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***************Stephen King's IT BOOK SPOILER THREAD************** BOOK SPOILERS ARE FAIR GAME MOVIE SPOILERS ARE NOT!!!**** ONLY DISCUSS THE BOOK THERE IS ANOTHER THREAD FOR THE MOVIE.

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34 minutes ago, junkshop36 said:

Since I have no plans to read the book and it's pretty obvious the scene won't be in the movie; what exactly IS the point of the orgy scene? 

It obviously a reflection on the author.

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7 hours ago, AndyK said:

I am absolutely appalled at the kid orgy thing.

 

There can never ever be a justification for that in such a work of fiction.

 

There is justification of it.  In the context of the book and why Bev decides to do it, it all makes sense.  In their world, to them, it makes sense.

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6 hours ago, junkshop36 said:

Since I have no plans to read the book and it's pretty obvious the scene won't be in the movie; what exactly IS the point of the orgy scene? 

 

Many people have problems with this scene, and for good reason. It's a difficult idea to get past, because to describe it baldly, it is essentially pre-adolescent boys engaging in group sex with one girl. This triggers many of our most ingrained taboos. So I'm going to offer my thoughts on what King was trying to do with this scene, and if you still can't get past it, I don't blame you. But here is how I interpret that scene.

 

This group of friends share a mystical bond. This is what gives them the power to fight back against It. The magical aspects of this bond are repeatedly emphasized in the book. After each encountering and escaping from It, indicating that these children are special, they then are drawn together by what feels like external forces. They discover that they are at their strongest only when all seven are together. They engage in rituals and magical thinking to guide them and heighten their power (smoke ceremony, silver bullets). Something unexplainable guides them through each of these rituals and each new decision; call it "ka".This is a recurring theme in King's more epic novels. He often writes of a mystical force, the "White," that guides (but doesn't control) the heroes to take a stand, to "stand and be true" for the greater good, whatever that takes. This is the force that is personified by the Turtle. There is no doubt that this particular ka-tet has good on their side, that their actions are being guided by something much bigger than themselves.After the battle with It, that bond is weakened. The children are panicked and lost; the group is falling apart. That is when Beverly acts. It is important to note that she is the instigator of the sex, even when the boys don't want to. It is her idea. Because all of the boys love her, each in his own way, this ritual -- and it is a ritual as much as any other ritual the group has engaged in -- works. The bond is re-established, their fear is broken, their confidence is restored, and they know which way to go. Beverly has saved them.

 

Consider who these children are and what makes them so special. They are all outsiders. That is why they are called the Losers' Club. For one reason or another, each of them was ostracized before they found one another. Each one also brings their own special talent or power to the group. That is why they form such a strong, cohesive whole. They are like the perfect weapon against It.Beverly is the only female member of the Losers' Club. She has suffered abuse from her father, motivated in no small part by her father's possessiveness of her and desire to keep her from being "taken" by any other male. "I worry about you, Bevvie. I worry a lot." All her life, she is at the mercy of the men in her life, not allowed to own her own body or her own sexuality. When she gives herself freely to the other boys, she is asserting her power and rejecting what she has been taught her whole life. She is doing the worst thing her father could imagine, the worst thing she could ever possibly do in his eyes, and because she is doing it freely and purely out of love, it is the thing that saves them. At its essence, her act isn't about sex at all, but about love and about her power.I think King chose this particular act deliberately,  knowing it would get the reaction that it got. Because it is so extreme, it is also so much more powerful than if Bevvie had simply kissed each boy or told them she loved them. And by presenting it as ritual, it is clear that this is not about pleasure or shock value. Rather, sex in this context is something sacred, a profound act that can express love and strengthen bonds in a way that no other act is capable of doing.The power of this scene, at least for me, is it forces me to move past the ickiness and my own cultural taboos, and to appreciate the power and beauty of Beverly's act.

 

In the broadest sense, IT is about corruption and loss of innocence, and at some level the hold that Pennywise has on Derry is an amplification of the corruption of ideals and innocent belief that comes with adulthood.   The adults of Derry have turned their back on the  reality of the town's corruption at the hands of Pennywise; conversely the kids understand that Pennywise is the embodiment of the corruption of the town and their own elders. Adolescence and the sexual awakening that comes with it are hugely powerful in King's world....note that the threats the Clown (and many of the indirect threats felt from the corrupted town) makes against the kids are often sexual in nature -- especially for Bev who is just marking time before her own father escalates his abuse of her.   As kids, the Loser's club can see the Clown and the corruption he represents in a way the adults cannot.  At the same time, the kids' own developing sexual awareness is beginning to crack the group apart, as eventually happens to any group of platonic friends going through puberty, and as a result their ability to see and combat Pennywise begins to crumble.  But the kids (especially Bev) neatly turn the tables in the only way they can by taking control of their own loss of innocence, and reaffirm their bond to each other in the process.   

 

 I would also highlight the fact that the Losers are at the cusp of adolescence, at the end of childhood. That's a powerful time, and a powerful time for Stephen King as well. Many of his greatest characters and stories are set at that time in someone's life. There are several ceremonies that are communions throughout the book. At one point, each Loser takes a puff of Eddie's inhaler. The smokehouse. It's as if these young people are unconsciously - or consciously - searching for ways to focus their power and turn it to the White.

 

So bottom line is that by each of them losing their virginity with Bev, they will each have a bond with the other, one that cannot be broken.  

 

You can disagree with the scene, thaty's fine, it's not an easy scene for people to digest.  But King didn't include it to be a creepy old man, there was a method and a logic to it.  To me, it makes perfect sense.  

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They're not going to substitute it. You can't get even half the details of the book into the movie....okay maybe I'm exaggerating a little bit but that kind of stuff can easily be avoided and the film will still be just as powerful. If that appear ed in the movie I don't think it would make any sense because you truly need the Thousand pages that comes before it in order to fully understand what they're doing and why it's happening.

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3 hours ago, Stutterng baumer Denbrough said:

I hope the story of the Blackspot makes it into the movie....then they can get Dick O'Halloran into the story, which would be very cool.

 

I think they can fit it in since it will most likely be in part 2 where they can probably use it but that could be a long segment.  Or at the very least, they will probably make mention of it since they can add the bird with the balloons thing to keep fitting things together

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7 hours ago, K1stpierre said:

So from what people have said that have already seen it, there seems to be a dispute over the georgie whether it's gory or not. I can't imagine they'd be able to show much gore even with the R rating as it's kids. Violent? Sure.

Halloween 3 could do it 35 years ago. A kid gets pretty much his face chewed up. So they can do it gory as hell.

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