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Eric Addams

Joker | Oct 4 2019 | BE WARNED | ZERO TOLERANCE

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8 minutes ago, JB33 said:

People here in North America are getting so self-righteous and insufferable. It's causing some pretty serious friction because, apart from the people who can just tune it out and move on with their life, it's causing people on the other side of the coin to double down on their views and fight back. I don't want to be too dramatic but I feel like there's this tension brewing that is going to come to a head soon in some way, shape or form.

There's already a Civil War in America it's just happening in a different way.  It's turned violent on occasion and it's going to get worse heading into the election year. '

 

But like I said before,   most people are moderates and don't care about any of it. It's just horrible that a vocal minority are causing otherwise sensible people to pick and choose sides. 

 

Joker is a microcosm of the problem.  Without European critics this movie would probably not even be fresh and that's crazy to me how a movie can be heralded as a masterpiece by so many respected film enthusiasts and win the Golden Lion and now others are trashing it.   It usually doesn't play out like this and it's all politically driven. 

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@TMP For all the shit people (especially you) have given WB for doing crappy marketing this year, this movie might have the best marketing campaign for a movie this year after Endgame. Hell, I would even say it's more ingenious than Endgame's. WB clearly knew that they had a monster in their hands and using that to their advantage is brilliant marketing.

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This film truly shows real image of woke american press and it's very ugly, they don't even realise that.

Edited by Firepower
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I have made my fair share of jokes about reviews of this film, but I feel like criticism being thrown against this movie for purely political reasons is a very small minority. I know the EW review just seems lazy, dismissive even, as the furthest it goes in really evaluating the film is saying that Phoenix gives a good performance and it outright refuses to grade the film (though one could say that the refusal to grade the film is noble as the reviewer KNOWS she wouldn't be able to evaluate the film from a technical or truly critical standpoint given political stance, however publishing the review at all, especially listing in on RT, kind of ruins that nobleness). And of course Ehrlich's review and the subsequent "incel-friendly" article header probably falls into that category of shallow criticism as well.

 

HOWEVER, I don't believe that saying that a film's message or themes are muddled, unclear, or lack necessary complexity is invalid criticism, and that's honestly what I've heard a lot of. Analysis of a movie's themes and the way the movie conveys those themes is a major part of film criticism. I've seen criticism that the film that the screenplay isn't sophisticated enough to handle its weighty themes or fully say what it wishes to say. Even many positive reviews of the film criticize the screenplay from a macro standpoint (I haven't heard anything about dialogue really). For example, Chris Evangelista's 8/10 review says this:

 

Quote

Joker‘s script, courtesy of Phillips and Scott Silver, is often painfully simplistic – the type of script where characters literally spell-out their motivations in blunt, unsubtle ways... A smarter script would take these ideas and turn them into something with deeper meaning.

 

BBC's 3/5 (counted ultimately as rotten) review similarly says that the film's screenplay is too "superficial" to truly be taken as the social commentary it likely wishes to be (and the review in general is about as apolitical as a movie review of this nature can be, and of course not an American review).

 

For some critics, screenplay holds more weight on how they view a film than others. And that's not necessarily political, just personal preference. It's not like there exists an objective weighing of aspects of film.

 

I'm only saying that to dismiss every negative review and every piece of criticism along with it, assuming their distaste for the film to be purely political, is not the right mindset and it's easy for it to become that way. It feels like certain (select few) reviews ruined it for others that wish to criticize the film, simply by taking an overly shallow approach to their criticism or refusing to look deeper into analyzing a movie they've deemed not worth their time.

 

Especially because about nobody here has seen the film, being overly defensive of it is a bit silly.

 

I personally feel I'll like it based on both the criticisms (which I don't feel would become too overbearing for me) and praise, but I'm not about to dismiss all criticism as almost a political counter-effort. Sorry that I wrote an essay.

Edited by harrisonisdead
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Its like the controversy around the Dave Chappelle Sketch lately...

 

Very few people were offended by it, but they were very loud about it. 99% of people just watched it and laughed. 

 

What did this 'controversy'  lead to? It lead to even more free publicity for the show and importantly a lot of traffic to those news articles saying that Chappelle should be cancelled. 

