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Classic Conversation Thread | Black Lives Matter | #StopAsianHate | Free Palestine

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10 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

What happened tho?

There was another attack in the US and its Trump's fault again I think. You know, the guy who's no longer in power

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The recent awful attacks against Asian Americans here in the US is a byproduct of Trump attempting to turn this country into The Divided States of America for the past four years. Even with him gone, we're unfortunately gonna be dealing with the ghost of his disastrous administration for a long time to come (as well as the depressing realization of just how broken this country really is). 

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Plz excuse my ignorance but when has Trump attacked Asian communities or individuals? Apart from criticising "chiyna".

 

I think social media and millennial/GenZ's pushing of identity politics is what has created division. The idea that everyone is different based on their nationality, skin colour, sexuality, etc. and it's "Us v Them", this is what encourages people to hate each other.

 

Mass shootings have only really escalated in the last decade or so I think? In the 70s, 80s, 90s etc you guys in America did not have anywhere near the level of shootings and hate crimes that happen today. And this awful trend did not start during the Trump presidency, but during Obama presidency. It's very easy to just blame Trump for everything bad in America but I don't think it is true, or useful, to say. The problems run much deeper and are far more complex than that.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Avatree
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I'd also add that years of anti-Chinese propaganda doesn't help. I mean look at this shit:

5g4ro5sxopn61.jpg

 

I get that China has its own problems but this is blatantly fucking racist shit perpetrated by the media and it's been happening for a long, long time, and of course this kind of shit affects all Asians because Americans thinks Asia is a monolith.

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4 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I'd also add that years of anti-Chinese propaganda doesn't help. I mean look at this shit:

5g4ro5sxopn61.jpg

 

I get that China has its own problems but this is blatantly fucking racist shit perpetrated by the media and it's been happening for a long, long time, and of course this kind of shit affects all Asians because Americans thinks Asia is a monolith.

How is that "blatantly racist"? China is the only remaining communist power in the world. It's the largest, richest, most powerful nation, and yet it still has elements of dictatorship and tyranny; it has concentration camps; it has a State that controls its media and its corporations. China is extremely powerful and has a massive impact on the US (along with the rest of the world). Those aren't "rAcISt LiEs" that's just the reality.

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Just now, Avatree said:

How is that "blatantly racist"? China is the only remaining communist power in the world. It's the largest, richest, most powerful nation, and yet it still has elements of dictatorship and tyranny; it has concentration camps; it has a State that controls its media and its corporations. China is extremely powerful and has a massive impact on the US (along with the rest of the world). Those aren't "rAcISt LiEs" that's just the reality.

The imagery used there is literally racist "Fu Manchu" type shit. I really don't care if China is the most powerful country, they aren't any worse than the US and the reality is far more complex than "China bad", "America good" and you know that. The only reason (like every other systematic racist attack made by the US) the US is propagating this is because China becoming so powerful is hurting them. 

 

You can go on blame identity politics and the Gen Z but you're just going to sound like a dimwit (sorry if that sounds harsh but that's probably the most nonsensical shit I've heard today).

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I didn't even say America was good, but the suggestion that China is "no worse than the US" just shows a complete lack of awareness. Yes I may be wrong that identity politics create division, that's my opinion but whatever. 

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37 minutes ago, Avatree said:

Plz excuse my ignorance but when has Trump attacked Asian communities or individuals? Apart from criticising "chiyna".

 

I think social media and millennial/GenZ's pushing of identity politics is what has created division. The idea that everyone is different based on their nationality, skin colour, sexuality, etc. and it's "Us v Them", this is what encourages people to hate each other.

 

Mass shootings have only really escalated in the last decade or so I think? In the 70s, 80s, 90s etc you guys in America did not have anywhere near the level of shootings and hate crimes that happen today. And this awful trend did not start during the Trump presidency, but during Obama presidency. It's very easy to just blame Trump for everything bad in America but I don't think it is true, or useful, to say. The problems run much deeper and are far more complex than that.

 

 

 

 

"Kung flu" comes to mind. And it makes little sense to me to say that "Gen Z" or "identity politics" causes people to be racist. Like if racial tensions increased during the Obama presidency, likely that was because there were racist people who were viscerally angry that a black man had been elected president. 

