Classic Conversation Thread

[grim22]

3 minutes ago, Nova said:

I have no idea why Twitter isn’t doing more to have the video removed. Anytime I go to check for updates, it’s the same video being played. And now other sites are uploading it. Why anyone wants to see people being gunned/cornered into a wall and being killed as if a game of COD is on is beyond me. 

Because Twitter is a horrible horrible website and is probably partially responsible for the state of the world right now. It unwittingly became a good gathering spot for neo-Nazis and then decided they like having that user base around.

[DeeCee]

The 3rd Test between New Zealand and Bangladesh has been cancelled.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12213061

 

It would have been across the road from the mosque location.

[JB33]

4 hours ago, Verrows said:

Hi everyone I'm new here! I was referred by a friend (Hey @JB33!!). I love movies and I am just learning about the whole box office thing.

 

Quick question....why can't I upload a profile photo?

So you joined the madhouse huh? Welcome! Take a moment to check out the Fanboy Wars thread and say hi to the Cameron fans. That's part of your initiation.

[Verrows]

3 minutes ago, JB33 said:

So you joined the madhouse huh? Welcome! Take a moment to check out the Fanboy Wars thread and say hi to the Cameron fans. That's part of your initiation.

Yes you convinced me enough to join. I like James Cameron but i think im way more of a JJ Abrams fan!

[JB33]

1 minute ago, Verrows said:

Yes you convinced me enough to join. I like James Cameron but i think im way more of a JJ Abrams fan!

Alias/Super 8/TFA for the win!

 

Also, just found out about the tragedy in New Zealand. My God....no words.

[DeeCee]

Police just said there were a number of IED's that have been made safe.

 

4 people are in custody.

 

3 men and 1 women.

[filmlover]

36 minutes ago, grim22 said:

Because Twitter is a horrible horrible website and is probably partially responsible for the state of the world right now. It unwittingly became a good gathering spot for neo-Nazis and then decided they like having that user base around.

Twitter has given toxicity that we see today in all of its ugly facets validation. Burn it all down.

Edited March 15, 2019 by filmlover

[Porthos]

I'm going to say something here, and I want to be VERY careful in how I am saying it.

 

I am already seeing folks online get upset at people reporting on this sicko's manifesto and saying "We're doing what he wants" and "We're giving him the notoriety he craves".

 

You know what?  Quite possibly.  At the same time shining a light on the abhorrent ideology of these peckers and pointing out the consequences of ignoring it all...  Well, all I have to say is that sunshine is the best disinfectant.

 

No, don't go publishing his livestream. But do let people know that this rising tide of hatred is going to keep encouraging folks like this to do evil and monstrous deeds.  And the best way to stop it is to not give in to the hatred he so badly wants to stoke.

 

So, yes.  Makes sure people know about what he is trying to do. Yes, make sure that folks know what happens when we continually try to stoke fear and division.  Make it so the type of environment which he grew out of is antithetical to our values and beliefs.

 

 

You can't stop it completely, but one can sure as hell make it so it's as rare as possible.

 

In short, it's not about him and his notoriety.  It's about us and our society (using a global 'us' here since I'm not from NZ).  Frankly, I don't care if he gets infamous from this or not.  I do care about making it so it is much less likely that folks like him appear in the future.

 

[JB33]

2 minutes ago, Porthos said:

I'm going to say something here, and I want to be VERY careful in how I am saying it.

 

I am already seeing folks online get upset at people reporting on this sicko's manifesto and saying "We're doing what he wants" and "We're giving him the notoriety he craves".

 

You know what?  Quite possibly.  At the same time shining a light on the abhorrent ideology of these peckers and pointing out the consequences of ignoring it all...  Well, all I have to say is that sunshine is the best disinfectant.

 

No, don't go publishing his livestream. But do let people know that this rising tide of hatred is going to keep encouraging folks like this to do evil and monstrous deeds.  And the best way to stop it is to not give in to the hatred he so badly wants to stoke.

 

So, yes.  Makes sure people know about what he is trying to do. Yes, make sure that folks know what happens when we continually try to stoke fear and division.  Make it so the type of environment which he grew out of is antithetical to our values and beliefs.

 

 

You can't stop it completely, but one can sure as hell make it so it's as rare as possible.

 

In short, it's not about him and his notoriety.  It's about us and our society (using a global 'us' here since I'm not from NZ).  Frankly, I don't care if he gets infamous from this or not.  I do care about making it so it is much less likely that folks like him appear in the future.

 

Well said.

[Barnack]

16 minutes ago, Porthos said:

In short, it's not about him and his notoriety.  It's about us and our society (using a global 'us' here since I'm not from NZ).  Frankly, I don't care if he gets infamous from this or not.  I do care about making it so it is much less likely that folks like him appear in the future.

 

Thus the debate with is it a good idea to publish the manifesto, perpetrator do not necessarily want to be famous at all (like he say himself I do not care, who remember who was piloting the plane on the 9-11 attack), but they almost certainly want the video and manifesto to reach people and for the "work" to be famous.  If the content of the manifest get a lot of traction it can create incentive and motivation for the next one currently planing doing it and wanting something to get traction out there.