 

So frankly I question if some people pushing these ideals actually care about this issues or just focused on increasing revenues if there is some controversy to exploit. 

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9 minutes ago, harrisonisdead said:

I have made my fair share of jokes about reviews of this film, but I feel like criticism being thrown against this movie for purely political reasons is a very small minority. I know the EW review just seems lazy, dismissive even, as the furthest it goes in really evaluating the film is saying that Phoenix gives a good performance and it outright refuses to grade the film (though one could say that the refusal to grade the film is noble as the reviewer KNOWS she wouldn't be able to evaluate the film from a technical or truly critical standpoint given political stance, however publishing the review at all, especially listing in on RT, kind of ruins that nobleness). And of course Ehrlich's review and the subsequent "incel-friendly" article header probably falls into that category of shallow criticism as well.

 

HOWEVER, I don't believe that saying that a film's message or themes are muddled, unclear, or lack necessary complexity is invalid criticism, and that's honestly what I've heard a lot of. Analysis of a movie's themes and the way the movie conveys those themes is a major part of film criticism. I've seen criticism that the film that the screenplay isn't sophisticated enough to handle its weighty themes or fully say what it wishes to say. Even many positive reviews of the film criticize the screenplay from a macro standpoint (I haven't heard anything about dialogue really). For example, Chris Evangelista's 8/10 review says this:

 

 

BBC's 3/5 (counted ultimately as rotten) review similarly says that the film's screenplay is too "superficial" to truly be taken as the social commentary it likely wishes to be (and the review in general is about as apolitical as a movie review of this nature can be, and of course not an American review).

 

For some critics, screenplay holds more weight on how they view a film than others. And that's not necessarily political, just personal preference. It's not like there exists an objective weighing of aspects of film.

 

I'm only saying that to dismiss every negative review and every piece of criticism along with it, assuming their distaste for the film to be purely political, is not the right mindset and it's easy for it to become that way. It feels like certain (select few) reviews ruined it for others that wish to criticize the film, simply by taking an overly shallow approach to their criticism or refusing to look deeper into analyzing a movie they've deemed not worth their time.

 

Especially because about nobody here has seen the film, being overly defensive of it is a bit silly.

 

I personally feel I'll like it based on both the criticisms (which I don't feel would become too overbearing for me) and praise, but I'm not about to dismiss all criticism as almost a political counter-effort. Sorry that I wrote an essay.

Good post. I'm fine with the legitimate criticism, as with any film.

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I'm an incel who saw extremely violent Joker leaks and I wasn't compelled to do that stuff to Feinberg or anyone else. So fuck off, Scott, and go back to interviewing non-existing Oscar insiders. Everyone knows you make that shit up. 

Edited by Valonqar

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I'm perfectly fine with legitimate criticism about the movie itself, but most of the negative reviews so far are political/agenda driven, some of the "reviewers" even confess that it's a great movie, but they're offended, so they are gonna shit on it (like Feinberg above). This is just embarassing.

Edited by Firepower

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1 hour ago, Firepower said:

They really should have missed Toronto and just release it on October 4 following Venice hype.

why?

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4 minutes ago, LOGAN'sLuckyRun said:

Why was my post deleted?

Might have been a meme.

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Just now, cannastop said:

Might have been a meme.

So you're telling me that my memes are so overused and unfunny dank that it got deleted?

 

AWESOME!!! 😎

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11 minutes ago, Ryan Reynolds said:

 

I just... sure, but what's to be done about this from a filmmaking perspective? Are we gonna stop making dark movies and give in to the mass shooters? That's not really the precedent we should want set for the film industry.

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12 minutes ago, Ryan Reynolds said:

 

I'm honestly at a loss...does he truly think that this movie is going to cause mass shootings? Even IF this movie inspires a nut to start shooting...that says far, far, far more about America's monumentally idiotic gun laws and their general outlook on mental illness than what the film supposedly incites.

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7 minutes ago, LOGAN'sLuckyRun said:

Is that true?

Obviously cause this is my most anticipated movie and only an incel is looking forward to it. That's what twitter has been saying. :lol:

 

@Noctis No but he honestly thinks that he'll get record number of clicks by tweeting such an obvious bait. 

Edited by Valonqar
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