35 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I'd also add that years of anti-Chinese propaganda doesn't help. I mean look at this shit:

5g4ro5sxopn61.jpg

 

I get that China has its own problems but this is blatantly fucking racist shit perpetrated by the media and it's been happening for a long, long time, and of course this kind of shit affects all Asians because Americans thinks Asia is a monolith.

However, this is not "anti-Chinese" but anti-Chinese government. And well-earned by them, I might add. And btw while the USA is full of issues, "China is no worse than the US" is just blatantly untrue.

Edited by Menor
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57 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I'd also add that years of anti-Chinese propaganda doesn't help. I mean look at this shit:

5g4ro5sxopn61.jpg

 

I get that China has its own problems but this is blatantly fucking racist shit perpetrated by the media and it's been happening for a long, long time, and of course this kind of shit affects all Asians because Americans thinks Asia is a monolith.

I remember following The Economist and yes they are always perpetrating divide. They know headlines like that cause quite the stir and traffic through their comments section.

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35 minutes ago, Avatree said:

I didn't even say America was good, but the suggestion that China is "no worse than the US" just shows a complete lack of awareness. Yes I may be wrong that identity politics create division, that's my opinion but whatever. 

A complete lack of awareness of what lmao? There are downsides and upsides to both countries and I'm not bothered to get into global politics atm. And anyways regardless of our political views, Americans are in no danger of being attacked by the Chinese, but the American media and governement keep propagating these racist, stereotypical images and messages and then they wonder what's the root cause of these attacks. These messages are literally designed to create fear and hate amongst common folk.

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6 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

A complete lack of awareness of what lmao? There are downsides and upsides to both countries and I'm not bothered to get into global politics atm. And anyways regardless of our political views, Americans are in no danger of being attacked by the Chinese, but the American media and governement keep propagating these racist, stereotypical images and messages and then they wonder what's the root cause of these attacks. These messages are literally designed to create fear and hate amongst common folk.

It doesn't have to be a danger of being "attacked" to write a negative headline about a government. Maybe people don't like the actions nor the values of the Chinese government. 

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1 hour ago, Menor said:

However, this is not "anti-Chinese" but anti-Chinese government. And well-earned by them, I might add. And btw while the USA is full of issues, "China is no worse than the US" is just blatantly untrue.

I don't see how that's untrue (before people tell me China is worse because of Ughyur concentration camps, let me tell you about the millions of minority communities America has destroyed in the name of imperialism) and anyways, the articles above specifically are saying that the Chinese are a threat to American values. The implications of these headlines and articles are far beyond just that the government is bad.

 

Quote

It doesn't have to be a danger of being "attacked" to write a negative headline about a government. Maybe people don't like the actions nor the values of the Chinese government. 

There's a difference between writing a negative headline and trying to instill fear within people through sensationalism and putting them alongside incredibly racist images.

Edited by lorddemaxus
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5 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

I don't see how that's untrue (before people tell me China is worse because of Ughyur concentration camps, let me tell you about the millions of minority communities America has destroyed in the name of imperialism) and anyways, the articles above specifically are saying that the Chinese are a threat to American values. The implications of these headlines and articles are far beyond just that the government is bad.

 

There's a difference between writing a negative headline and trying to instill fear within people through sensationalism.

"Has destroyed", but I'm talking about right now. What is America doing right now that is worse than those camps? And the Chinese government is a threat to American values. The CCP's values are quite opposed to American values and they are definitely trying to spread said values, and have quite a lot of economic influence to do so. So that is not untrue either.

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16 minutes ago, Menor said:

"Has destroyed", but I'm talking about right now. What is America doing right now that is worse than those camps? And the Chinese government is a threat to American values. The CCP's values are quite opposed to American values and they are definitely trying to spread said values, and have quite a lot of economic influence to do so. So that is not untrue either.

