are only released in dubbed versions whereas I'd like to see them in their original language. High-profile recent examples: OJ Made in America, The Wailing, Sing Street, The Invitation, Knight of Cups, any Netflix movie. 99.9% of documentaries, and don't even get me started on classics and cult films. There are so many of those I would never had a chance to see if not for torrent sites, and in that respect they are invaluable. And no, I'm not gonna wait for years and years if I want to see something. If a movie is released in theaters here in its original language (or I'm fine with watching the dubbed version) I make a trip to the theater every chance I get. And I have several hundred DVDs and blu-rays; I'll buy anything if I'm interested and it's in good quality, because I like owning physical objects and I want to support the people putting them together (even if it's plainly obvious that whole industry is on its way out). Still entirely cool with downloading anything I want. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukaio101 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, That One Guy said: So, this is a topic that has pretty much gotten be pissed the fuck off recently. Whenever I hear someone say they pirate a movie, it's one of those things where I don't understand why they do it, and why they're so lazy and can't just drive a few minutes to your nearest theater and pay to see the movie. Um, that kinda assumes multiple things there. Firstly that they live anywhere near a cinema, secondly that the cinema in question is actually playing the movie they want, thirdly that they have enough money to spare to see the movie and finally that they have the time to spare for 2 hours sitting in a darkened cinema as opposed to watching it at home (where they can get other stuff done at the same time). Now, I'm not saying that any of this necessarily excuses pirating, but the alternative is not always as simple as you're spelling it out to be. Now, personally, if I had to guess the biggest reason piracy is so popular, I'd say 'because it's convenient'. I admit to pirating some stuff now and again but, honestly, the vast majority of stuff I pirate are either films I already own but can't be arsed to dig out or stuff that doesn't look like it's going to get a release here (home video or cinema) any time soon. And do note that I have a 'Watch as many films as you want' Cinema card, a Netflix subscription and a genuinely enormous DVD collection, so it's not like I'm any stranger to spending money on films. Piracy is popular because it offers you almost any movie you want to watch, downloadable/streamable with the click of a button and all for a reasonable price (specifically zero price). No matter how you look at it, that's a tempting offer. And I'd wager that if the studios could provide something as convenient and easy to use (like a Netflix with an even bigger selection) and charged a reasonable price for it, a lot of pirates would switch to that. (Not all, mind, but there are always going to be some assholes). 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Panda Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The only way to stop film piracy is to provide incentives to do otherwise. Whether or not it's morally wrong. The Spotify model that was made for music is probably the best option for movies. I personally don't tend to pirate, I won't lie that I've done it before, but the majority of the time I watch my movies legally. I especially watch them legally if I have high respect for the people who worked on the film. I also don't see a point in shaming people who pirate. Cash is hard to come by and it's available easily and without consequence, of course people are going to pirate. Is it a problem for the film industry in the future? Sure, they just need to figure out a workaround, and the shame game that's been played right now obviously hasn't incentivized anyone not to pirate. Anyways, I think discussing solutions studios could use for pirating (such as finding a profitable way to offer their movie through streaming programs such as Netflix or HBOGO) is the best way to go. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That One Girl Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2022 by That One Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmandeep Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Pirating movies I think hurts the business no doubt about it... I do not think Pirating TV shows does as I think many Shows really exploded their audiences due to greater awareness and viewership. More people, watch the show on TV or streaming services I believe. I think most people I know have HBO because they watched Game of Thrones Season 1 online first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That One Girl Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2022 by That One Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomCat Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, That One Guy said: Alright, I don't wanna stray too far off topic with all of the country's past laws (and no, I don't think every illegal act is immoral, but a good majority are), but one thing that is immoral (to me and I'm sure many people) is stealing. It's also illegal because it takes money away from the people who made the product and therefore harms their business. While some may argue that stealing isn't immoral (somehow), let's just say that it is for now. If you do steal, then on the basis of many people's moralities, you did something immoral. Piracy is stealing, so if you find there's something wrong with stealing but are fine with piracy, then that's a bit hypocritical to me. My point is that morality is subjective, and as you said it's immoral to MANY people, not all people. And I don't really believe in wholesale judging people by my own morality. I'm find with judging based on law, but I know my morals and the law aren't always the same, and I don't hold people up to my own morals, that's impossible to do, and isn't fair to another person. You're equating law and morality. You find it morally wrong, but what you find immoral is not the same as the person next to you finds immoral. Doesn't make Lordmandeep any less a criminal by breaking the law, so how about leaving morals out of this and keep it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrestrial Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 32 minutes ago, RandomJC said: Morality is subjective based on cultural standards. It's wrong to impart your morals onto someone else. 20 minutes ago, RandomJC said: Because morality and legality are two different things. Certainly in the US it's been long held that the legal system should not legislate on morality. To put it another way, it isn't illegal to murder someone because it's immoral, it's illegal because it harms a person that the law is meant to protect. To reverse that, do you view everything that is legal to be moral? Looking back fifty or so years, when it was illegal for a white woman to marry a black man, was that also immoral? Or in the 1920s when it was illegal to drink, was drinking only immoral during those 13 or so years? I think I see what you mean, but theft is a crime in every country and was as far as I know also in every culture in the past. As I see it, theft getting judged / seen as a crime it is a basic rule, needed for any society to work, like murder being judged as a crime too is a basic rule for a society