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Just now, Thanos Legion said:

If NDT has a history of insensitive statements on this topic that I’m unaware of, that could color things in a different light. But comparing the reaction to today’s tweet in a vacuum, it’s kind of perplexing.

He's known for being very literal-minded.

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13 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

 

I’m not sure I’ll be free, alas.

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2 hours ago, Barnack said:

Depend what you mean by virtue signaling, a Nazi tattoo is a classic and one of the biggest virtue signaling there is (the more costly the signaling the stronger it tend to be),

And that's the most ironic thing about all of this in that some, and I do stress some so I'm not talking about anyone here, of the people who use the term "virtue signal" as an huge insult are some of the biggest virtue signalers around.  When the term is stripped of its current usage that is, as noted by yourself in an earlier post.

 

It's much like how the term "NPC" is flung around by the very people who speak in nothing but cliches and buzzwords themselves.

 

2 hours ago, Barnack said:

And if it became possible can gain all virtue status simply by saying stuff instead of doing something difficult, I am not sure that is a winning situation for society.

 

It's not about gaining "all" virtue status though, but helping promote good things and dissuade bad things.  I drew an analogy to peer pressure and I think it works.  For a while it was getting more and more socially unacceptable to say certain bigoted and racist things in public.  There is an attempt to make it more socially acceptable to do so (one of the factors surrounding so-called virtue signaling in the first place).  The whole "I tell it like it is" and "I'm just saying what everyone is thinking" schtick of Trump, for instance.

 

Beyond the negative aspect there's also the positive one.  Helping set a standard of decency and respect toward others helps normalize that behavior.  If more people stand up and say "X is good, we should do X more often", then it tends to happen that others might join in.  It's all part and parcel of humans being social animals at heart.

 

It's the whole point behind being a role model as well as "think globally, act locally" on just another level.

 

Is it a magic cure all?  Of course not.  Does it help?  Yes, I tend to think so.  Quite a bit, in fact.

 

===

 

Now all of the above being said, it is certainly true that some people are jerks when it comes to so-called virtue signaling. In that case, criticize them for acting like a jerk.  

 

But when it comes right down to it, I tend to think people saying they want a better world and want people to act nicer to each other should be encouraged, rather than discouraged, even if they're doing it for self serving ego-stroking reasons.  Hence my invocation of Tommy Lee Jones from The Fugitive. :)

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3 hours ago, Porthos said:

Two things.  If someone is acting like a condescending a-hole, don't be surprised if folks with impulse control issues respond in kind.  Even if the first person had a point or two to make.

 

Second...  Virtue Signaling, despite what you might think or have been told, is a GOOD thing.

 

Where do you think common values come from in the first place?  It's from people collectively standing up and saying "I like this way of acting" or "I don't like this way of acting".

 

Societal pressure is a real thing.  Call it peer pressure if you want, but that makes it no less real.  And so-called "virtue signaling" is part of society reinforcing (or establishing) certain values.  It's folks standing up and saying "Dude, don't act that way."

 

If people see other people act in a certain way, they are more likely TO act in that way as well, even if slightly.

 

Now right about now the rebuttal is "well they really don't care" or "they're just trying to get brownie points" or "they're just spouting meaningless platitudes".  To that I say, in my best Tommy Lee Jones voice: I don't care.

 

I really don't.  If folks are trying to make society better and re-enforce values I personally care about, I honestly do not give two shits if they're doing it for selfish means or just going through the motions.

 

How do you think society got to the point of "racism is bad, m'kay" in the first place?  People didn't all just wake up one morning and say, "Hey... That MLK fella we hated for years?  Maybe he had a point after all."

 

No, it was only after person after person after person stood up and said, "Hey, maybe we shouldn't act that way."

 

Virtue Signaling?  Need it now more than ever, IMO.

Well, I have a response to that but it kind of drifts off into other territory not really relevant to the discussion at hand so I won't go there.

 

I respect your opinion, as always, @Porthos. I hear you about how truly GOOD virtue signalling can be, and I agree. I just think there is a time and place for it. I think so much virtue signalling is just faux outrage. NDT's point, while admittedly being literal and kind of void of emotion, is a good one, yet people think this is a good time to rage back at him, especially when you're using compelling arguments like "Well FUCK YOU! There's your data!!". You know what? I just can't take that seriously. You want to really do good virtue signalling? Don't get your back up, sit down with someone on the other side of the debate (literally or figuratively) and talk about it. I mean, the guy was making a valid point about all the other unfortunate causes of death that happen to so many poor souls all the time. Why - WHY - would getting angry at that be your reaction??