 

How much of is this is an ecologic-nazy act, anti capitalist, etc.... part of it true or some calculated manipulation to make eco-panic/anti trade talk seem like it encourage eco-terrorism ? (This is pure speculation, pushing it, but that a bit of the danger of reading minutes after the event stuff and sometime just part of a document and taking it literally/seriously/at surface, he said video game didn't inspire him for doing it and he film himself pretty much has if it was a first person shooter while doing it)

 

A middle ground, first letting the expert study it, analyse it, before spreading it out of any context could make a lot of sense.

 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Barnack

[Verrows]

19 minutes ago, JB33 said:

Well said.

I agree with JB33 this is very well said

[Porthos]

38 minutes ago, Barnack said:

Thus the debate with is it a good idea to publish the manifesto, perpetrator do not necessarily want to be famous at all (like he say himself I do not care, who remember who was piloting the plane on the 9-11 attack), but they almost certainly want the video and manifesto to reach people and for the "work" to be famous. 

 

How much of is this is an ecologic-nazy act, anti capitalist, etc.... part of it true or some calculated manipulation to make eco-panic/anti trade talk seem like it encourage eco-terrorism ?

 

A middle ground, first letting the expert study it, analyse it, before spreading it out of any context could make a lot of sense.

My counterpoint is that The Turner Diaries are a rightly infamous piece of work which exists for only one reason: To ferment race war.

 

It's been cited time and time again as nearly a holy bible for reactionary whackos.

 

But most of the time it's irrelevant because the underlying symptoms which cause these reactionary wackos to surface aren't present. For quite a while in America it was a nearly forgotten piece of literature that only occasionally resurfaced, only to be consigned once more to the dustbin of history.

 

Like, take Andrs Breivik in 2011.  He clearly wanted to make dozens, if not hundreds, of copycats to follow in his footsteps. Yet it is only since the rise of the alt-right in the last couple of years that folks have been actually following in his footsteps.  It wasn't the publishing of his manifesto or reporting on his sickness that did anything; it was the change in society.

 

If Breivik hadn't existed, they would have latched onto someone else and acted in that person's name.  Sadly there is no shortage of 'inspirations' for these folks to follow.

 

A better example would be Ted Kaczynski. His manifesto has been all but forgotten.  Yes, there is what can almost only be called a cult of Kaczynski deep deep deep underground in the US. And his manifesto has clearly inspired them.  But he's not gaining much, if any, traction in the US because the overall socio-political environment ain't conducive to them.  The days of Earth First! and the rest running around causing trouble are long past (which isn't to say they can't come back).

 

I guess the way I would put it is this: I am far more concerned with folks  ginning up fear, hatred, and division than I am of some person's manifesto.  And that is because one is much much much more likely to breed hatred and extremism than the other.

 

I get what you're saying.  I just think the if society starts to deal with the systemic, underlying, problems then his manifesto becomes irrelevant.  And if society doesn't deal with the systemic, underlying, problem, some other sicko will come down the pipe with their manifesto in hand, even if this manifesto is mostly ignored, causing untold harm in the process.

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Porthos

[Darth Lehnsherr]

1 hour ago, DeeCee said:

The 3rd Test between New Zealand and Bangladesh has been cancelled.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12213061

 

It would have been across the road from the mosque location.

I hope this doesn't deter subcontinent teams from touring NZ in the near future.  

[lorddemaxus]

8chan (the forum he used to frequent post on) is now applauding the shooter on their shithole of a forum. I have no clue how these people can so evil.

Edited March 15, 2019 by lorddemaxus

[BoxOfficeZ]

19 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

8chan (the forum he used to frequent post on) is now applauding the shooter on their shithole of a forum. I have no clue how these people can so evil.

Can we just delete the site off the internet?

 

[ChipDerby]

2 hours ago, grim22 said:

Because Twitter is a horrible horrible website and is probably partially responsible for the state of the world right now. It unwittingly became a good gathering spot for neo-Nazis and then decided they like having that user base around.

 

That's what happens when the CEO is a white supremacist.

 

Also, youtube needs to pull pewdiepie from their site. 

[Porthos]

40 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

8chan (the forum he used to frequent post on) is now applauding the shooter on their shithole of a forum. I have no clue how these people can so evil.

 

20 minutes ago, BoxOfficeZ said:

Can we just delete the site off the internet?

 

I am reminded of Popehat's rule about goats and irony (a very much NSFW rule, BTW).

 

Even if they are doing this to be 'edgy' and 'ironic' (and, spoiler alert: they're not), they're still cheering on mass murder and evil.  Says everything you need to know about them and their worldview.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Porthos

[aabattery]

 

Awful, awful stuff. Can't think of anything like this ever happening here as long as I've been alive. Tragedy-wise the earthquakes come close, but an earthquake isn't evil like a shooter is.

[Gamora]

Bloody hell, it was horrific when the number was 27 but 40? It just keeps getting worse.

[oMeriMombatti]

Shooting the people and then streaming it, what has the world come to ? My heart goes out to all the people and their families. I have been to NZ once and it's a beautiful beautiful country and doesn't deserve shit like this, hell no country does. I hope God gives strength to people of NZ in this time of crisis.