You do realise those communities are still suffering right and America is still systematically oppressing them? And America is still erasing tons of people through their overseas military intervention. Anyways, I don't really care about this contest about which country is worse and has nothing to do with the points I'm making, which is specifically about the images which are very, very clear racist and the sensationalist headlines. The image of a Chinese dragon looming over American university students is not saying anything about the Chinese government. You think someone see this disgusting image and thinks about the Chinese governement?: EwsvE28UcAQJHTe?format=jpg&name=small

 

By your logic Trump also attacked the Chinese government specifically and so has no blame in this too. 

Edited by lorddemaxus
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7 minutes ago, lorddemaxus said:

You do realise those communities are still suffering right and America is still systematically oppressing them? And America is still erasing tons of people through their overseas military intervention. Anyways, I don't really care about this contest about which country is worse and has nothing to do with the points I'm making, which is specifically about the images which are very, very clear racist and the sensationalist headlines. The image of a Chinese dragon looming over American university students is not saying anything about the Chinese government. You think someone see this disgusting image and thinks about the Chinese governement?: EwsvE28UcAQJHTe?format=jpg&name=small

 

By your logic Trump also attacked the Chinese government specifically and so has no blame in this too. 

Ok, I grant your point about the images. I don't think the headlines are wrong but the images are sensationalist and some of them racist for sure. 

Edited by Menor
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In happy news, while I can't seem to get a Covid vaccine, I had a really awesome 3 month follow up appointment today with zero progression in my cancer:).  That was AWESOME news...now, to be fair, I've been working on a pristine clean, low inflammatory diet around my 2 food allergies and 21 miles/week in walks - 3 miles daily (and then any steps I do - I don't count those, so while genes get some credit, I think I get some, too:).  I mean, I even cold turkeyed decaf diet soda last fall, which yes, I have heard about why I ever drank that - to which I now say I don't:)...

 

But, it should make for a good summer.  I'm now booking vacations for when I think my spouse and I (and my oldest) will have had the vaccine (and heck, it may be Vegas, since if I can buck a cancer trend, maybe it's my year for Vegas, too, especially since I've never been - has to be better than 2019 and 2020 for me:)...

 

PS - Pretty soon, I'm gonna fit my military uniform from 20 years ago again...and not b/c I'm cancer weak, but 2020 and now 2021 have helped me get back in the former best shape I ever was, when I was in my early 20s:)...

Edited by TwoMisfits
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1 hour ago, TwoMisfits said:

In happy news, while I can't seem to get a Covid vaccine, I had a really awesome 3 month follow up appointment today with zero progression in my cancer:).  That was AWESOME news...now, to be fair, I've been working on a pristine clean, low inflammatory diet around my 2 food allergies and 21 miles/week in walks - 3 miles daily (and then any steps I do - I don't count those, so while genes get some credit, I think I get some, too:).  I mean, I even cold turkeyed decaf diet soda last fall, which yes, I have heard about why I ever drank that - to which I now say I don't:)...

 

But, it should make for a good summer.  I'm now booking vacations for when I think my spouse and I (and my oldest) will have had the vaccine (and heck, it may be Vegas, since if I can buck a cancer trend, maybe it's my year for Vegas, too, especially since I've never been - has to be better than 2019 and 2020 for me:)...

 

PS - Pretty soon, I'm gonna fit my military uniform from 20 years ago again...and not b/c I'm cancer weak, but 2020 and now 2021 have helped me get back in the former best shape I ever was, when I was in my early 20s:)...


Congrats, I hope you continue to have wonderful news on that front. 👏👏👏

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4 hours ago, Avatree said:

The idea that everyone is different based on their nationality, skin colour, sexuality, etc. and it's "Us v Them", this is what encourages people to hate each other.

No I'm quite sure it's xenophobia and resentment of minority groups having the same rights they do is what encourages white male mass-murderers to hate their minority victims.

 

4 hours ago, Avatree said:

In the 70s, 80s, 90s etc you guys in America did not have anywhere near the level of shootings and hate crimes that happen today. And this awful trend did not start during the Trump presidency, but during Obama presidency.

The number of hate crime victims in America was steadily declining for much of the Obama presidency (reaching a 20-year low in 2014) before having the biggest spike since 9/11 in 2017.

Edited by Jake Gittes
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