 

Plus, like I said at the beginning of my post, so much of it is so fake. You see so many people on the left who supposedly stand for all these great causes, yet in my experience are some of the most deplorable people. It becomes about just fitting in with the crowd and signalling to everyone "Look at me! I'm telling this guy off because he's the deplorable and and I'm a good, virtuous member of society!!!"

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20 minutes ago, Porthos said:

It's not about gaining "all" virtue status though, but helping promote good things and dissuade bad things.  I drew an analogy to peer pressure and I think it works.  For a while it was getting more and more socially unacceptable to say certain bigoted and racist things in public.  There is an attempt to make it more socially acceptable to do so (one of the factors surrounding so-called virtue signaling in the first place).  The whole "I tell it like it is" and "I'm just saying what everyone is thinking" schtick of Trump, for instance.

No virtue signaling is mostly about gaining status (regardless if it does actually any good), I imagine what you mean you do not care if people gain status or not, you simply care about the logical side effect of helping the promotion of good things and dissuade bad things, peer pressure-peer reward being a nice and essential mechanism.

 

You gain a lot of status by going to a nice school, starting an hospital wing, making a movie like Do the right Think, achieving an high level of political level, having high achieving kids and so on.

 

If one day a similar level of status is attainable by just saying something on twitter and doing the opposite or nothing after, it is not necessarily a good way to setup incentive for a maximum creation of good in our societies. 

 

Quote

and I do stress some so I'm not talking about anyone here, of the people who use the term "virtue signal" as an huge insult are some of the biggest virtue signalers around. 

To the point that a public declaration of X being virtue signaling is almost in a trivial way also a form of virtue signaling. In fact about all not provoked human communication is about at the minimum value signaling, usually virtue signaling, that pretty much the only reason one someone would talk at all, for what else ?

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, JB33 said:

It becomes about just fitting in with the crowd and signalling to everyone "Look at me! I'm telling this guy off because he's the deplorable and and I'm a good, virtuous member of society!!!"

As I said to Barnack, I would classify some of the activity like that under "criticize someone for acting like a jerk". 

 

Sadly, and I think most of us who have spent much time on the internet realize pretty quickly, there are no shortage of jerks out there across all political/economic/social/hobby interest spectrums. 

Edited by Porthos

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21 minutes ago, Porthos said:

And that's the most ironic thing about all of this in that some, and I do stress some so I'm not talking about anyone here, of the people who use the term "virtue signal" as an huge insult are some of the biggest virtue signalers around.  When the term is stripped of its current usage that is, as noted by yourself in an earlier post.

 

It's much like how the term "NPC" is flung around by the very people who speak in nothing but cliches and buzzwords themselves.

 

 

It's not about gaining "all" virtue status though, but helping promote good things and dissuade bad things.  I drew an analogy to peer pressure and I think it works.  For a while it was getting more and more socially unacceptable to say certain bigoted and racist things in public.  There is an attempt to make it more socially acceptable to do so (one of the factors surrounding so-called virtue signaling in the first place).  The whole "I tell it like it is" and "I'm just saying what everyone is thinking" schtick of Trump, for instance.

 

Beyond the negative aspect there's also the positive one.  Helping set a standard of decency and respect toward others helps normalize that behavior.  If more people stand up and say "X is good, we should do X more often", then it tends to happen that others might join in.  It's all part and parcel of humans being social animals at heart.

 

It's the whole point behind being a role model as well as "think globally, act locally" on just another level.

 

Is it a magic cure all?  Of course not.  Does it help?  Yes, I tend to think so.  Quite a bit, in fact.

 

===

 

Now all of the above being said, it is certainly true that some people are jerks when it comes to so-called virtue signaling. In that case, criticize them for acting like a jerk.  

 

But when it comes right down to it, I tend to think people saying they want a better world and want people to act nicer to each other should be encouraged, rather than discouraged, even if they're doing it for self serving ego-stroking reasons.  Hence my invocation of Tommy Lee Jones from The Fugitive. :)

I somewhat agree, but...the real world has to matter more than the virtual world...aka, we're better off putting down our phones, and getting out and doing...always...

 

I could count the number of times each day that folks just don't notice the world around them, so they can't interact with it and actually start making change that one might want to see, b/c they are "busy" trying to change the whole world virtually.