to work. As such I think it is not about to 'impart' morals on others, its about calling out someone or pointing out to someone that a certain act is a crime. In my POV there is no excuse for theft for non essentials e.g. luxury goods (as films are). If someone is without means, living on the streets, .... you'll get the drift, and steels bread, that kind of theft makes the person in my POV not to a thief, that's about survival, if there is no other possibility to get bread e.g. per a soup kitchen or... But someone who steels for e.g. being able to discuss a film with others without paying for it or seeing it in another legal way, is a thief. Not only in my POV, but in every legal's system on earth POV. Edited December 30, 2016 by terrestrial 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukaio101 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 If you're basing your main anti-piracy argument on 'It's immoral' then you're probably not going to get very far with a lot of people. Yeah, it probably is immoral but, in the eyes of public perception, it's about on the same level as how 'stealing a pen from a bank' is immoral. Especially since there's no guarantee piraters would watch the legit version were the pirate copy not available. 3 minutes ago, That One Guy said: If it's not near a cinema near you or you don't have enough time to see it, just wait a few months for a DVD/Blu-Ray/digital release. And if you don't want to wait? A few months is a long-ass time to wait for the distributors to get off their ass, especially if it's already been shown that there's a viable copy available (assuming we're not talking camrips here.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomCat Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Just now, terrestrial said: I see what you mean, but theft is a crime in every country and was as far as I know also in every culture in the past. As I see it, theft getting judged / seen as a crime it is a basic rule, needed for any society to work, like murder being judged as a crime too is a basic rule for a society to work. As such I think it is not about to 'impart' morals on others, its about calling out someone or pointing out to someone that a certain act is a crime. In my POV there is no excuse for theft for non essentials e.g. luxury goods (as films are). If someone is without means, living on the streets, .... you'll get the drift, and steels bread, that kind of theft makes the person in my POV not to a thief, that's about survival, if there is no other possibility to get bread e.g. per a soup kitchen or... But someone who steels for e.g. being able to discuss a film with others without paying for it or seeing it in another legal way, is a thief. Not only in my POV, but in every legal's system on earth POV. I agree, 100%. I just don't agree with making it a moral judgment, I believe it should be one based on the law. I think it's wrong to pirate movies, and accept I'm in the wrong when I do it. I'd agree it's morally wrong, as well. Just when holding it up to someone else's actions, I'll rely on what the law says, over what my beliefs are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That One Girl Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2022 by That One Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxtreme Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Question: If I buy a DVD off my friend for $5... Did I just support the movie industry? Nope. Was that legal? No idea Should it be legal if it isn't? Of fucking course, at least in my opinion. He can do whatever he wants with his property. Edited December 30, 2016 by Daxtreme typo :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That One Girl Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2022 by That One Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomCat Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Daxtreme said: Question: If I buy a DVD off my friend for $5... Did I just support the movie industry? Nope. Was that legal? No idea Should it be legal if it isn't? Of fucking course, at least in my opinion. He can do whatever he wants with his property. I'll refrain from getting too geeky, but yes it is legal, least in the US. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmandeep Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Firstly I think we are being dated here.. Renting movies ?? Dvd and even Bluerays? People have mostly going digital with movies these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That One Girl Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2022 by That One Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morieris Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 32 minutes ago, That One Guy said: Well, I suppose if you don't want to give money to the filmmakers who worked their asses off to the get the movie to be made, then sure. But it is technically stealing, so y'know. There's people like you and most of the board here who are paying for it. And even if it flops, a lot of these people get chance after chance in the movie industry. So I guess I find it a little hard to care if I steal a movie that stars Indistinguishable Beefy Dude who has already signed up for another tentpole that will inevitably fail or legendary filmmaker who has all the connections to not suffer from losing my 5$. I'll go out of my way to pay for smaller movies - hell, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in my town who saw Boy and the World in March. I got another question for you though; do you consider it stealing if you have a Netflix account and have to use a VPN to "go" to a different country to watch a movie yours doesn't have? I did that a lot last year (before their VPN blockers kicked in) and ended up buying a lot of (used) blu rays of the movies I liked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmandeep Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, That One Guy said: When I'm saying renting, I'm referring off of sites like Google Play, or on On Demand, or where ever, for the most part. But yeah, some people do still buy DVD/Blu-Ray. Things have changed... I used to buy dozens of Dvds a year in the mid 2000's but the only BlueRays I bought since 2008 are: The Dark Knight Avatar Avengers Star Wars 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That One Girl Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2022 by That One Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morieris Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) 30 minutes ago, That One Guy said: If you pirate a movie, it's not just stealing from the filmmakers, it's also stealing from a lot of the people who played a smaller, less instrumental role in getting the film made. Some of these people barely have any money. How would they feel if they heard they could've gotten even more money from the film had a huge majority not pirated it? That makes a lot of us, honestly. And movies are a luxury, I wholly admit that. I'm not hip to the movie making business, so correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't most people who aren't the stars (well, they get BO bonuses) and executives paid before the thing is even released? Or is it a case by case basis? I didn't think people on the production (editing, scriptwriting, etc) side got any box office bonuses long after their role has been done. Edited December 30, 2016 by Morieris 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...