 

Case in point...I was at the dentist last week.  A parapalegic (in his 40's - looked like a cop or former military, but I didn't ask) tried to get in the door by himself, and was failing and about to seriously hurt himself, but didn't want to ask for help.  I'm in a waiting room full of folks watching this b/c I leave my phone off when I'm around people...no one got up from the waiting room to help but me...and an assistant came from the billing room exit to get behind him, so he wouldn't tip over (which he was in the process of doing)- did I immediately yank the guy in?  No, it was obvious he didn't really want someone to do this for him.  So, I grabbed the door and let him know I could help.  Eventually, I had his bag and the door, and had a chair he could use to prop himself back in the wheelchair...and he made it safely in after 10 minutes, his way, but with the help he needed to make it happen safely.

 

He didn't thank me (although neither was he rude - he just kept going about his day), but I didn't need it...guy obviously has a tougher life than I do, and I'm sure it was a little embarrassing to him to need two women to help him out of the jam he got himself into (by not asking someone to roll him in from the get go - note to self - door weather jambs are not handicap friendly, nor are easily closeable doors)...

 

Now, maybe I could have helped save the culture and the world by being on my phone and tweeting to a few bad thoughts last week during that appointment wait...and maybe that's what some folks were doing...but I think the world was probably helped more b/c I didn't...

 

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10 hours ago, Avatree said:

I'm really kicking myself, I only made it two weeks before relapse last night, was trying to go through whole of August drug free, its freaking 3 days into the month and i've failed, useless

relapse stories are the worst to hear about.  it's like a child updating you on potty training.  best to dry out, smoke weed and get all paranoid and curl up into a ball and live with anger and look at stuff and exercise.

there is nothing going on out there, it's just culture is still perky.  everyone would be jealous wanting to see each other and keep up with each other.  gotta find your way around it, and take over your reputation by being a skilled animal expert and giving political and anti-religious speeches.

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4 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

But he's doing none of that.  At best he's being glib in minimizing tragedy in a superficial way.  At worst...

 

Well, at worst, he's being Neil "I'm smarter than the rest of you put together even if it isn't my field of expertise" deGrasse Tyson.  And that's plenty bad enough.

if Neil is getting those kind of reactions, then i don't think he spoke enough about it.

again, it seems like those reactions are from people that can't be talked to.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, 2010s Painkiller Race said:

if Neil is getting those kind of reactions, then i don't think he spoke enough about it.

again, it seems like those reactions are from people that can't be talked to.

these people need help though!  this is important. 

Shrek isn't important though, is it?  it doesn't shove on the boundaries

 

- have fun then......  talking about it. -

 

sure as soon as you give back that oxygen you stole/suck out of the room

 

😐

Edited by 2010s Painkiller Race

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4 hours ago, 2010s Painkiller Race said:

relapse stories are the worst to hear about.  it's like a child updating you on potty training.  best to dry out, smoke weed and get all paranoid and curl up into a ball and live with anger and look at stuff and exercise.

there is nothing going on out there, it's just culture is still perky.  everyone would be jealous wanting to see each other and keep up with each other.  gotta find your way around it, and take over your reputation by being a skilled animal expert and giving political and anti-religious speeches.

I don't like smoking weed although yesterday I was thinking about it since probably would be more relaxing.

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@CJohn Benfica x Sporting did a whopping 22.5% / 46.6% result, despite being a lopsided squash and having parallel transmission on SportTV. The Tour of Portugal also hit 22% share. You would think that RTP1's result would have been better than 20.3%, but it wasn't. RTP just bombs on Sundays. Still, phenomenal result for their standards.

 

On SIC, 15.5% was their total. The Farmer Wants A Wife did not bomb as expected. It did 8.9% / 17.5%. For a "best of the season" episode that went against a massive football game, could've been way worse. Just For Laughs premiered to 8% / 19% starting at nearly 11PM and also facing a little of the game-related broadcast, which is impressive. Vida Selvagem was the highlight, though. 7.9% rating and 28.2% SHARE :ohmygod:  And Primeiro Jornal was the 2nd most watched show of the day, with 9.2% / 29.1% :ohmygod: :ohmygod: :ohmygod: Their afternoon was also solid, with Fama Show and Fast & Furious: Tokyo Drift doing pretty decently. A catastrophic 14.8% share for Jornal da Noite was one of the culprits for a not higher result.

 

TVI had a not too good 13.8%. Somos Portugal did okay, 5.2% / 16.9%. They probably had a decent morning too. But the news broadcasts and Your Face Sounds Familiar were rough, as, share-wise, only Jornal da Uma did better than 15% (15.5%). Jornal das 8 sank just under 14% (13.9%) and YFSF did 14.6%.

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Little Mermaid mania is about to be in full force from Disney.

 

 

 

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